I have a question for Alek Novy but ofc anyone can pitch in...
As someone who advocates social circle game, how do you suggest an introvert with niche interests starts getting regular access to hot women that are also personally compatible?
I'm looking for a relationship and I really suck at clubbing (don't really have it in me to approach and I'm not good looking enough I think). Problem is I mostly have male friends in nerdy circles that rarely have any women involved - and if there are any, they are usually unavailable due to already having a BF or simply not being attracted to me.
This question is the equivalent of "how does a poor, badly dressed, fat slob get hot women?" Of course, the answer is "he won't". Instead fix your life where it is lacking. If you have no money, get some money. If you dress poorly, fix your wardrobe, and if you're overweight, then pick up some kind of exercise that gets you into shape. Similarly, if your social circle does not allow you to meet women, then you maybe want to consider seeking out activities that you enjoy and which will make it easier for you to meet members of the opposite sex.
Of course, all of this requires some work and undermines the "you are special" message the average person in the Western world has been exposed all their life. No, unlike anybody else, you should not have to make an effort. Instead, hot women should just come to you, even if you spend your spare time locked up in your room playing World of Warcraft or Dota.
What do you think? Let me know in the comments below!
(Also, if you’ve got a comment that is off-topic or only tangentially related to this article, then please post in the most recent Open Thread. Thank you.)
Aaron, you wouldn't wonder so much about this statement if you knew that "smashthestate" is actually "Welptydoo" from your forum who you banned some years ago. ;)
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't know if I can fit into the "nerdy" label, but as a 25 years old virgin, I think I can leave my 2 cents.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, I have met a lot of hot women since I was a teenager. I spent high school in a "high-end" school in my homeplace, and I was surrounded by lots of beautiful girls. But I had (and still have) self esteem issues that clouded my perception. In hindsight, I realized that some girls actually hit on me and flirted me, but because I was too much in my head, I didn't seen it. This pattern has repeated many times.
After high school, I spent 2 years without studying, because I had a lot of stress because of my psychological issues. I spent a lot of time in internet, particularly in (you can laugh now) Naruto forums, arguing and hating (haha), but I met a lot of people, and (what was more surprising) a lot of girls ended confessing their feelings for me. I didn't gave it any importance, but I was amused by that.
In 2010, I started college, and in 2012, I started to lose weight. I still was a socially awkward guy, but I was an attractive socially awkward guy. So, I received more attention by girls.
In 2014 I had my first date (and I fucked it up, I didn't escalate), and my first kiss (I was drunk). I had another date with another girl (again, I pussied out and didn't escalate), and then a friend told me this girl wanted SO BAD to fuck me.
And then at tuesday of past week (I don't remember if was dec. 16) I had the biggest fuck up ever with the hottest girl I ever dated. Goddamn, we even agreed to have sex if "the moment" happened (what hurt me more is that she had sex with one of her friends and she wanted to have sex with me too but I royally fucked it up). Interestingly, she met me in Facebook and outright of the bat started to hit on me heavily. And she met me when I was hating local commies (hehehe) on a Facebook page (seems that hating brings the most confident part of me).
tl;dr Yes, you can attract women even if you are shy, socially awkward or nerdy, but only if you're an attractive guy. But being attractive means fucking shit if you never escalate. Is better to be an 6/10 who never doubts when it's time to start sexual escalation, than being a 7/10 (or 8/10) but being a total pussy when it comes to touch a girl. I think Johnny (from Johnny's Journey) can relate.
The most important things are:
-Being attractive (basic)
-Being interesting (maybe this is an optional thing)
-Being confident in escalation (CORE THING OF THE LIST)
(Sorry, I forgot thid) Also, as Aaron says: yes, is important to take care of your image. I was very overweight at my teenage days, and that really hurt my self image. Taking care of your appearance is not a matter of vanity. Is an statement of self respect.
ReplyDeleteDon't get a job to impress girls or pay them dinners. Get a job so you can accomplish something and you can feel proud with yourself.
Don't lose weight to look "hot". Lose weight as a favor to your body.
Don't take a hobby just because you want to meet tons of "hot chicks". Take it because it makes you happy, take it because you ENJOY it.
In a few words: STOP worrying about girls (and others) and start thinking about the best FOR YOU.
Well I was just asking for ideas as to which interesting activities I could join to find women who I might find personally compatible and/or ways to build a wide social circle from my starting point. Iirc Alek was also a big introvert but managed to build a wide social circle from which he could meet tons of women. I'm not sure I can pull it off considering my personality and failure in clubs though :/
ReplyDeleteVolunteer at an animal shelter. It's 90% women.
DeleteTake up Crossfit, again, majority are women.
I actually knew a very nerdy guy, fanatic gamer and big Star Wars fan, whom I met as a late teen, that was also pretty decent with girls. He did get at least 1 or 2 new girlfriends every year, which is a great accomplishment for a nerd. Girls from our common social circle would give him positive attention and respect. They even tried to impress him by showing some curiosity over his nerd hobbies.
ReplyDeleteWas he handsome? No. He actually looked like a nerd, both close and from distance: bad posture and clothing, glasses, traditional haircut... When talking with him, sometimes I found myself in doubt about his mental sanity, because of his fucked up voice tone. When he laughed, I had no more doubts: he was retarded, for sure!
But two things he wasn't is a complete social retard and a fat slob. At the local music school where I met him, he was the best young pianist and keyboardist. He was studying Law at a local college and applying for a driver's license. His parents were from the city upper-middle class. He was the oldest and tallest guy in our small group, teacher excepted. And last not least, he didn't give a damn to what you thought about his looks or hobbies; quite to the contrary, he was open, assertive and inviting in taking about, say, the Star Wars DVDs and games.
I hope this personal anecdote might bring some kind of learning. Or maybe, he was just a lucky motherfucker.
No, he wasn't lucky. If I recall Seduction Myth, every women has different standards of what they label as "physicaly attractive". The 8/10 of one can be the 6/10 or even 5/10 of another. Also, confidence is gold. Insecurity is the most powerful reppelent of women. Even if you're an hypothetical 10/10, you'd still be a virgin if you had 0 confidence to approach and escalate with women. EVEN if they approach you, you must escalate, they won't undress and fuck you all by themselves. Even the sluttiest, horniest girl you ever met won't do that, because is expected that YOU, as a man, must do such thing.
DeleteInCels are just lazy, insecure men.
Thanks for sharing that. So he mostly met these girls at the music school and college?
ReplyDeleteYou do point out he was tall, but the social status + confidence/assertiveness you mention is a big deal too I think. Not sure how I can get status, obviously I'm not gonna start playing an instrument or engage any activity just to 'achieve status' lol.
I've also always been a bit of a pussy in social situations. I mean I'm much better than a few years back but I'm average at best, and my lack of social energy/quietness doesn't help.
Article is bit off the point. He is asking for suggestions for 'nerdy' activities in which he can meet like-minded women. Its not like he is asking for secret techniques which will attract hot women to his basement while playing World of Warcraft.
ReplyDeleteBasically by definition you will not find hot women in genuinely nerdy circles.
DeleteSo what's the strategy here? Pretend you're not a nerd?
DeleteNo, just expand your social interests and circles.
Delete"So what's the strategy here? Pretend you're not a nerd?"
DeleteNo, no, no! "That damn bitch has to look past the XBox." (http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/wanted_with_angelina_jolie_is.html)
Buy a copy of "Wanted" and enjoy your day! I bet you liked the latest "Star Wars" movie, don't you?
Not really, it was shit
DeleteThe fellow's question reminds of one time in Karate when a new student asked the instructor how to become a black belt. The instructor said, do three things-buy a uniform, join a good school and then practice for ten years. It is painfully obvious, but was not an easy, low effort thing to attempt.
ReplyDeleteLikewise, the obvious response to this fellow is to find social hobbies where there a lot of women, and in the interim work on your fundamentals -looks, wardrobe, finances, and try to become socially aware of indications of interest from women. But, this will likely take some time, effort, and is hard to pull off when you are doing marathon World of Warcraft sessions.
I mean, seriously, how many nerd activities have a substantive number of women involved, average looking or otherwise? I guess if you could find a few of these hobbies, then making yourself one of the more attractive nerds might not take as much effort, but you should not be under a lot of illusions about how hot the girls are going to be......
It occured to me from Sleazy's last post that I should clarify a bit.
DeleteI don't necessarily look for a girl that plays video games or is a star wars nerd or whatever. What I mean by personally compatible is being able to hang with a girl and enjoy her company. I guess it comes down to her energy levels, having an easy going attitude and also her having a passion. The last thing specifically means there's some character depth and it gives you more interesting things to talk about since she could extrapolate concepts/skills from the field she understands well to other stuff.
Now I'm still a n00b and the above may be completely wrong, I'm not really sure what kind of girl I'd really enjoy being with since I'm not that experienced and I might run into some girls that I didn't expect I'd hit it off with based on some other factors.
In short I'm open to women from all kinds of backgrounds, you never know what might turn out. Just pisses me off that it seems like most of em are rather shallow. Then again maybe that's not a problem, I just have to learn how to be more playful and expect less from them?
By the way, I'm not even playing video games lately, but I'm delving into stuff like coding, statistics and trying to earn some money... so the problem remains.
Ok I have a confession to make. I just googled "nerd vs geek". It seems I have never been a "nerd", so if I described myself that way I misspoke.
ReplyDeleteI have never had a nerdy hobby/interest in my life. I've never even watched a single star wars movie (no really, never seen em). In fact my entire life I have been drawn to activities and hobbies that are female-dominated. Including studying subjects that are 85% female.
I usually overemphasize how bad I was (still am) to make the point that is primarily a numbers game. So I might have thrown terms around like "mega nerd" or "mega geek". I have always been super asocial (still am, hate socializing), super introverted, zero ability to make small talk. My communication style is slightly autistic, no nuance, no subtlety, straight-to-the-point.
I got laid a lot by simply escalating and being direct. I can fake "charm" and "pleasantness", but its so unnatural for me that it feels like work... And even when I bragged about having a "charming" or "charismatic" period, it was forced. Not natural. Nowadays I only force myself to just greet everyone everywhere, introduce myself to their friends, and do at least 10-15 seconds of small talk. It's a compromise that leads to a lot of opportunities.
And I've still found that in terms of casual sex the ratio doesn't differ too much. Whether I invest 7 hours of "gaming" as the PUAs call it or 7 minutes of directness (soooooo... I find you bangable, wanna bang), same results (in social circle, friends of friends, friend of someone I said hi to somewhere).
So when I say don't use being an asocial geek/nerd as an excuse. It means don't accept PUA brainwashing that you need to know exactly what to say and have the exact body-language and voice tone and eye-contact etc. I was super awkward when I began, but I just escalated directly (skipping small talk)... and still got laid as much as the charismatic players in the same social circles. I made women uncomfortable and "creeped them out", but they still said yes. Whereas the charming player made her laugh out loud and show obvious signs she loves him. Still similar ratios. The charming player just gets more false positives that impress third parties.
Most of my lays have come from social circle, not cold approach. And again I've been fortunate that every hobby I have happens to involve tons of hot women. I did the math when I was starting out (crunched the math after the first 15 lays). I think the ratio came out like 1in7 chicks. In other words with me being super awkward, asocial, creepy-acting and "geeky" (not nerdy), all I did was ask girls for sex, and it worked on 1in7 chicks. And again that was with a super autistic "so you're bangable, wanna bang" conversation. No flirting, no small talk etc...
What do you do if all your interests are nerdy and attract no women? I haven't the slightest clue. It's like asking a tall person "how do I become tall". I've always naturally been drawn to "girly" activities. I never forced myself to adopt hobbies i dislike "coz chicks".
I do still want to eventually be able to pull-off an 'aaron sleazy' skillset. Its why I buy his books, and why I analyze stranger-approaching so much and want to master it (eventually, some day). I don't need to, but I want to.
DeleteI wish I could do what my best friend does (regularily pulls chicks into bathroom stalls, fingers chicks in clubs and knows exactly which chick to approach where and how).
My friend can walk into a club, know exactly which chick to approach, and be fingering her in minutes. I have to approach a LOT of chicks to have that happen. He doesn't, knows exactly which chick to go to and how.
Having friends like this is why I know stuff like this is possible and it's not Aaron making up stories on the internet. I see it regularly.
Obviously in stranger-approaching its a lot more important to be good at reading&sending signals (if you want decent returns). If you creep a girl out in social circle she still tolerates you long enough to hear the proposal. In cold approaches you can't do that.
Nice post man.
DeleteWell for some reason I remember you saying that sometime in the past you decided to build a wide social network from scratch, didn't know you always had access to women thanks to your hobbies/interests.
If you don't mind me asking, which activites do you partake in that have alot of women? Maybe I can broaden my horizons :P
I think I would like to be able to be charming and less autistic. Mainly because I often compare myself to other dudes, especially when they are very socially savvy. It must be fun to gain such social approval from women even if it doesn't ultimately lead to sex. Plus I prefer being smooth, I have an aversion to coming off as creepy :S Anyway what do you suggest, how and where can I practice this stuff? I'm not sure how to go about it really, it's not really a mechanical thing like learning statistics or coding. Right now I might be a decent 1on1 conversationalist with certain people, but this is mostly intellectual or intimate discussions, and never with women.
Hope others learn from these posts as well!
"I got laid a lot by simply escalating and being direct."
DeleteI deeply agree with you because the last (and biggest ever) fuck up I had with a girl was because I never escalated with her. Fuck, I didn't even touch her in the whole date. She was in my city for a few days for vacations, and we waited for MONTHS to meet. And the worst thing, WE AGREED TO HAD SEX IF THE MOMENT HAPPENED. This comming from a woman that has sex since she was 15 years old, and in a time span of 2 months she had sex with one man DAILY.
Even knowing all this, I didn't do anything because I thought (what a fool!) that she'd make the move, even when we went to a park alone after we ate pizza!
Still, I'm thankful for this. As I've learnt my lesson in a very painful way. Strike the iron while is hot.
smashtestate says: " didn't know you always had access to women thanks to your hobbies/interests." --->
DeleteThat's ironically enough how I discovered PUA. I was to afraid to go and act on these interests in groups. And when I did go and do it (whether it was joining psychology groups or yoga classes or art communities or or dance schools or design classes), chicks would hit on me left and right, and I couldn't even give them more than one-word answers and look them in the face.
The irony of all ironies is that I discovered PUA because I googled around to find out how to RESPOND to all the girls hitting ON ME. The only reason I asked "how do I approach chicks" is because I had chicks eye-fuck me at events with an "come talk to me" invites.
But then I got into PUA and it "hijacked" my goals. So I became this weird cold-approacher who hit on chicks in streets and clubs (mostly streets). My first hookups were actually not from social circle (pua hijacked my goals and convinced me cold approach is the only real thing).
YEARS later (after years of trying to make cold approaching not suck)... did I start investing in building a lifestyle... and then I got a laid a ton through social circle, a lot more easily than I had through cold. This is oddly enough when I did meet naturals who do what Aaron describes (effortless stranger pickup).
So this is what motivated me to again give the whole "bang strangers" thing a try. Even though I get more than my share through social circles, I'd still like to get at least a few years of experiences similar to what Aaron describes in his memoirs (and what I see my friends pull off).
Well, I am not a matchmaker, and I don't think Aaron or Alek is either. You may want to expand your horizons to join social groups where you can meet women, and then go from there.
ReplyDelete"In short I'm open to women from all kinds of backgrounds, you never know what might turn out."
ReplyDeleteI don't want to sound mean here but for someone who doesn't have a clue this shouldn't be your goal. Find a niche you like and where there are girls, join it and live the life. Go from there. Aaron has written extensively on this subject. Read that! In short: Girls from a social subgroup like boys of a social subgroup. If you're into goth girls for example, doing the PUA thing and donning a suit will wreck your chances. Joining a goth group, listening to the music, wearing the clothes and being at goth concerts will raise your chances. It's pretty simple if you think about it.
"Just pisses me off that it seems like most of em are rather shallow. Then again maybe that's not a problem, I just have to learn how to be more playful and expect less from them?"
Expect way less from girls. If you are above average intelligence and question (some) social norms most girls are painfully shallow and dumb. Solution: dumb yourself down, don't expect that they match you. But don't go full retard! Never go full retard.
Sure, it's just that I don't live in a city like Berlin where there are clearly defined niches. A nerdy niche would definitely fit me but that doesn't exactly exist here from what I can tell
DeleteYou should reconsider your opinion. Even in small towns niches exist, maybe not so pronounced. But let's assume it for a moment. Then taking up a hobby you like which includes a social element goes a long way.
DeleteBut quite frankly I'm getting the eerie feeling you don't want to change a bit. If that's the case it's pretty understandable but could you do to the polite thing then and not waste everyones time here?
Sci-fi and fantasy gaming groups that gather where I am always have women in them: Comic Cons, gaming events, and cosplay (sci-fi/fantasy) conventions.
ReplyDeleteThey're not super babes but there are a good number of reasonably good looking, not fat women in them. Nerd women don't play it up the way the sports bar ho does so you may have to be able to see underlying quality.
It only takes meeting one chick who likes you to know others to get contacts. Women are way more social and even if they're married or similar they don't really care about loyalty anymore. They'll have sex with you and if not with you and they like you they'll introduce you to their friends so they can hear about your freak.
what this poor man means is two things. For one, nerd girls (I know a bit of them) are either sitting at home all day, or disguising their nerdy behaviour and socializing pretending they're normal.
ReplyDeleteSecond and most important question of this guy is: how to get conversation flowing if you are tired of people by definition (introvert)? Introverts are usually extremely tired of small talk, sometimes after minute of it! While I am not introvert, I am not extravert either, so when I have the chance I isolate some subjects and talk 1on1. Still, alcohol dumbs me down enough to enjoy talking with anyone
a silly question.
Deletehow do you meet chicks who sit all day long in home?
you dont, but it sounds cool.
since they dont socialize, and i am not overly excited to socialize, so it sounds like a good match up.
but them being alone home all day means they dont meet anyone including you.
there goes my fantasy, but i am always more drawn to chicks, who dont have much friends, and dont socialize much(atleast
it doent look like it from first glance). this of course is separate of looks.
when i see chick who is hyper social, i get turned off.
except if she is super hot.
so the point is to socialize your favorite activities(thread).
but i find it that anxiety and picking what chicks to approach is a problem. alek way is possible, if you dont have any anxiety.
you can also go bang some prostitutes, it should give you anti anxiety training, and some basic reading insights.
but u will need to play the prostitutes game right.