That being said... most of the guys in the community are so zeroed down in terms of life skills, social skills and general ability to stand up for themselves that at the end of the day, when we started getting more serious about this & contemplated going pro, we were raised with the following dilemma:1) Should we help needy idiots who will bug the fuck out of us on questions that they should be able to figure out themselves?2) Is it really the fact that the customer market for this is filled with people who are A) Okay enough that they will get good enough without our help B) Belong to the first group whom we really, really do not want to spend the least amount of time with.So yeah. Reading reviews where jlaix spent the better part of the BC drunk or like this and knowing my local 'gurus' makes it easy to call anyone a moron who expects actual results from a bootcamp. But knowing the community and the people who fill it up... man, no wonder they charge so fucking much, for every normal person you have three or four people who need their hands held taking the bus downtown.
Monday, June 4, 2012
A PUA Instructor Tells What he Thinks of his Clients
There were some interesting responses to my re-post of XXX's review of a bootcamp he's taken with BradP. To my great surprise, a commercial PUA instructor chimed in and had this to say about his clients. I was not the only one who couldn't believe it:
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Give me your shattered, your broken, your introverts.
ReplyDeleteBC's are not what they need.
That was quite a poetic statement. It would have made a nice subtitle for this blog post.
Deletehey aaron, forgive the off topic question pls: what do you think of that weird heartiste subset of the pua community? i'm new to this but it's incredibly racist. are all puas that racist or is it just that specific subset of the community? Check out the comments to this thread
ReplyDeletehttp://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/justin-wayne-direct-and-indirect-street-game/
i also found this thread. http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-13425.html
are these attitudes common in the game community and heartiste is just the only one open about it? the other pua sites if find don't seem this way.
i ask because i read your debunking seduction community pdf and when listing all the faults of the seduction community nothing like this was mentioned. btw you and anti-pua johnny are doing good work.
Hey man,
Deletethanks for the comment and feedback!
I don't follow any other PUA blogs, and I never really found the energy to dig through Roissy/Heartiste's blog. I skimmed a few posts here and there, but I just can't stomach that stuff. It's just mental masturbation.
I am not particularly aware of racist tendencies. I do know, however, that a vocal minority tries to reframe sound advice as racism. For instance, there were people who called me a racist for telling white guys to avoid R'n'B clubs and rather hit on white girls. I am not surprised that Roissy is more vocal about those issues since his writing smacks of passive aggressiveness. Black men are just another welcome target.
Again, am I failing to come through, or are you not reading my posts?
ReplyDeleteI am NOT a commercial instructor. I am a PUA in Hungary who had the (dis)pleasure of getting close to the commercial industry and contemplated on starting my own business.
My posts were merely a reflection of my experiences. Yes, you do a good job at jabbing through the bullshit of mainstream PUA. What I MEANT to say was the fact that the industry is rotten to the core because the people who find it and funnel money into it, the clients, are more often than not people who should be doing more productive shit with their lives and bettering themselves in more organic ways than paying some dude to get them laid.
Honestly, I do not know how to take this. Your material and advice has helped me more than probably anything else on the market, and so far I had nothing but respect for you: but using me to further your campaign against the industry (of which, I repeat for the umpteenth time, I am NOT part of) is ridiculous.
But I guess the headline of "here's an experienced PUA's opinion of the community" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
I am sorry if you feel singled out. I am sure, though, that the mindset you describe is prevalent in the commercial seduction industry, i.e. people care about money first, and their client's well-being is hardly on their radar.
DeleteBut this whole ordeal portrays perfectly the other aspect of why I would really not want to touch this shit with a ten feet pole ever again. Shit gets nasty and vicious insanely fast REGARDLESS of what you do or your intentions are or were.
ReplyDeleteIn this local scene we have a guy who claims to be the best PUA in the country. He also claims to have laid over a thousand women. His field reports are erotic fiction at best. NO ONE has ever seen this guy make a SINGLE approach.
And yet again and again when coaching people (NOT for money but because we gave up our fucking free time to help some of the folks we saw on the forums), heaps of our advice was discarded by quoting the aforementioned master bullshitter.
So you tell me what should I think of a person who is perhaps not dumb by design, but would SUBMIT WILLINGLY to bullshit because it over promises and under delivers? So how the fuck do I help this guy when his question comes down to "How can I MAKE this and that girl like me?"
But apparently when I tell this guy to get his shit together, get over himself and drop that fucking privileged, needy attitude, all of a sudden I'm the bad guy and he goes and pays thousands of euros for a three day camp which is advertised as "20 pulls total!" (without clarifying that pulling does not mean fucking) because Master Guru Bullshit B is willing to take the money from this gullible fools.
But when I try to tackle them on the aspect of being a fool, I end up on Aaron Sleazy's front page as the glorified devil of the industry.
Because apparently if I take my time to give advice and help people get laid while calling them out on the very bullshit which is hindering them in nearly all aspects in life, well, then fuck me right?
Right. I'm done with this. Time's better wasted with women than bullshit like this.
The solution is easy:
Delete1) Don't make promises you can't deliver
2) Be upfront with guys interested in coaching
This means, concretely, turning down cash if you think the guy can't profit from it. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine a guy in his mid-40s emailed you and told you that you have to help him. He hasn't had sex in eight years, and he's just too desperate. His idea is apparently that after a one-on-one he'll bang 18-year-olds in the bathroom stalls in the club.
What does your average commercial PUA do? He'll gladly take the money, tell him that he's "so money", and that "everything will eventually fall in place if you keep pushing yourself." In other words, they give a rat's ass about him.
In comparison, what does a guy with conscience do? He'll tell him (not so bluntly, obviously), that he's got much bigger problems to worry about, and give him some pointers to turn his life around. I guess that's "stupid" from a business perspective, but integrity is a valuable personality trait. You better try to keep it.
What a prick haha
ReplyDeleteSleazy,what's your point?
ReplyDeleteSinn had rants about his students in the past,and a lot of ppl couldn't grasp why.But bootcamping with student who just won't learn can get anyone jaded and fed up at times.
I bet Sinn more than happily took their money. Yet, the next thing he does is turn around and bitch about their clients. How lovely.
DeleteAlpha male makes money from seudction/pickup market.Beta men are the consumer of their service.
ReplyDeleteGuys who go ask pick up for help is weak personal.Lion and zebra relationship.The guy who eat them and the guys who become their food.
The guy who took boot camp is very bottom of his life in terms of women and relationship side.What do your friends think if you tell them I went pick up boot camp for this weekend,they will just think "you are loser" even if they did not mention it.
Buy new cloth,or go hit the gym or focus on your work is much better than going for BC.
I wouldn't necessarily call PUA instructors "alphas", though.
Delete