Since I get a relatively high number of comments that are tangential to the articles, I'd like to try to move those parts of the conversation elsewhere. Thus, I'm setting up an open thread. I'll have to see how it will be received.
In short, it you think anything you're going to write is "off topic" to the current post, but still related to pickup, women, gender politics and the other topics I discuss on this blog, then please leave a comment to the most recent Open Thread, such like this one. Just post below.
Thank you.
We should address the hypnotic aspects of seduction.
ReplyDeleteSure. I'll do that right after my re-appraisal of Mystery Method.
DeleteShhh, zip it.
DeleteIf feminists find out about power of hypnosis in seduction they might lobby to criminalize it, or even worse, use it on us.
What!?
DeleteReappraisal? You mean a reassessment?
ReplyDeleteSadly, irony doesn't always translate well in print.
DeleteNo, I think he may have a point. No way are people dumb enough to pay money for it, so his advertising must have some kind of subliminal messages and voodoo witchcraft involved.
DeleteToo bad that you're still associating hypnosis with speed seduction and R Jeffries. By doing that, you're associating the BMW brand with bicycles.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't joking when I was mentioning "We should address the hypnotic aspects of seduction." You should read a good book on hypnosis and you'll see that you're doing hypnosis even though you don't know it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of very bad books on the subject of hypnosis. I'd recommend you to read the book of Jeff Zeig, "The Induction of Hypnosis" (http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Hypnosis-Ericksonian-Elicitation-Approach/dp/1932248676)
You're doing hypnosis when you're telling a girl a story, or an anecdote, ..., and what you're saying has an emotional effect on her. Why? Because:
1 - her attention is focused on you
2 - she's open and responsive to what you're saying
3 - she's experiencing a change in her body by living what you're saying
4 - she's experiencing a partial dissociation
Those elements are what we want to elicit when we're doing a hypnotic induction.
Forget speed seduction, because Jeffries, by associating hypnosis with his canned patterns, gave a bad press to hypnosis which is something very useful when you're communicating with someone. (As a college teacher, I use conversational hypnosis when I'm teaching).
if the girl expriences all those things except for number 3 chances she is already attracted and this hypno crap losses the point losses its purpose, by the way your cant change biology with words mother fucker this is for number 3.
Deleteand what the fuck number 4 means? my exprience hypnosis doesnt work on anyone
and once female attracted to you, they will fuck you anyway, if she isnt attracted you wont get number 1 and 2. so its useless. just a trick for "magic" show.
by the way a desire to have sex with a guy isnt emotion. to quote alek novy.
DeleteWith regard to the "hypnosis" & "reappraisal"-bit ;) … I'm currently having a blast in the clubs of my city & but I do remember how I had to struggle 10 years ago. I was totally clueless at that time and through some bad fortune gradually got in touch with all that "game" shit in 2004 (DavidD, Mystery, "LoveSystems", SS) … now I didn't get immersed into each of them as deeply as others, but even the mediocre amount of exposure was sufficient to puzzle my mind for some years to come… until I started to disregard this mental crap & finally experienced edifying results on my own. Stumbling upon Aaron's stuff & Alek Nov's brilliantly vitriolic addenda confirmed my suspicion against all that "game" shit and strengthened my resolve, that I was on the right path. Nowadays I'm a different person certainly also because of Sleazy & Novy.
ReplyDeleteLong story short, I just wanted to put some due emphasis on the fact (and I remember Alek Novy having had his say on it as well) that the active de-programming process to finally get all this game-contamination out of your system, can be a long and arduous one. It certainly was for me. Had someone informed me at age 16 about all which I know today (through my own experience, but also through Sleazy's & Novy's writing) or so, I cannot imagine, how tremendously cool this might have been: less to no "one-itis", natural male confidence, relaxation, less embarrassment, less anger, less frustration etc. pp.
Btw, I'm 32 now, but chicks often guess my age between 25 - 29, and of course who am I to ever disagree…!? *LOL*
@marco polo: Yep, obviously like many guys, you've been brainwashed to believe that when somebody mentions the word hypnosis, it automatically means speed seduction, mystery method and deangelo crap. When will you stop associating hypnosis and all the benefits it gives with canned patterns, routines and pickup lines, and realize that when you're applying "natural" principles of seduction, without knowing it, you're applying principles of hypnosis? Knowing what principles of hypnosis you're unconsciously applying can make you more effective.
DeleteWell, if the chick is intere$ted in the guy's dough and tends to overlook some other shortcomings of the dude in question, then you can certainly speak of a level of self-hypnosis (or delusion) to be present on the chick's part.
DeleteAnd if there's physical attraction, it's most certainly hypnotizing as well to some girls as well. ;)
But what I'd really like to see to completely win me over, would be e.g. to have 2 -3 girls, who (for whatever reason) would be rather uninterested in me, voluntarily walk over to me, give me a french kiss and quickly abduct me into a dark corner to blow me right there without any substantial interference or substantial active participation on my part (except for smiling and being open towards them) and after that have a meaningful common convo over philosophical and/or political topics. Would be really neat to make that happen with the help of hypnosis…
I was like you Marco, falling for all the bullshit. I actually thought when I pulled a girl it was because of my "game". I had always taken care of myself and it didn't clue in that women actually thought I was hot to begin with. I could never understand the LMR concept when I was "gaming". I never encountered it very often and figured my transition to "bedroom game" must have been really good or something.
DeleteI never experienced "LMR", once I intuitively got a hold of the basic concepts and exploited the opportunities with girls who liked me. Everything became clear in the first moments of interaction or once I really escalated. From there on it was smooth sailing, provided I didn't bore her too much and quickly found a place to engage in further frollicking. I still found/find most women boring, but at least with those who like me, it's pretty likely that I will get to fuck them, so I an at least get off.
DeleteI still feel, the looks- and chemistry aspect is sort of sad in a way. Cuz just in hindsight, there were so many girls, whom I liked, found hot and would have loved to kiss & fuck, but they just didn't like me enough for that to happen. Whenever and at whichever stage of an interaction I encounter real resistance I know it's basically over. Winning over a girl against that sense of uneasiness on her part is shitty and pretty useless anyway. I dislike manipulating people and if girls don't like me, so be it. Some at least respect me substantially more for not forcing them towards anything, not causing them feelings of guilt and also not acting it out negatively on them (and why should I?). It's good to know, that there are things you simply cannot change and that this doesn't "mean" anything in particular – that you don't need to accuse or shame anyone incl. yourself.
Still, … if there really were a "magic" line or a "magic" wand to make those particular women posthoumously naturally fall for me, I think I might wanna test it and maybe would even use it. ;)
@lazylife: reading your post, it's hard to communicate with somebody as uneducated as you seem to be. Educate yourself more and then come back here and comment intelligently my original post on hypnosis.
ReplyDeleteNice ad hominem dude! Just show him who's the boss here!
DeleteMore like ad amazon. Gotta read more books if you think Game errr Hypnosis don't work.
DeleteSeriously the whole point of this blog is that you cannot create attraction by walking or talking different. You don't need to read books about hypnosis to make this criticism.
Even though we know a man's level of success with women is primarily indicative of his baseline physical attractiveness, it would still be nice to run a thorough experiment proving this once and for all so all PUA bullshiters can cease to exist. watch the video below:
ReplyDelete"Falling in Love With a Perfect Stranger"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fx4DVYBf8k
"Can two strangers really fall in love by asking each other 36 psychologist-approved questions and staring into each other's eyes for four minutes straight?"
LOL, well at least one commentator gets it: "I also feel like there has to be some sort of physical attraction there as well. It should be "falling in love with a perfect stranger you're physically attracted to".
@ Anonymous: It's not just "a perfect stranger", but a "beautiful stranger". LOL
DeleteLady Madonna should know more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD5phTXGN_0
(P. S.: personally I never really liked her "beauty", I'd rather root for Austin/Mike Myer's sense of extravaganza ;)
You need to post about Justin Wayne again. It's quite funny that he now has this new servile, "wing-man" named "Bruce Wayne" that just fawns over Justin and in his videos. What a phony, he just nods at every perfect tip his black master says.
ReplyDeleteAnd when they "pick up" women, he always helps out by taking the uglier ones. lol
This Justin Wayne guy is lying through his teeth about how he gets laid, you can tell by the way he talks. Very slow speech is a dead give away.
RSD Tyler sounds like he's lying when he talks about his past, I picked up on it since I've been gaining my social skills lol. It just sounds off, weird.
DeleteI studied hypnosis for a few years, I have dozens of physical books, I've studied alongside people who worked with Milton Erickson (whom NLP was modeled after) and it's mostly bullshit. In the time it takes to learn all this crap, you could have hit the gym.
ReplyDeleteAt the end, all this paraphernalia about seduction: hypnosis, NLP, routines, "inner game", affirmations, techniques, etcetera, is nothing more than a fucking placebo, or at least it is if you're only an average guy with a somewhat sane mind but only afflicted by a (natural) lack of confidence, attibuted to an encounter with the unknown (for those guys with 0 experience with women).
ReplyDeleteIs a placebo because (without trying to sound like those scamers) you actually have all the necessary things to be attractive to women, but you don't know how to use them or you have neglected them (for example bad looks). And the only thing that PUA does is pushing yo to look for girls, and give you a thing in which you put your faith and gave you confidence. When you realize that not all women are harpies ready to rip your guts, PUA stops being useful and you just start to going your own way.
Of course, this doesn't applies if you're clinically depressed or you have some other mental illness.
But we as men don't really need PUA. We just need to be aware that we are just rough diamonds, just awaiting to be polished. Some guys do realize this and get success, some others don't and stagnate.
@ anonymous: Hey dude, that's really a great comment!
DeleteAaron, what your thoughts on A voice for men these days? I see now Paul is doing interviews with Roosh? I know you posted a few times on it before. Seems like the site is going really down hill
ReplyDeleteI'm drowning in work in real life, so I don't have the time to pay much attention to AVfM. I do have drafts of a few articles on my computer, though, so I intend to keep writing for that site, even though in rather infrequent intervals. I didn't know about that Roosh interview.
DeleteI do think that AVfM is less focused than it used to be, but it seems that is the price you have to pay if you want to appeal to a wider audience.
This is interesting. I just read a couple of your posts on AVfM Aaron. I think they are well written. You make your point well known without coming off as misogynistic. Your post on LMR was spot on in my opinion. I didn't even know you had written on the site before. To be honest, I didn't even know much about it until today. I find for the most part, the tone is pretty hateful towards women. Not gonna lie, not a big fan of the site. Just my opinion though. I couldn't tell if I was on AFvM, Roosh V's website, or returnofkings.
DeleteThe fact that Elam had Roosh interviewed was too much for me. I won't be back to the site. Elam is the same kind of slime as Roosh V in my eyes. I'm glad Elam is taking some heat for it. He deserves it.
I just noticed that "Black pill" site today. Seems like a good recommendation. I like his no-nonsense approach to things. Lol at referring to manosphere's as "Manuresphere's"
Krauser has a meltdown that alternates between uncharacteristic lucidity and characteristic narcissistic rage. Choice quotes from a thread devoted to unpopular opinions include
ReplyDelete- Most of you are either liars or bullshitters when it comes to your stories about money or girls.
- For every 5 Americans I meet, 4 are aggressively fronting a delusional self-image.
- I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of PUAs / players I've met who can consistently bang girls better-looking than they are. Almost everyone else is leveraging something else - looks, money, a scene "in", SEA - or else just plain lying.
- Most men shouldn't attempt the player's lifestyle. It's not in alignment with what they really want in life. Don't be seduced by the war stories.
- Asians in asia are disgusting. Chinese are evil-minded savages. Thais are high-estrogren bum-boys. Western culture mostly civilises them.
- I really wish the Serbs had wiped out the Kosovans.
- Any time I play Civilisation, I always ignore the Win conditions and just build a nuke to drop on Pakistan at the earliest opportunity.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-21413-post-960948.html#pid960948
This is very unrelated to anything so I posted it here, but man I can't stop laughing at the avatar on sluthate called "MrsValizadeh"
ReplyDeleteCheck this out:
http://sluthate.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64828
I think women like that are likely the "norm" for Roosh when he's picking up.
He really is a disgusting piece of shit. Aside from horrible "game" advice, he's a terrible human being.
It's disgusting what he says about MGTOW in his interview on AVFM. Although I am not MGTOW, I respect it.
Roosh says MGTOW are weak. I find the funny thing about this is the fact that Roosh can barely get laid himself, and.....he's trying. I thought I read somewhere that he got laid 5 times TOTAL one year. Wow, really impressive for a guy that does nothing other than try to pickup women. Keyword, TRY
How can he not get laid in a city the size of Toronto? Just how bad is his "game"? He's too dumb to realize women are just grossed out by him.
Show a hot girl a pic of him and watch how quick she goes, "Ewwwww"
There's been so many beauties on sluthate lately. I have to give credit where credit is due, and user "Master Yoda" posted a real gem recently.
ReplyDeletehttp://sluthate.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65051
I literally fell over I was laughing so hard when I got on to the site.
The best quote by far,
"Whether she’s the hottest girl in your city… or a well-known actress… there’s one thing you can count on: within seconds of meeting Alex, she wants to tear his clothes off".
Ha, "Richard La Ruina". Aka "Gambler". Poor guy.
DeleteAnd why on earth did he choose this "Ruina" alias name, which so closely resembles the noun "ruin"?? We shall never now…
Indeed, "ruina" means "ruin" in spanish, lol.
DeleteI actually bought Gambler's book off amazon, and thought it was great at the time, but also noticed it was full of stuff to learn and that girls were hard to pick up. But I still fell for the bullshit.
DeleteHe is just one great marketer, and lets be honest he is decent looking guy (As well as most of the people that work with him). so that gave him such an advantage to sell his crap
cani
I truly believe that most PUA's, aside from being con men, are likely not terrible human beings. For the most part that is.
DeleteHowever, does anyone else feel as though manosphere bloggers are not only AWFUL human beings, they're also VERY DANGEROUS for young men?
Take Matt Forney for example, he posted this on his blog a couple days ago, I couldn't even listen to it, it's disgusting. The comments below are also terrible.
http://mattforney.com/the-matt-forney-show-episode-74-virgins-going-their-own-way/
One thing that really stood out to me was a comment posted by Matt himself,
"I have over 100,000 unique visitors per month, 21% of whom are age 18-24"
Google "Matt Forney" and you'll see just how hunky he really is. He actually gives fitness and dating advice. Ummm, perhaps he's not so qualified to do either? I have no idea what guys aged 18-24 see in him. You have a guy that's AT LEAST 50 lbs overweight recommending supplements? I also have a VERY hard time believing he gets laid without paying for it. He's always bitching about US women being the problem, completely oblivious to the fact that women are grossed out by him. As if some sexy chick in her early 20's with a million sexual options wants anything to do with this disgusting slob! Matt apparently lives in a fantasy world.
There's a club about a 5 minute walk from my place, and it's loaded with hot, stuck up white girls, mainly aged 19-25. I'd pay to watch Matt run some "game" lol.
I suppose I should't harp on manosphere bloggers so much on here. The more I look into them though, the more they disgust me.
I seen a money quote a couple days ago about a manosphere blogger,
"Seriously, have you ever met anyone who claimed to be an “alpha male” who wasn’t a massive asshole?"
How right he is!
Okay guys, I have a question: what is the "80/20 rule"? I believe I saw it in one of Sleazy's posts or in one of his books, he said that he used it when he was in the LSE. I've Google it and honestly I can't still grasp it's full meaning. It's has real results in life or is just hype from HR managers? Because I also remember reading it in some seduction blogs.
ReplyDeleteGoogle ia your friend:
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm
The Pareto Principle can hardly be classified as management bullshit. Just try it yourself. Also, the vast majority of online seduction materials do not relate to the Pareto Principle at all. Just to give you one example: indiscriminately approaching women is a waste of time. My books Minimal Game and Club Game are is strongly influenced by the Pareto Principle, by the way, as one of the guiding ideas is to focus on what gets you the best results, and don't waste your time on anything else like environments outside your niche, or lukewarm women.
I do believe the pareto principle, is a correlation study, that compared the weatlh of the population of Italy (i think). But it was also seen in all sorts of areas. But to extrapolate it to every area in life or the world is not the greatest thing to do.
ReplyDeleteBut the idea that a small set of things of the whole (ie in maths/logic talk, the subset) is more important than the rest. This is seeing in teaching a curriculum, are only a few topics which are really important in study maths, which spending a lot of time on will help learn the rest (ie timestables, number bonds,four operations -written and mental strategies, fractions and negative numbers) where as some dont even need to be studied (ie tessellations).
The same is true with "game", we can boil it down to a few things which will give you the best results. ie foundations, niche, warm approaches etc.
But to say that this is the 20% is a bit too accurate, and more of a metaphor, to suggest that a few things are more important than the rest in achieving stuff.
cani
I think it's enough to say to focus on the few things that really matter. Let's take working out: a lot of guys do isolated exercises, but would get much farther if they did the 'big three', i.e. dead lifts, squats, bench press. So, the Pareto Principle is great for keeping you focussed. It does go too far to compile a list and focus on exactly 20% of it, or to think that you can neglect everything else, but as a general guiding principle I found it to be very helpful.
DeleteAaron,
ReplyDeleteThere is a guy, Matthew Hussey, who used to work with GAMBLER in london. He has now turned his attention to women, and helping them keep their man (obvisouly they do not need to get them). HE has a book out (normal price), been on tour, had a massive seminar at the O2 arena, been given testimonial by famous people, his seminar is seen as a confidence professional development course (but obviously not general confidnece but with making you confident with getting your wants with your boyfriend) by a huge high end department store....see here
http://www.gettheguy.co.uk/
But he is still using the same tricks used by PUAs, long sales page, videos which promise some technique but off nothing but a sales pitch etc etc etc.
I have read the book, and it is so similar to the general PUA book, lots of tips, lots ideas on how to create attraction, how to keep him by doing xyz etc.
I think this is relevant to this discussion, as women have a price to achieve what they want (money, being looked after, shopping etc etc) and they do sometimes anything to get it. Here women are offering money to get what they want, by using manipulation, to get a man to commit (ie marry etc)...but the problem is that they are not as hot or young as the girls on tagthesponser.com, possibly as a last chance to capture a guy or get preganant and have some one to look after them or share the duties, or just to meet societies/family expectations...but without paying with sex or outrageous shit (being pissed on or acting like a prostitute).
I found this out, as an ex went to this show, and it was paid for by her work (which I cannot believe, but it was true)...I was always weary about seminars and gurus that say they can improve someones confidence after one big seminar, as you pointed out in debunking, that you get bootcamp high...obviously she was trying to get me to commit more ( i never showed her my friends, or wanted to define the relationship), was jealous of any mention of female friends and she was really into me...so after reading about him, and what he was I knew it was basically over, as she would try and manipulate me with ultimatums....and low and behold, she did, it took her ages to come up with the courage to say it, but it happenend (but she could not withold the only thing that she could bargain with ie sex) so it was not a great bargaining chip, yet I knew this was only a matter of time.
Any Sleazy, I would say to have a look at this guy, even a few of his videso.
One positive note about this guy, is he does suggest to women that witholding sex will never work.
As usual has a lot of videos, which are similar in tone to PUA stuff
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9HGzFGt7BLmWDqooUbWGBg
cani
Thanks for posting this. I did not know about this guy. Maybe women are indeed the next big target for those scammers. Note that guys primarily want sex, and if they can't attract women, they can always pay for sex. But what would a woman do who can't get a guy, or get any guy to commit? She will have a hard time finding a guy to fuck her for money, even though there are gigolos, and she'll have an even harder time getting some guy. Very rarely do I see unattractive women with guys from third-world countries, so the mail order bride thing works in reverse as well. It's just that they have much fewer options.
DeleteTalking about Fifty shades of "neigh" – a friend just made me aware of this, it's hilarious!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/10979082/Frustrated-husband-creates-spreadsheet-of-wifes-excuses-for-not-having-sex-with-him.html
So a sexually-frustrated husband compiled a spreadsheet charting a whole month’s worth of his wife’s excuses for refusing to have sex with him, including “I might be getting sick” and “I still don’t feel 100%”.
For a whole month the poor husband penned down every single response from his other half when he asked her for intimacy, which elicited replies such as “I feel gross” and “I’m watching the show”, which he claims was a re-run of a "Friends" episode.
The guy then collated the information and put it into an excel document before emailing it to his wife as she arrived at an airport ahead of a 10-day business trip. Excuses also include "I'm exhausted", "I need a shower" (didn't shower until next morning), "I'm trying to watch the movie" (fell asleep 15 min later) along with a few cases of not feeling too well and a number of ‘non-verbals’.
Shocked at the email, the wife tried to get in touch with her husband but found he had cut contact with her. So in the end, she decided to share her husband's endeavour with users of the social networking site Reddit by uploading THE ENTIRE SPREADSHEET (!!!!!!), .
Talking about "la comedie humaine" – this is certainly a big slice of it!
Btw: even though the guy certainly missed some natural sexual aggression and apparently never "overstepped the line", I still like his rational approach of putting all the data into a spreadsheet. I do find that there's a quiet beauty to this… ROTFL!!!!!
So the bare facts could be summed up as:
- The man had been making (allegedly mostly verbal) advances to his wife.
- She responded with paper thin excuses and did absolutely nothing to let him know what he could do to restore proper marital relations, i. e. making her fulfill her duty of satisfying him sexually.
- This had continued for enough time for him to become so exasperated that he petulantly prepared a spreadsheet of her excuses.
- When called out on her behaviour her response was to embarrass and emasculate him by posting the intimate details of their marital problems online, asking for anonymous "counseling" and for the entire world to see.
It really doesn't get any better…