The negative reaction Julien Blanc is experiencing is the societal equivalence of a girl rejecting a guy outright in a club. You’ve probably experienced chicks insulting guys who hit on them, or pushing them away. Such reactions should be extremely rare. Just speaking from my own experience, I can only recall one single instance where a girl openly showed her disapproval. As I quickly realised, she was drunk and pissed off at something. In fact, this was an instance of me merely being friendly and wanting to just make some small talk, without any ulterior motive. If anything, this taught me to only talk to girls when I was actually sexually interested in them.
As anybody who got laid at least a few times can hopefully confirm, girls really do want to get laid as well. It’s basically a matter of finding a girl who is into you and leaving the club with her. Old-style PUAs like Mystery advocated giving girls backhanded compliments, more deranged characters recommended insulting the girl, since in their twisted worldview this would make them more attracted to the “bad boy” you allegedly are. Yet, all of this is utter nonsense. Only very few women enjoy being treated badly. Most just won’t put up with such nonsense.
While a guy like Julien Blanc apparently assumes that you have to force yourself upon a woman, the reality is that if she’s into you, she’ll happily follow along. This reminds me of the “last minute resistance” bullshit Mystery, Style and all the others were constantly blabbing about. This is likewise nonsense. Once you’re back at your or her place, she normally can’t wait for you to put your cock in her. Otherwise you wouldn’t even have ended up in that situation with her.
So, what's the upshot of all this? It all leads back to the insight that seduction is mutual, and only happens when both want it. Some years ago plenty of people online took offence with this statement, while nowadays it's apparently "common sense" --- as if there never were any moronic gurus around. If she wants you, you only have to find a way to make it happen. On the other hand, if she is not interested in you, you could either waste a tremendous amount of money, time, and energy to make her realize what a great catch you are, and in at least 99.9% of cases you won't succeed anyway. Or, you do the smart thing and try finding some other girl who is interested in you.
Comments are gone. You seem to understand. Good.
ReplyDeleteWhat comments? There were no comments to this article yet.
DeleteI guess that's probably outside the range of the topics you usually discuss, but what about the massive media response? The twitter campains I witnessed expressed more about the state of society than any crotch-shoving pick up mysoginist ever could.
ReplyDelete"While a guy like Julien Blanc apparently assumes that you have to force yourself upon a woman, the reality is that if she’s into you, she’ll happily follow along."
ReplyDeleteSeems you're one of the few sane ones left, Aaron. Even formerly reliable guys no longer think like this.
Your buddy Alek Novy is singing a very different tune over at omega virgin's blog. Here's what he has to say
Women for the large part fall in love with and choose to reproduce with “alpha” guys who push past token resistance. (Most) women see men who ask for permission and who quit on token resistance as wimps and unworthy of reproducing with.”
http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/the-false-accusation-bandwagon-effect/#comment-17068
Hey feminist tard provocateur, the word "alphas" is in quotes. You pulled that shit out of context.
DeleteIf you're not familiar QUOTES like above are USED TO DISCREDIT a concept, not to accept or agree with it.
(The context was I was explaining how young boys in a feminist society may develop the belief that "alphas" "aholes" get the girls. I wasn't agreeing nor ever said that "alphas make women wet" or any of the bullshti this feminist troll is inventing. I was merely relating to how boys might develop this belief)
This happens as
a) society/feminists tell boys that "if you make a move at anything less than in your face super-enthusiastic signals, you are an ahole/thug/opressor"
b) and then boys go into the real world and notice that guys who do just that (what is defined as aholish) are the ones WHO ACTUALLY get laid the most.
THIS IS NOT to say that you need to be a "thug" to get laid. In fact, quite the opposite. It's dismantling the feminist idea that you're an ahole unless give up at the first delay or roadbump in the courting proces.
Flirting/courting has PLENTY of roadbumps, and its rarely perfectly smooth or magical. Accepting less than perfectly smooth escalations doesn't make you an ahole, nor an alpha, it just means you don't buy into feminist fairytales.
P.S - also retard, learn to differentiate and not conflate things
- You conflate "resistance" and "token resistance" (delays, games, not wanting to appear easy or let it happen too fast)
- You conflate "persistence" and "plowing" to make it seem like anything less than your feminist fantasy is the same as "plowing" as if there was nothing in between these extremes.
There's an anonymous below who made a great explanation and definition that even a tard like you could understand (if they wanted to).
Direct Link to comment: Right Here
I don't know the context of that comment, so your interpretation hinges on what Alek meant by 'token resistance'. First of all, in Julien's video you see real resistance, not token resistance. Second, one could interpret flirting as token resistance as well, since they normally don't hop on your cock right away.
ReplyDeleteRoger is a feminist troll who says women who are attracted to you throw themselves at you, women never play hard to get, always say exactly what they mean, and never offer token resistance. Apparently Roger can go from hello to bang in 5 minutes, because women never delay or slow down the process with token resistance EVER (that only happens to ugly guys). Roger bangs all interested girls in 5 minutes by his logic.
DeleteHe pretends to misunderstand anti-game and claim that all anti-gamers are really secretly gamers in hiding. He does this by twisting what people say, like he did with me.
Btw I answered him over at omega's blog, it was a long response, but it was precisely the same as you answered him:
You answered him: Second, one could interpret flirting as token resistance as well, since they normally don't hop on your cock right away.
The original context I WAS TALKING ABOUT is how FEMINISTS say that ANYTIME you make a move or approach without the woman giving 100000000% OVER THE TOP OVERT "take me now" signals, you are a rapist.
As we both know, this doesn't happen in the real world. But apparently roger goes from hello to banging a chick in 5 minutes.
MY CONTEXT WAS THAT SOCIETY and feminists TELL GUYS "Don't make a move unless you are a 10000000% certain she's interested, wait until she spells it out for you etc". Guys that follow this strategy spend years with few dates every few years.
We know that in real life guys only start getting laid at substantial levels only when they take SOME risk (i.e. move on less than 100% certainty). This troll somehow twisted that into me being the equivalent of Julian. On top of claiming women never delay men, and if they're attracted they automatically respond immediately.
And then he claimed that women throw themselves at him and approach him everywhere he goes and beg him for sex. Apparently this happens to everyone except ugly guys - no delays, no games, no resistance, all in 5 minutes from hello to sex.
(Most) women see men who ask for permission and who quit on token resistance as wimps and unworthy of reproducing with
DeleteIf roger wasn't an intellectually dishonest feminist troll, he'd know this out-of-context quote refers to most women frowning on the idea of "giving in too easily".
1) If you're gonna pretend that all experience doesn't prove that most women hate being asked for permission, look to the research. It's a scientific fact shown in every study on the subject that women are turned off by men asking for permission if they can be kissed. This is a **fact**.
2) If you're not be a virgin braggard contrarian online and get some sexual experience you will see that most women are turned off if you give up just because they delayed the sex or gave token resistance (i.e. the "I'm attracted, but try again later" thing)
3) It's a fact that most women don't jump on your cock the very first attempt you make, and they expect you to try more, put in more effort, battle through the games and persist past the "hard to get" crap, which depending on the women, this delay can last from hours to months.
4) Billions of articles and hundreds of bestsellers with tips for women on how to play hard to get APPARENTLY DON'T EXIST (because roger says all women throw themselves at you, and playing hard to get doesn't exist)...
According to Roger, playing hard to get (token resistance) was invented by ugly PUAs, I guess then cosmopolitan must be owned by PUAs.
Now Roger is either a exually inexperienced retard trying to be contrarian and play gotcha on the anti-game crowd... or a feminist troll / PUA shill trying to muddle things.
I've seen a couple of these guys like roger (most of them came from puahate)... It's this new type of troll who says that anything that's not 1000000% opposite of game, is really "game in disguise"
The most extreme forms were pua-hate members who said if you believe you can get laid, you are a PUA. If you believe that Aaron Sleazy can give you tips on how to get laid, well then "Aaron sleazy is a pua". Because only PUAs believe its possible to improve your ability to get laid. Everyone else believes you have to wait until a woman coincidentally jumps on your cock.
Alek, do you realize you now subscribe to the concept of "shit testing"?
DeleteNot so long ago you used to say that you can act as beta as you want if you're a girls type she'll be into you and make it easy for you.
Now apparently you have to display "alpha" qualities and try and avoid being seen as a "wimp" by girls.
Could've been written by Roosh or Heartiste.
I feel bad for you, man, I used to really admire your stark honesty and the way you mocked all the bullshit. You've changed.
Problem is all of us who visit these blogs and write about have a background of being not very good with women, you, myself, even Aaron Sleazy. No one wants to face the stark reality of their potential with women so if you're not getting the quality you want its because women are "resisting" and shit testing and blah blah blah. Reality is hard to face. Resistance and shit testing doesn't exist - its called SHE'S NOT INTO YOU.
AND YOU NEED TO GET OVER IT.
None of us are as hot or cool as we'd like, or we wouldn't be discussing this issue. And its hard to accept that, so we invent alibis.
Buddy, I used to not care about women for most of my life. Figuring out how to get them was pretty easy. Besides, based on how women reacted to me, I had a reputation as a ladies' man even when I was a virgin (among both men and women).
DeleteSome men are indeed more attractive than others and consequently have the potential, whether they live up to it is another issue, of banging higher quality pussy than the average Joe.
Ok, so you didn't care about them but you come from a background of note getting with lots of women, for whatever.
DeleteFrom your sane, utterly realistic willing to face limiations wirting about how to get women, I'm completely prepared to believe that you have always been attractive to women.
Alek Novy has admitted to being a nerd who was terrible with women at one point (I'm not mocking, there is nothing wrong with that). And I myself have always had positive reactions from women though I'm not GREAT looking but for a very long time bought into the "alpha" bullshit so had a hard time hooking up.
Once I started acting normal, for the past few years, its been pretty smooth sailing, but you need to accept who you ARE, and I mean utterly face the stark truth about yourself, and accept what you can get. I can't get the best, but I can get decent. If I didn't accept that, I'd go on about how you need to be alpha and other bullshit and how women resist etc.
I'm naturally a very friendly and "open" guy and do not have tension or conflict in my relations with women, for that reason, I believe.
So I don't buy into what alek is saying - it doesn't match my experience, and it rings payshcologicaly false.
Alek has said some amazing and excellent things over the years, and even the best of us can backslide, but people need to be called out on their shit
Now apparently you have to display "alpha" qualities and try and avoid being seen as a "wimp" by girls.
DeleteTROLL: I am asking you for the TENTH TIME, DO NOT PUT WORDS IN my mouth or SAY I HAVE SAID THINGS I NEVER SAID.
I did not FUCKING SAY THAT FUCKING "women shit test you to see if you are alpha or a wimp"
I SAID THAT Women do not jump on your cock the moment you show interest ----> THIS IS A FACT. THERE ARE billions of articles and THOUSANDS OF BOOKS teaching women how to play hard to get.
THAT WOMEN require you to go through some token resistance is a FACT known to ANYONE who is not an online virgin smartass.
That there is a difference BETWEEN this GENERAL fact and the pua stuff "shit testing, filtering for alpha" - is OBVIOUS to anyone who has EVEN A GRAM of intellectual honesty, which is obvious you do not. You are NOT arguing in good faith.
YOU ARE LITERALLY saying that women will jump on your cock the moment they're interested - and anyone who doesn't believe this MUST THEREFORE automatically believe roosh-julien style PUA.
PLEASE GO OUT AND GET SOME EXPERIENCE AND STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS
Please actually GET at least 50 of your theoretical kisses where girls approach you and kiss you first and ask you to go to their house to bang (all frictionless and without games and token resistance)
Second, on alphas and taking it out of CONTEXT
As I just responded to you on omega's, the comment you TOOK OUT OF CONTEXT used "alpha" IN FUCKING QUOTES. Do you know what QUOTES are used for!?!? It doesn't mean you're VALIDATING a concept, it means the fucking EXACT opposite.
I was merely relating how someone DEVELOPS the belief that "girls go for the alphas " "girls go for aholes" BELIEF. That's why they're in QUOTES you smartass.
So I don't buy into what alek is saying - it doesn't match my experience, and it rings payshcologicaly false.
DeleteEXCEPT I NEVER SAID THE THINGS YOU SAID I SAID. You TWIST what I said, and the say you're "calling out my shit"
YOU LITERALLY PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH, or USE a DIFFERENT DEFINITION for something.
Ok, so we figured out that your definition of "token resistance" and "persistance" is DIFFERENT than mine.
BUT YOU NEVER ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION. You simply used YOUR DEFINITION, and then call that "calling me out" ON SOMETHING I NEVER said, because you used YOUR OWN DEFINITIONS FOR THOSE WORDS.
Believing that women will come up to you if they are interested is exactly what led Elliott Rogers to believe he was doomed with girls and kill people, so if he's a feminist troll, he's not really smart.
ReplyDeleteThat is true. Both Elliot Rodgers and other guys driven to insanity go crazy precisely because of this gas-lighting bullshit.
Delete(Btw most just kill themselves or develop depression... as most don't have a mental illness like that guy did)
Feminists (like our very own troll rodger) gaslight young boys by telling them that "If a girl is interested, she will jump on your cock, and it will happen without any friction, any resistance, it will just auto-magically happen if you're not an evil person", "If girls don't throw themselves at you, them you must be faulty somehow, you must be ugly, you must be defunct".
I bet Elliot Rodgers had thousands of girls interested in him, its just that they never showed interest in him the way he was lied by society that it would happen. (Someone on youtube showed his pictures to girls and they said he was cute).
I bet thousands of girls flicked hairs around him, "accidentally" hovered in his vicinity, when in conversation hinted at vague shit that should indicate potential interest. He was never told this is how girls show interest though.
There are so many boys wasting their early 20s in depression believing they must be defunct somehow, since "no girl is showing them interest" (despite the fact there might be thousands of girls who HAVE shown interest in him, in the cowardly responsibility avoiding ways girls show interest that is...).
Eye contact and a big smile in a bar, dancing up against you with eye contact and a smile. Grabbing your arm. Saying "hi". I simply cannot understand how anyone can miss these signs or think they are "subtle". Those are extremely common things women do.
DeleteIf you walk into a bar, get a drink, and try and make eye contact with various girls and get nothing for like an hour, sorry, bud, women aren't being "subtle". The women in that bar are not into you. Get over it.
Its as simple as pie. Stop complicating shit. 80% of women who are into you will smile and make eye contact repeatedly if you make eye contact with them. Even stare. Nothing subtle about it. 20% might indeed be subtle - like stand close to you without looking, etc.
If you can't accept that and have to invent arguments about how women are sooo "subtle" in their signs of interest (since a smile and eye contact are just so hard to interpret), then go for it - I don't want to ruin your fantasies. Whatever you need to protect your ego.
As for "resistance", if you're getting it, show some self-respect and back off. 80% of women who like you will make it EASY for you and meet you half way. No girl will "respect" you for persisting (why would they? It shows desperation). Sure, you gotta initiate, but if she is "resisting", back away.
This is how a normal, sane, encounter with an interested woman goes 80% of the time (and who cares about the nutcases or the terminally shy). You walk into a bar and sit down and order a drink. You casually glance around you checking out the girls searching for eye contact. Eventually, fairly soon, an interested girl locks eyes with you. You smile (or she smiles), then she smiles back. You walk over and talk to her. If you are hitting it off, you move in a bit, she moves in a bit, you touch a bit, she touches a bit, and on until whatever you guys feel like doing. Sometimes its even quicker than that. And guess what, if she isn't comfortable at that point with, say, kssing or some other move, but is still friendly, once you back off (not "persist", jesus), very often SHE will then initiate a kiss, once she's comfortable.
There is nothing complicated or difficult about it, there is no "resistance" (in 80% of cases with sane girls), as Aaron Sleazy says "seduction is MUTUAL". She's gotta want it.
All you as a man have to do is 1)express interest though looks, eye contact, etc 2) approach (and sometimes they approach)
Anything else is just guys trying to ego-protect.
Roger, have you ever fucked a woman without paying for it? What you write is utter drivel. Women who show the kinds of signals you mention are the exception. By the way, no woman has ever grabbed my arm, and I'm reasonably certain that I've had sex with more women than the vast majority of men. Likewise, that a woman would be the first to say "hi" to you rarely ever happens. You get some glances, tits brushed against your chest, stepped on your toes, asked for the time, asked for a cigarette or a lighter, and so on and so forth.
DeleteSeriously, dude, go out and try picking up chicks on your own, and you'll realize that what you write has no grounding in reality. Of all the things you say, the statement that women initiate a kiss is the most absurd. Even if she desperately wants it, you'll have to go first in all but very few exceptions, and those are akin to her "marking" you, i.e. she will kiss you briefly on the lips to signal to other women that you are hers now (and to tell you that you've got no balls). I've witnessed such behavior from more mature women who seemed to be in the 30+ range, and invariably with guys who didn't seem to be particularly dominant.
Wait, wait, wait - you are honestly telling me that eye contacts and smiles are not common if she is into you? Even eye contact? Forget about smiles for a moment, even prolonged eye contact (if she is into you)?
DeleteIf you're being honest about this, I simply don't know what to say.
Yes, girls grabbing your arm or approaching are REL
ATIVELY rare (1-3 times/month going out twice a week), but smiles and eye contact?
Maybe. You know what, maybe. I'm a very friendly and open guy so maybe girls feel less "intimidated" by me (the opposite of tough alpha, lol). OK, so maybe guys who are more "close off" need to be more proactive, could be.
I doubt it. I think any guy who goes and SEEKS eye contact, if girls are into him, will FIND it. Maybe he has to smile first. But that's it.
Something isn't right here.
Hey Sleazy
DeleteAccording to Roger's feminist troll logic, you Sleazy are a PUA. You just wrote a book about how to get laid in bars, and all you have to do is take roger's advice, anything that takes more time to explain is really "pua ins disguise".
Some responses I made to this troll over at Omega's
Its only when a guy gets older and more mature does he realize what a load of horseshit popular culture has sold him [being dominant and cool], and all he has to do is absolutely normal and himself, and yes, even polite, friendly,
ALL HE HAS TO DO!?!?!? IF YOU DO THESE THINGS women will JUMP ON YOUR COCK and DO THE MOVES? You won't have to do any of the 100 or so moves expected of you in-between hello and sex?
IF YOU ARE "just normal" your dick will slide into her by MAGIC?!?! AND SHE WILL NOT PLAY hard to get and there will be no games to overcome?!??!?!
--> Listen dude, I HAVE gone through the phase you're going through... it's a compensation and I want to help you
Usually after you REALIZE that you've over-complicated this getting women thing, you go to the other extreme and OVERSIMPLIFY it. You go into this ideology where you accept the other extreme that says "all you have to be is normal, polite and friendly, and if women are interested they will jump on your cock"
THIS IS JUST AS extreme as the pua crap, except it's the OPPOSITE extreme and you are COMPENSATING for having fallen for the first (pua) extreme.
If being NORMAL was all it took to get women jumping on your cock as if you were a celebrity, THE AVERAGE partner count wouldn't be ONLY 4-7 partners in a LIFETIME depending on country (that's distorted by the outliers, so it's really just 2-5 per LIFETIME)
YOU ARE NOW IN A FEMINIST THEORY EXTREME (just be normal and polite and women will do all the work, never play games, you won't have to do any work, women will make it all super easy for you and approach you and jump on your cock) - and you INTERPRET anything above this feminist extreme as being "pua".
The QUICKER you overcome this phase roger, the quicker you will actually lose your virginity. I went through the same phase of going the opposite extreme to PUA overcomplication. Most guys I know who left PUA did so too. It's just a compensation phase. It's the pendulum swinging.
YOU ARE in an EXTREME overcompensation. I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOU TIME. You are OVERSIMPLIFYING and you will look back to this period of time with regret as wasted time.
I was going around ranting all you had to do was be normal, and wait for in your face signals - I WAS YOU (and I also didn't get laid in that period). IT's a COMPENSATION, WAKE UP, go out, get some experience, get laid at least a dozen times and come back to us, ok? kthxbai
80% of women who are into you will smile and make eye contact repeatedly if you make eye contact with them. Even stare. Nothing subtle about it.
DeleteAND THIS is how we know you are a virgin who's entire model of reality is based on feminist theory, and not real world experience. EIGHTY PERCENT?!?!?!?
I wish I lived on your fantasy planet. It's a nice feminist-invented fantasy. It really is. If I was a billionaire and I could pay to make the world like your fantasy, I WOULD, really. 80% of the women who are interested in you SPELL IT OUT blatantly!?!?!?
I'd give up half of everything I own for this fantasy world where you MERELY have to look at a girl, and she will stare you down if she is interested (80% of the time).
HECK it WOULD END all rejection. This feminist fantasy would be PARADISE for men if it existed. Heck, you could discover 80% of the women who want to bang you, just by LOOKING in their direction.
Now, I hooked up with 10 girls in the past year (strangers, but not cold approach, as we're in a niche where its normal to approach other members of the niche).
Except for one "rebel hippy girl" the other nine PROACTIVELY hid their interest in me and expected me to show interest dozens of times before they admitted it back in any way shape or form.
They proactively AVOIDED eye-contact with me, only occasionally "by accident" passing by me and dropping a cellphone or finding the accidental urge to fix their hair right where I stand, or accidentally glancing a few times (over the shoulder) in my direction for 0,5 seconds over a 4 hour party.
When I blatantly showed interest in them, even verbalizing it, they would not respond with clear affirmative interest back and would have "indifferent" responses like "i might or might not be interested back". Of course, after they finally eventually confirmed interest back in me and ended the games, it opened the floodgates where they developed a crush on me and would text me 10 times a day, demand a commited relationship etc etc.
EIGHTY FUCKING PERCENT!?!?!?
BRO, SERIOUSLY bro. YOU ARE COMPENSATING. I realize that when you realized PUA is shit (with its emphasis on pestering even women who make it clear they don't want to be approached) - YOU SWUNG TO THE OTHER EXTREME... you are now in feminist fantasy land.
Do me favor, leave the house and do this experiment
- Go clubbing with 10-15-20 of your single-attractive female friends*.
- I mean 2-3 at a time, not all 15 in one night
- Notice how many men your friend stares at BLATANTLY during the the night
(I've actually done this as I spent the past 3 years probably clubbing with probably 60-70 different hotties, i'm part of a niche where 90% are girls and you get to go out with lots of hotties and observe how they act when out at parties or clubs)
BY YOUR OWN FEMINIST stats, 80% of your friends should do this. So if you do this experiment with 15 hottie friends, you'll witness 12 of them STARING guys down in the club.
NOW, WHY DOESN'T this happen? PERHAPS BECAUSE YOUR THEORY IS COMPLETE fantasy!?!? If you do this experiment, you would find ZERO of your friends stare ANYONE down at any club or party. (1 out of 10 girls might stare guys down at a party that's more social circley in nature).
Or perhaps all 500-1000 guys in the club are "ugly"? Is that more likely or that you've adopted a fantasy theory that has no basis in reality "80% of women will stare you down if interested" - What the screaming fuck virgin theory is that all about?
*-> I realize you are don't actually have single-hot female friends to go clubbing with, but that should tell you something - you need to go out and get real world experience and results before playing a smart-ass online.
If you walk into a bar, get a drink, and try and make eye contact with various girls and get nothing for like an hour, sorry, bud, women aren't being "subtle". The women in that bar are not into you. Get over it.
DeleteSo why do they fuck us and fall in love with us if they're not into us you virgin smartass? By your logic all these women that have crushes on me (or other men), fall in love with us and beg us for a commited relationship but are not into us. WHY are they not into us (despite crushing on us, falling in love with us, and texting us 10 times a day after the first hook up). Because they didn't smile and stare at us when we walked into the room!!!! Because they waited for us to say hello and smile first and chat them up for 10 minutes before they started smiling back.
What absurd fantasy feminist world do you live in? By your fantasy theory, 95% of women are fucking, crushing on and obsessing over men they're not interested in... seeing that most women end up dating and hooking up with men they never "stared and smiled at" first.
MOST WOMEN EXPECT YOU TO SHOW "risky INTEREST" FIRST before they show any back. For a woman TO STARE YOU DOWN with a huge smile is the EQUIVALENT of a guy confidently approaching a group of 10 hotties surrounded by guys. MOST WOMEN have ANXIETY at the notion of doing it.
YOUR THEORY LITERALLY says that only the top 1% most confident women on the planet are interested, and all other women find you ugly. WHAT DRUGS ARE YOU ON MATE?!?!?!
ARE ALL guys in a party/club ugly? BECAUSE NOBODY GETS these stares you speak of on a regular basis
- Here's a HINT - I've HUNG OUT WITH MALE CELEBRITIES in my country, including the "mister" in my country. That's the equivalent of "miss". I.e guy voted the most handsome in the country.
NOT EVEN THESE CELEBRITIES get these stares in the club or get approached much. LEAVE THE FREAKING HOUSE AND TEST YOUR FEMINIST FANTASIES before you spout them online.
Go into an ACTUAL CLUB, STAND AROUND AND JUST OBSERVE. **COUNT** HOW MANY "girls staring at guys with a huge smile" you observe you fantasy riddled freak. When you note that you spend the entire NIGHT witnessing ZERO (or a few) of these fantasy "stares with a huge smile", ask yourself, ARE ALL 500 guys in that club "ugly". Are all 300 of the women lesbians?
Or perhaps your keyboard jockey virgin feminist fantasy is just that, *a fantasy*.
As for "resistance", if you're getting it, show some self-respect and back off.
What kind of a lame STRAWMAN IS THAT? Have I or anyone else here said NOT to back off of on resistance!?!?!?!
When we talk about persistance we're talking about THE HOMO SAPIENS COURTSHIP PROCESS which is:
- make a move and go 2 steps forward
- she resists a little doesn't let you make the 3rd step too soon
- back off, interact some more before you try again, make the next 2 steps forward, this time she lets you make steps 3 and 4, but stops you on step 5
- then you back off and interact some more before you can try step 5 later on... etc etc...
This is LITERALLY how the human courtship process works (and in most mamalls incidentally). These delays where you have to back off and try later ARE the "token resistance" we speak of.
IF IT DIDN'T EXIST you would kiss any attracted woman 2 seconds from hello? WHY DON'T YOU then you logic challenged freak!?!? Why does it take more than 2 seconds to go from hello to kiss if there was no "delays" or token resistance from women?
Why does it take longer than 5 minutes to go from hello to sex!?!?!? SNAP OUT OF YOUR FANTASIES, come back to planet earth.
ARE YOU CLAIMING THAT WOMEN PERFORM 50% OF THE MOVES? THAT'S SCIENTIFICALLY INACCURATE UP TO ABSURDITY.
ACCORDING TO YOU BESTSELLERS NEVER SOLD, millions of articles were never written and Jennifer Aniston doesn't exist - Are you the MOST INSANE conspiracy theorist on the planet!??!?!
Delete(just a random example out of millions) YOU DO KNOW that Jennifer Aninston bragged about how she "caught" Brad Pitt by using the rules (a bestseller book on how to master token resistance).
SHE BRAGGED about refusing Brad Pitt's date requests (even though she totally had a crush on him) to get her to chase him and ask multiple times before she said yes.
YOU DO REALIZE "the rules" IS SINGLE BEST SOLD BOOK on dating for women of ALL TIME!?!?!??!
Who the fuck bought this book, was it fucking ALIENS!?!?!? Examine yourself you freak. You're not making zero sense.
The fucking magazines read by billions of women every month running articles on HOW TO MASTER token resistance and fake disinterest? WHO ARE THEY WRITTEN FOR? Fucking aliens!!??!?
Let's do a little game called FEMINIST TROLL MATH.
ReplyDeleteAs I Said: ARE ALL guys in a party/club ugly? BECAUSE NOBODY GETS these stares you speak of on a regular basis
---> If you're a guy, and you WALK INTO A BIG CLUB with 500 (five hundred girls), and you get ONE girl who stares you down and shows you interest without any subtlety
---> Using feminist troll logic, that means that 499 women find you unattractive.
---> Yet even the absolute worst guys on the planet can get a kiss from at THE VERY LEAST "1 in 15 girls" - if they just approach girls without waiting for an overt stare*. Just approach, persist a little past the initial "indifference" the girls give, and try to kiss the girls who let you come closer in their physical space.
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!?!?!?! Don't 499 girls FIND YOU UNATTRACTIVE?!?!?! AFTERALL the feminist troll told us that women are NEVER SUBTLE if interested!!!!
How is this possible then?!??!?! OMG THE MATH BROKE DOWN, it's almost like this feminist troll theory is lacking in logic!!!!
If you can makeout with 1 in 15 girls THEN HOW COME you don't get STARED AT with a huge smile by 1 in 15 girls? (math says you should get STARED at or approached THIRTY TIMES when you go into a bigger club)
WHO THE FUCK GETS STARED AT AND APPROACHED THIRTY TIMES each time they go into the club!?!?!?!?!??!?! As I said I've gone clubbing with minor celebs in my small country and saw them get ZERO stares or approaches (yet they're on fucking COVERS of magazines multiple times a month talking about the studs they are). The ONLY people who get this sort of overt interest ARE MEGA CELEBRITIES.
This feminist troll theory gets more and more and more absurd the more you use logical analysis on it! Damn I wish logic, philosophy and the scientific method was mandatory for person in the world. We'd prevent so many of these stupid idiotic arguments.
Even these trolls who claim they get super-overt shows of interest from women (even when exaggerating) will admit to only getting 1-2 stares per club. (even if they walk around the club and give every girl a chance to notice them multiple times).
HOW COME NOBODY HAS a 1 in 500 ratio on makeouts then you fucking LOGIC-CHALLENGED FREAK!?!?!?
STOP DESTROYING YOUNG MEN's Confidence by telling them 499 girls in a room find him ugly. JUST STOP IT, YOU ARE A BULLY.
p.s. disclaimer for retards
Before this retard takes me out of context, I'm not actually suggesting approaching indiscriminately. I'm just using it as an example that EVEN when you do approach indiscriminately at least 1 in 15 chicks will make out with you (and that's worst case scenario for worst guys).
If you are somewhat discriminate (which is what Aaron recommends) you can get better results. I'm just using this point to challenge THE BULLYING FEMINIST THEORY that "women who don't stare you down find you unattractive" and "women who don't jump on you and make it super easy to lay them, find you unattractive". THAS IS FUCKING BULLYING invented by butch lesbian feminists to bully heterosexual men into low self-esteem.
Sorry but now I'm totally lost and I understand nothing.
ReplyDeleteIt means I only fucked the rare women that made it easy for me and I missed so many opportunities in my life ? Everytime a woman was cold when I approached her I just backed off and only talked to girls that were happy to talk to me. It doesn't mean there was no token resistance but it was so bullshit I could just sense she was into me. I can tell the difference between a woman playing games and a woman giving token resistance. Women playing games are not agreeable at all to talk to. I think I only fucked 3 women playing games. It was the worst 3 lays of my life. And they were not into me after the fuck (ONS).
Can you give a list of subtle signals because really now I'm totally lost ?
I'm not an expert in clubs, but I do daygame a lot and notice plenty of time women subtly checking me out (even 4 times in a row). Yet, every fucking time I approached this kind of girls they just ignored me !! What a bunch of fucking bitches ! Even when I persist, they keep walking, not wanting to talk to me. And calling them out on their bullshit doesn't work neither. They looked at me 4 times, I'm not crazy.
I mean if I get a cold answer at the approach I don't lose my time with her. But generally when I get a lay (from daygame) this is what I get :
1. Eye contact + she seems fascinated by me (so maybe this is because in the streets she feels safe by looking at me because there is so many people and she thinks I cannot catch her looking at me)
2. I approach her because she will never do it
3. I talk with her + ask her number. She's super enthusiastic at the idea of seeing each other again.
4. No problem to set up a date.
5. At the date, she allows me touching her immediately (hand holding, arm around waist).
6. When she wants to be kissed (I sense it through her body language), I kiss her without resistance form her.
7. I walk with her to my place without saying it. In front of my place I use a pretense.
8. I either get no LMR, either a very subtle one really easy to overcome, either I get a LMR because it's first date and she has a rule and in this case I stop everything and wait for second date and at second date there is no LMR.
So it means all my life I only got super easy lays and I missed many opportunities ?
Everytime there was resistance, it never led to anything. At the beginning I persisted like a motherfucker. Asking multiple time for her number, asking her out multiple time, trying to kiss her multiple time, trying to get into her pants multiple time, etc. It never worked.
NB : The girls never verbalized anything like "hold my hand", "kiss me" or "now fuck me". But after a while I became good at recognizing signals that her body send to me. I know how to recognize a woman that wants to be kissed and I know how to recognize when she wants to be fucked.
Of course also add : "it's first time I do that", "I never did that so quickly", "I usually don't fuck so soon" and other bullshit girls say.
Also note that I'm not saying that everything is simple and goes smooth.
Yet for me it always happened like this :
1. I make the moves
2. Girl accepts the moves
Look to the other anynomous below, he did a great job explaining things.
DeleteWe're not talking about "resistance", we're talking about "token resistance". There's a HUGE difference.
Let's use first kisses as an example to explain the difference...
The key is (and this comes from experience), that when you go in for the kiss and she moves away... YOU CAN READ which of the two it is!
Resistance: "I will never ever kiss you, you're totally not my type. Never EVER try again"
Token Resistance: "I want to kiss you back, but this is not the right place and time, so find a more private place later and try again" or "I don't want to seem easy, so I can't kiss you back this early, but try again at a later time"
How to tell
The key is to recognizing when its the second one. The simplest way to tell is that when its the second they have this subtle smile, like they're happy you tried.
With experience you'll be able to tell. I don't know how to explain it, but its this cute smile where she is happy and pleased you tried to kiss her. This is usually the sign of "I do want to be kissed, just not now" (because I'm trying to not look easy, because my friends are around, because because because....)
Roger, your stuff reads exactly like the idea that someone with little to no experience with women would have of meeting them.
ReplyDeleteWomen over 12 years old do not give overt signals like that, because it would put them way too much on the line. They never know how the dude is going to behave, and don't want him to take their interest for granted. Sane, normal women will not do that because it is socially weird and a sign of desperation; but it's what it looks like in the movies.
What you are saying is problematic, because it ties in the very root of why so many men are so angry at women; because they do not see overt signals, they assume they are unattractive, and don't understand that the social context we live in does not authorize women to act as freely on their desires as we do. They then develop warped ideas of how meeting women works, and voila, you have PUA, Elliott Rogers and idiots like you.
I long assumed I was unattractive, and it was a pretty life-changing moment to realize how many girls were actually ready to sleep with me if I tried. They would not give the signals you describe (and I have never heard anything like this from the guys I know who are good with women, I'm talking of laycounts in the hundreds), yet not only would sleep with me, but also describe how relieved they were that I finally tried.
If you think the scenario you laid out makes sense, I would venture that not only do you have little experience meeting sexual/partners, you probably also have few female friends who feel actually comfortable with you. Complaining that the guy they like didn't make a move when they just standed right there is 80% of the meeting complaints you'll hear from girls.
CONTINUED IN THE NEXT POST
If you think the scenario you laid out makes sense, I would venture that not only do you have little experience meeting sexual/partners, you probably also have few female friends who feel actually comfortable with you.
DeleteSo true. I've literally had hundreds of conversations with hot female friends where they whined that a guy didn't make the move past their token resistance.
Like I've actually gotten angry at some of these chicks and was literally like "WAIT you point blank TOLD HIM you only see him as a friend, and now you're whining why he didn't make a move"
"Wait, you rejected him for a date 4 times, and you're sitting her whining why he didn't try a fifth time?"
I've actually had to explain and hold a speech (I hang out with chicks 10 years younger than me) about my early youth, and how we boys are brainwashed to not persist.
Like I've ACTUALLY had to explain to them that guys their age WILL not make a move if you're playing hard to get, because all of society, feminism, aunts etc teach them that this is "evil".
And the girls are fucking STUNNED. Like I actually explain to them that it takes guys 5-10 years to overcome that programming and know how to deal with hard-to-get games.
My favorite story
A super hot 19 year old who looks exactly like the pornstar Madison Ivy, was ranting to me how a mutual friend of ours (also 19) is a "total homosexual".
Why? Because he was with her for a couple of hours, and he didn't bang her, even though she was super horny. She removed his hands many times and told him "we're not sleeping tonight, I'm not that kind of a girl".
And apparently he is "totally gay" because he believed her token resistance. It's freaking crazy. And this BS is why so many guys are angry like the anonymous said.
[Of course, once you get experienced, you read through all of this like "neo in the matrix", so it's not an issue and you know exactly what to do when... But until then you spend fucking years or decades wondering why the societal message so conflicts with what women do in real life, and what guys who do get laid do]
CONTINUED HERE
ReplyDeleteSince you have little experience, you don't understand what token resistance means. It does not mean that if a girl likes you, you need to persist until she does. RSD teaches that as plowing and it has been ridiculed here. It means that the fact that a girl likes you does not imply that she will show it or act on it, because society does not teach women to act on their desire like us. Is it easier to lay a woman who is interested? Yeah, no shit sherlock. Is an interested woman going to make it easy for you to fuck her? If she is desperate or socially maladjusted, maybe, but otherwise no. Just a few examples I can think of from the top of my head:
-"We won't be sleeping together"->laid 2 hours later.
-"No touching tonight"->laid the same night
-"I told you I'm not like that"->no fuck in the evening, went to sleep, I wake up in the middle of the night after she "accidentally" bump into me, have sex and she tells me that she feared she might have put me off earlier.
-"You give up too fast :)"->that was a text message, after I thought she was really not into me, laid later
And let's not talk about all the others who refuse to have sex on the first or second date, only to invite you home the next one, because at this point, she knows you since enough time not to feel like a slut. The thing is, if you understand the framework society creates for women's desire, all these behaviors make sense. And talking about token resistance does not imply you should overcome it by force, it just means you shouldn't cower down when you hear stuff like "do you really think we're going to sleep together?" or "Don't try anything huh?" (this was said to me in front of a girl I was going back from a party with, just to drop her home, we were sharing a cab, by her friend. I was very unexperienced by then, and when the friend saw my face, she came into my ear and said "I'm kidding, if you get the chance, go for it", she feared she had ruined the plan of her friend).
Sane, normal interested women don't make it easy to fuck them, that is bullshit. No woman wants to be easy to lay, that's too stigmatizing for them. However, since you don't overcome token resistance by force, but by being cool about it, there is no need to shower us with your autistic ideal social settings: nobody is okay with being brutal and/or obnoxious here.
One last thing Roger:
ReplyDelete"Maybe. You know what, maybe. I'm a very friendly and open guy so maybe girls feel less "intimidated" by me (the opposite of tough alpha, lol). OK, so maybe guys who are more "close off" need to be more proactive, could be."
How many of them do you fuck? Being friendly does not mean being interested, in fact, I have often seen that it's the opposite: girls who want you don't feel as comfortable with you as they do with guys they don't fancy. That's a pretty universal phenomenon actually, same with dudes who tense up with girls they like.
Roger and other friendly asexual smartasses make the same mistake PUAs make. They work off of "false positives".
DeleteWe've mocked PUAs hundreds of times because they count women "smiling" "laughing" etc as markers of success, or getting more women to laugh by doing clown routines as "more success". Those are all false positives. In the end all that counts is your tongue in your mouth, or your p in her v... Everything else can be a false positive.
NOW, I know PLENTY of "friendly asexual guys", most of them have a ton of female friends, and most of them are virgins. What these guys don't get is that the reason women approach them and feel comfortable being friendly around them is that - they see you as an asexual eunuch.
What they also don't get is that IF THEY WERE TO TRY to get laid, the moment they try being sexual and make moves... the women would completely change their demeanor. They'd no longer have this super-enthusiastic "omg you're my best girlfriend" attitude.
Ok, I understand better now.
ReplyDeleteBut that's a bit scary because I confused what you say with what PUA say. I was : "oh no, so everytime the girl said "maybe" I just gave up and she was certainly interested but I didn't persist"
So my last lay there was token resistance : "no you cannot come up with me so soon (we were in front of her place)" => she came to my hotel room on second date, laid.
Second-to-last : slight LMR "I don't know if it's good, I'm stupid :(" So I reassure her. Laid on first date after 1 hour.
Third-to-last : fucking dumb bitch playing games => laid on third date. Worst lay of my life.
Fourth-to-last : accepted my moves but said things like "don't be so aggressive ;)", "no need to hurry ;)" => laid on first date after 1 hour.
But I just sensed when they said that, that it was total bullshit, so I just stopped for a while and tried again later.
But what never happened to me is : girl is cold when I approach her and suddenly after 10 minutes she's super happy to talk to me. This never happened. Every girl I laid was super happy to talk to me OR super submissive.
girl is cold when I approach her and suddenly after 10 minutes she's super happy to talk to me. This never happened.
DeleteIf you're referring my comment. I didn't say "walk up to a girl and she's a bitch to you for 10 minutes". I merely said she doesn't immediatelly give you the super-huge smile of "Oh I am also so interested in you as well!" and takes 5-10 minutes before she returns the favor.
I hope you're not reading it as if I had said "walk up to a girl, she's a complete bitch to you, then 10 minutes later she's super happy".
Most chicks I've gotten from clubs DID NOT have a huge grin the moment I said hello to them. In fact most didn't smile at all and acted indifferent.
What I am saying is that she's initially *hesitant/indifferent*, then 10 minutes later she starts smiling back and being equally warm. ACTUALLY the best word to describe these girls is that they act NON-CHALANT for 5-10 minutes before they open up. I think that's the most appropriate word.
Also it depends on context. From my experiences, girls in bars, parties, malls or stores... they are nice and all smiley right from hello (unless completely repulsed). So this idea about "girls are non-chalant for 10 minutes before they start being cheery back" - for me mostly refers to clubs.
I only see this "act indifferent/somewhat cold on approach" in clubs. Now in my country its especially extreme as girls are more conservative and taught that merely responding nicely to a guy in a club makes them look easy (irrelevant if they're attracted to him or not), so in clubs most girls make guys "work for it" as much as 5-10 minutes before they start being warm back. But from what I've heard this is true in most clubs in most countries.
Everything is about nuance. There is a difference between these two:
- "I'm somewhat hesitant and cold towards because you're a stranger in a club and it takes me time to warm up"
vs
- "I'm bitchy towards you because I am not interested in you at all and want you to go away"
It's not that hard to differentiate them with experience.
Ok, thanks.
DeleteSo there is even a difference between bars and clubs ! I didn't know that.
I'm mainly doing online and daygame that's why this "cold/indifferent on approach" surprised me a little bit.
I only go to bars once in a while and even less frequently to clubs.
But thanks, I note what you said and will remember next time I go in club.
Yeah the original conversion context was clubs, which I was using to make a point.
DeleteAnd yeah I suspected you might be a daygamer because of your experiences, which is why I made the distinction. Women in daygame don't do this.
This seems to be a feature of high-intensity DJ clubs...
Also for some reason clubs with live bands or live music, the people are less tense (like they're less tense at bars and parties and cafes).
But yeah, clubs with a DJ playing seem to be the worst. Everyone is tense, and high-strung and worried about how they appear etc etc...
I'm the same way anonymous - the girls I lay are extremely warm and immediately in to me. I simply don't have this cold/token resistance thing. From the vehemence of alek and everyone disagreeing with me I'm prepared to agree that token resistance is a real thing, but it isn't for me. Its probably a personality thing - for some guys, girls either like them, or don't. For other guys, there's games. I don't know why that should be - I suspect its your own energy. If you are totally without pretension or attitude yourself, with your defenses down, and "vulnurable", I suspect girls fee comfortable being open with you. If you have a kind of "naive" quality. Its not something that can be cultivated either.
DeleteWhatever. To each his own. Alek - overall you're pretty cool. I disagree with like 30% of what you say, but whatever. Perfection isn't possible, Overall you're more good than bad and while I think you got it wrong here I have no interest in fighting with you.
Oh, and Alek, I didn't say that girls will INITIATE interest, but if you STATE AT THEM, they will RESPOND (if they like you).
ROGER, DO YOU CLAIM TO be able to KISS all attracted GIRLS in 2 seconds from hello?
Delete(hint, basic knowledge of logic and some IQ required for next section)
a) If physical attraction is all it takes for a woman to be attracted to you from across the room
(I agree with this)
b) women never delay (do token resistance on you)
c) then it FOLLOWS that you can walk up to any interested girl and kiss her immediately, she will not resist
d) if a girl doesn't kiss you back in 2 seconds, she finds you unattractive
DO YOU NOT SEE THE LOGICAL FALLACIES IN THIS FEMINIST BULLYING THEORY!?!?!?
Some girls will be instant, yes, especially later at night in clubs. Not all. Aaron Sleazy I believe also writes about near instantaneous hook-ups with almost no talking in clubs. It's not so unusual for many guys.
DeleteSome girls need to get comfortable around you. This isn't "resistance". As a socially normal human being, I can tell (usually) that she is attracted to me yet isn't so comfortable as to kiss me right away. I listen to her signals. Sometimes, if I make a mistake and move too soon, she might pull back - but she will make it clear she wants the interaction to continue, will smile, etc. In other words the "resistance" takes place within the context of an overall clear desire to continue the interaction, clear positive attitude towards me, and clear sexual interest, making it not "resistance" but an issue of pacing of intimacy.
I once started dancing close with a girl within minutes of having met, tried to kiss her, and she turned her head, saying she doesn't know me. But guess what? She put her arms around my neck and pulled me even closer.
That's not playing hard to get. That's not resistance. That's not playing games. That's being human.
That's not testing to see if a guy is "alpha" and trying to weed out the "wimpy" guys and only reproduce with the tough guys who kept on going. In fact, trying again after she pulls back, within an overall context of clear positivity and sexual interest, is perfectly consistent with being a "nice guy". It's simply respecting her need for pacing of intimacy.
If I fail to make another move, most likely she will be disappointed. She will perceive that I'm socially clueless, but won't see me as a "wimp" or not "worthy" of reproducing with. Heck, I have had girls make the next move on me! That is not at all an uncommon female response to a guy she really likes being too obtuse to realize its a pacing issue. Not all girls will do that, but many will.
Oh, so now I can say you're a pua because you're talking about "building comfort" and I can imply like you that PUAs invented the notion of "building comfort"... Now using your tactics I cane take some crazy PUA claims and put them in your mouth and claim you had said them (since afterall, you're here explaining the PUA theory of building comfort).
DeleteOn comfort
Yes, biological comfort is part of the delay.
But to claim women don't CONCIOUSLY delay/refuse moves because they have an agenda "Don't appear easy" "i have a rule not to kiss first 3 attempts" "I want him to try harder so he can feel I am worth more".
IF YOU DEFINE COMFORT to EXCUSE women's games, you can simply redefine comfort to include token resistance.
-> A woman can have a concious manipulative desire to force men to try a dozen times, because she thinks that making them "work for it" will make them feel she is worth more, and see her as "less easy"
-> If you want to be a feminist, you can define this as "comfort". SHE can define it as comfort, but its concious manipulation for the sake of achieving a concious goal.
For me ANYTHING that's not 100% biological comfort (like a rule that I only put out on date 3, not date 1) IS token resistance.
Now if you want to be a feminist who claims women are pristine angels who don't play games (and buy books on how to play games for fun)... that's your problem.
I have no interest in fighting with you.
ReplyDeleteYou have no interest because you have no arguments and you've been called out by everyone on the obvious inexperience based fantasy theories.
Oh, and Alek, I didn't say that girls will INITIATE interest, but if you STATE AT THEM, they will RESPOND (if they like you).
Really virgin boy? HAVE YOU ACTUALLY TESTED THIS THEORY?
I HAVE, hundreds of times and ways (since I have been in this for so long, I've tested every crazy theory, even the BS you believe in).
1) I can walk into a club and stare at all 500 girls, zero to one will stare back with a huge smile.
BTW FUCK YOU FOR telling me and any young inexperienced guys who might be reading this that 499 girls find him unattractive. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU - YOU ARE A BULLY
2) But if I walk up to girls and start engaging them, I can get 5-10, maybe even 15 makeouts (in a bigger club)
3) Most don't do this "huge smile back" even when I approach, yet some make out with me 10 minutes later, despite taking 5-10 minutes to warm up
SEE HOW YOUR FEMINIST MATH BREAKS DOWN!?!?!
Maybe you mean "daygame"? GO Around stare at girls and see how many stare back with a smile, like 1 in 200? DO 199 find you unattractive? HOWCOME you can get much more than 1 in 200 if you approach anyway without the fantasy super-huge smile?
I WISH YOUR MAGICAL THEORY WAS TRUE, WE ALL DO. IF ALL WE HAD TO DO was "stare and smile at a girl" and ALL interested girls would confirm interest so BLATANTLY, HOW FUCKING WONDERFUL WOULD THIS BE?
I would give HALF OF WHAT I OWN to render your fantasy true, REALLY! If I had a wish from a genie, I'd wish for this. JUST stare at a girl and you know exactly who to approach with certainty!!!! AMAZING!!!
Please I beg you dude, LEAVE THE HOUSE, TEST YOUR THEORIES OUT before you spout them online, PLEASE
Roger: I don't know why that should be - I suspect its your own energy. If you are totally without pretension or attitude yourself, with your defenses down, and "vulnurable", I suspect girls fee comfortable being open with you. If you have a kind of "naive" quality. Its not something that can be cultivated either.
HOW MANY OF THEM DO YOU ACTUALLY ***F-U-C-K**!??!?! How many girls do you actually meet outside social circles?
PROVE THAT YOU DON'T GET TOKEN RESISTANCE
- Go on a streak where you bang a dozen girls in 5 minutes from hello to sex
- Or 20 in a row where you go from hello to kiss in 2 seconds
(So either don't get a kiss, or if you get a kiss, it has to be in 2 seconds, because ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY, if a girl is attracted, she is attracted and fully into it from SECOND ONE, and girls NEVER delay (token resistance))
IF YOU CANNOT DO THIS, WHY?
What's creating that delay in between? Is it YOU? If not, who's creating the delay? THE DELAY is what we call "token resistance". Otherwise you could just ask each girls to fuck right from hello and if interested they'd all say yes. WHY Don't THEY?
(saying no to an offer when you want it too, but want to delay it IS what we mean by token resistance. If a girl is attracted to you, thinks about kissing you, but doesn't want to do it too soon, that IS token resistance)
ALSO GIVE CONTEXT
Are you talking social circle, clubs, parties, daygame? The other anonymous was talking about daygame.
Are you claiming to go into a club and all women are 100% warm to you if you just look at them and super friendly from hello? Or are all your theories based on social circles (where even complete pervs and dorks get super warmth no matter what you say, the girls are always super warm)
I'm talking bars and clubs. Not social circles.
DeleteGirls are there to meet guys. If you are approachable (not frowning, scowling), and make clear YOUR interest in her (initiate) by looks and stares, many if not most girls will make eye contact back. Many girls will also initiate eye contact with you.
The huge smile thing is more iffy, but not at all uncommon. If I'm nicely drunk and super happy, and its later at night, its extremely common for girls to respond to my huge smile with one of their own.
That's my experience. When I go into a bar or a club, there are always a few girls who make eye contact with me, and a few more who will lock eyes with me after I look for contact.
There are some interested girls that have trouble with eye contact but will stand unusually close to you for no reason, etc, etc.
I never approach girls UNLESS I get either eye contact or some other clear indication, like coming to stand super close to me for no reason. The few times I have randomly approached I have gotten either ignored, attacked, or politely let down, so I've learned not to do it.
I rely HEAVILY on eye contact. If I didn't have that, I don't know what I'd do.
I agree there is occasionally a delay to kiss, but warmth is always immediate and as I pace myself by getting comfortable with each other there is rarely resistance when the kiss finally takes place. You feel comfortable at different rates with different people.
Your concept of token resistance was as a device for girls to weed out the 'alpha' guys from the 'wimpy' guys and to see who is 'worth' reproducing with. This is a horrible way to think and is a complete misunderstanding of the psychological elements involved.
RogerTroll: Girls are there to meet guys. If you are approachable (not frowning, scowling), and make clear YOUR interest in her (initiate) by looks and stares, many if not most girls will make eye contact back. Many girls will also initiate eye contact with you
DeleteYOU ARE BACKTRACKING.
You claimed 80% of interested girls WILL STARE AND GRIN AT YOU.
YOU NOW WROTE AN ENTIRE COMMENT WHICH IS ACTUALLY SANE AND REFERS TO "eye contact" after you got pummeled for your fantasies. And then you pretend as if that's all you had said all along.
NOBODY HERE WOULD HAVE DISAGREED WITH YOU IF YOU HAD SAID "eye contact" originally.
YOU ORIGINALLY CLAIMED "if girls aren't staring and grinning at you, they're not interested"
Since eye-contact is quite broad and even includes 0,5 second glances over the shoulder, your entire comment above makes now does make sense. TOO BAD THE ORIGINAL COMMENTS ARE STILL THERE.
For the record, 95% of my approaches involve eye-contact, WHICH IS SUBTLE, i.e. 1 second glances over the shoulder when you pass by her, or some eye-contact acknowledgement when you walk toward her, or the glance to you, glance to floor, glance back to you etc... BUT IT STILL untrue that without these a girl is not attracted to you.
I prefer getting at least some eye-contact so I am somewhat discriminate and like to avoid uninterested girls. I know full well plenty of the girls who didn't give eye-contact are also attracted.
None of this was not part of and didn't fit into your original virgin theory claims (unless women stare back and grin at you, they're not interested).
Your concept of token resistance was as a device for girls to weed out the 'alpha' guys from the 'wimpy' guys and to see who is 'worth' reproducing with. This is a horrible way to think and is a complete misunderstanding of the psychological elements involved.
DeleteI AM FUCKING ASKING YOU FOR THE N-TH TIME TO STOP MISREPRESENTING ME DESPITE ME FUCKING CLARIFYING IT 20 TIMES.
THE CONTEXT OF THAT PARAGRAPH WAS EXPLAINING HOW GUYS DEVELOP THAT "BELIEF" AND "ALPHAS/AHOLES" was in QUOTES.
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT QUOTES ARE USED FOR YOU RETARD
I was relating to a guy who had developed the belief that "women love abusers" - and explaining how guys develop this belief for the benefit of Tarnished, trying to be diplomatic in connecting two worldviews.
YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS FOR THE n-th time, and YOU STILL KEEP MISREPRESENTING ME.
==============
IT IS A FACT THAT MOST WOMEN are bummed out when a guy gives up too soon AND END UP BANGING THE GUYS who don't give up too soon. And unlike your theoretical ass, I ACTUALLY have hundreds of female friends and see HOW THEY label guys who give up too soon. THEY USE THE WORD "gay" "wimp", "pussy". This is not PUAs who invented this shit. Women themselves say this shit.
THIS
IS
A
FACT
IF YOU GIVE UP any time ANY woman doesn't immediately accept a move, you will end up not getting most girls who are attracted to you. (guys who persist/don't give up will get more of them).
Unfortunately because mainstream society calls these guys "aholes", this is how someone can develop the belief that "women like aholes".
They don't, society lies to you that persistance means you're an ahole. Society lies to you that going for less than 100000% in your face signals makes you an ahole.
MOST OF THESE GIRLS will label you a "COWARD" to their girlfriends. This was not invented by PUAs, MAKE SOME FEMALE FRIENDS AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. See how they throw around the terms "coward" "homo" merely because they gave some subtle-ass mixed signal and a guy didn't act on it.
The reason I used the language I used to describe this dynamic in your favorite paragraph, was to relate to the guy I was responding to and build a bridge between his manospherian/pua worldview and that of tarnished (a female visitor). That's why "alphas" is in quotes.
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REGARDLESS OF THE LANGUAGE USED TO DESCRIBE IT - THE OBJECTIVE REALITY IS STILL THE SAME - IT IS A FACT THAT MOST WOMEN are bummed out when a guy gives up too soon AND END UP BANGING THE GUYS who don't give up too soon.
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GUYS who give up too soon, give up on token resistance and don't see that it is token (the girl lets you know through body language if its real resistance or merely "try again later", "it's too soon" "not in this location" "not this date, next date")
- "we're not sleeping tonight"
- "oh I'm not that kind of girl"
- girl moving away from first kiss attempt
- first undressing attempt
- moving your hand when you try to caress her boobs first time
etc...
many if not most girls will make eye contact back. Many girls will also initiate eye contact with you.
DeleteDUDE ADMIT YOU ARE BACKTRACKING.
You wrote a far more sane comment here (you're now saying WHAT WE SAY), pretending as if that's what you had said all along.
THE ONLY REASON YOU GOT ATTACKED BY EVERYONE HERE IS BECAUSE YOU SAID:
- If a girl isn't staring and grinning at you, she's not attracted, sorry, accept it
- If a girl is interested in you, 80% of the time she will STARE AND GRIN AT YOU
Now you are pretending as if you had been sane all along, and writing this far more nuanced stuff that we all agree on. This (what you write now and pretend was your idea all along)... is what's NOT EXTREME.
Originally all your shit was this extremist feminist shit with no nuance. Somehow "all interested girls stare and grin at you" turned into the sane "it's better to discriminate based on getting some eye contact" ----> which is only about 1000 times more sane.
I guess the next step is to admit that yes, women are subtle in most signals. It's the only one of your original feminist claims you haven't dumped.
DeleteOriginally you made the bullying feminist claims "sorry dudes, women are NEVER subtle, if you think she's subtle, she's just not into you, sorry".
Now all the combined thousands of women we here have fucked (us guys on this community here)... the kind of women who give 0,5 second glances over the shoulder, or hover in your vicinity stroking their hair, or hint at interest in sex with some vague double-meaning hints that they want us to move them to a sex location...
Those women were never interested in us (I guess they fucked us by accident?). Because again, you made the feminist claim that women are never subtle.
Can't wait until you write something where you pretend you had been saying women are subtle all along. It's the only one you haven't flat out dumped yet.
I ASK YOU FOR THE ELEVENTH TIME - STOP MISQUOTING ME, AND THEN BUTCHERING STRAW-MEN.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a kind of "naive" quality. Its not something that can be cultivated either.
That just means they don't see you as a sexual threat. SO WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC?
Btw, yes it can be cultivated, go out and pretend to be an efeminate gayish character, all women will be very nice and open up to you and treat you like a new best girlfriend. Doesn't mean they will fuck you. What is your fucking point?
I simply don't have this cold/token resistance thing
WHY ARE YOU CONFLATING THE TWO RETARD? They're two different topics? What's with the slash?
1) The non-challance thing REFERS TO high-stress clubs
I don't care how smiley your cousin's friend or your neighbour is when you say hello, I really don't.
DO YOU EVEN READ THE FUCKING COMMENTS I WRITE BEFORE RESPONDING? I clarified it 10 different ways, AND YOU KEEP misquoting me.
My original comment SAID that no, interested girls in clubs don't all PUT ON A SUPER huge GRIN just because you said hello or looked in their direction. Sometimes it takes interested girls 5-10 minutes before they give this super-huge grin you claim ALL GIRLS GIVE.
YOU TWISTED it as if I had said girls are bitchy(super cold) to you for 10 minutes and then you fuck them. EXCEPT I NEVER SAID IT! I fucking clarified it fucking 10 ways, and you STILL keep misrepresenting and twisting my words.
2) "token resistance" SIMPLY MEANS you don't fuck girls in 5 minutes
ROGER I AM ASKING YOU FOR THE 50th time. DO YOU FUCK all attracted GIRLS in 5 MINUTES FROM HELLO? And if not, WHY NOT!?
You claim women give no token resistance to you, and if they're attracted (which you believe they know from first sight). WHY DOES IT TAKE LONGER THAN FUCKING 5 minutes!?!?!?!? Why don't you just walk up and say "let's go fuck" and they do it!?!??!?!
AGAIN, you claim to get no token resistance, WHY DOES IT TAKE YOU LONGER THAN 5 minutes!?!?!?!?
And to answer your question, I get laid a fair amount. I go out a lot, too. Any guy can get laid often if he stops complicating shit, stops thinking there is any special skill set to getting laid, accept his level (very tough for most guys), and have normal social skills.
Delete"Naive" isn't the best word, you're right. I have a naive friend who relates to women exactly the way you describe. What I mean is non-pretentious, without a front, without any attempt to uphold an "image", without an "attitude" (which so many guys have!), without any attempt to be "cool" or "superior", just relaxed and yourself, lots of girls who are attracted to you will feel comfortable making that known and won't engage you in an adversarial way, but in an easy, relaxed, no-bullshit way.
Again, its a personality thing. You have to overcome a lot of ego before you can do that.
You defined "token resistance" as having to do with all this alpha bullshit an who she thinks is 'worthy' to breed with her nonsense - your new definition is quite different. You seem to simply be referring to the time it takes strangers to get comfortable enough to become intimate with each other. "resistance" is a poor word to describe that, and "token" adds an extra layer suggesting insincerity and "testing" of you when in fact the rate at which perfect strangers become comfortable enough for intimacy is perfectly sincere and not up to us. Heck, sometimes *I* don't feel comfortable kissing her right away. Then of course, with some girls, I do.
P.S
Delete"Normal" social skills in the realm of courtship means being willing to indicate sexual interest and become sexual (when appropriate) while not faking your personality or doing anything 'special' or 'extra' to impress or make her see you as 'alpha'.
Just as "normal" in the realm of going grocery shopping means indicating to the clerk what you want, "normal" in the realm of getting girls means indicating to her what you want.
RogerTroll: You defined "token resistance" as having to do with all this alpha bullshit an who she thinks is 'worthy' to breed with her nonsense
DeleteNo I didn't, YOU DID. YOU READ WORDS NEVER WRITTEN ON A PAGE AND ASCRIBED THEM TO ME.
your new definition is quite different.
Actually RETARD from comment one I asked you why are you entering a debate without FIRST asking for a clarification on my definitions?
YOU DEFINED THINGS FOR ME, THEN PROCEEDED to have a strawman war.
and "token" adds an extra layer suggesting insincerity and "testing" of you when in fact the rate at which perfect strangers become comfortable
SO WE ARE BACK TO YOUR FEMINIST CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT WOMEN ARE PRISTINE ANGELS WHO ARE NEVER INSINCERE !?!?!??!
WHO READS THOSE MILLIONS OF ARTICLES IN MAGAZINES SOLD TO BILLIONS OF WOMEN? WHO ARE THOSE ARTICLES ABOUT FAKING DISINTEREST AND PLAYING HARD TO GET WRITTEN FOR?
Do aliens read these articles!?!?!?
WHY ARE THE BEST SOLD DATING BOOKS FOR WOMEN ALL BOOKS ON HOW TO PLAY HARD TO GET? Yes that's right, all those articles and books are about CONCIOUSLY AND PURPOSEFULLY pretending you don't want something you do want.
Comfort is ONLY a part of it. Women consciously choosing to delays sex until "date three" despite the fact they're just as wanting on date one is not "comfort", it's token resistance.
Smartass Backtracker strikes yet again:
Delete"Normal" social skills in the realm of courtship means being willing to indicate sexual interest and become sexual (when appropriate)
NO IT IS NOT NORMAL YOU VIRGIN THEORETICIAN.
ITS NOT NORMAL TO GO AROUND HITTING ON GIRLS (especially not fucking strangers) OR MAKING MOVES ON THEM or sexually escalate on women the moment it's possible.
Aaron is not normal. It's NOT NORMAL to have the success he has had. I'm not fucking normal (it's not normal to bang 10-20 chicks a year). Cut out this "normal" feminist bullshit designed to BULLY young guys.
"If you're just normal, chicks will throw themselves at you and you'll automagically have sex with all interested chicks... and if they don't, you must be defective in some way"
IF IT WAS "normal", EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE 10+ partners a year like a guy who does do this. The average guy ONLY has 3-4 girlfriends PER LIFETIME. And no, its not because they wouldn’t like more, it’s because they wait for the rare times a girl spells out how she wants you.
What’s “normal” is to wait until a girl throws herself at you, and “things just happen” with her doing most of the work. That’s how most “normal” guys get their average girlfriends every 5-10 years.
THAT'S THE FEMINIST BULLSHIT **YOU** spouted originally.
Feminist bullshit: "Just be normal and women will be all over you and spell it all out for you and you'll go smoothly from hello to fucking with zero effort or trying or risk required."
StrawmanJack strikes again:while not faking your personality or doing anything 'special' or 'extra' to impress or make her see you as 'alpha'.
DeleteSTRAWMAN ALERT
Are you arguing with fucking ghosts?
WHY DO YOU KEEP REPEATING STATEMENTS NOBODY ON THIS WEBSITE disagrees with? IN FACT you copy paste proclaim stuff you learned from either aaron, me, gll, johnny (etc) and pretend like it's your idea and now you're educating the ignoramuses on here.
STOP IT.
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PRE-EMPTION: BTW here's what this lying retard will respond with, to all of this, before he says it, for the 50th time he will make the same lie
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I had made ONE COMMENT that he took ONE PARAGRAPH out of and keeps misrepresenting and taking out of context and adding all sorts of meanings and inferences on it.
It was on a different blog relating between a PUA and a female reader, trying to be the diplomat connecting their two world views. It went something like this
You know the reason guys develop this worldview (like this PUA) is because they go out in the real world, they see that women tell them 'no' or 'i'm not that kind of a girl', they give up and go home. In the meantime the girl calls this guy a "wimp" to her girlfriends, and ends up reproducing with the "alphas" who persisted past the token 'not tonight'. This is how boys get pissed and develop the idea that girls like to fuck aholes and "alphas"
NOW, on the blog I said it in less words and a more "PUA LINGO" way, and not with all these disqualifiers to relate to the manospherian and slowly guide him OUT of PUA theory (by first relating with him by using HIS OWN language).
Not realizing some fucking contrarian troll would spend 5 days and 500 comments quoting a paragraph out of context without disclaimers and making me out to be some sort of a RSDJulian.
I AM NOT GOING TO SPEND FUCKING 5 hours editing every comment with 50 disclaimers and making sure something can't be taken out of context by a feminist troll (like roger). I assume most people are honest and conversing in good faith. And they are. Most will ask for a clarification before attacking or you or posting 50 comments claiming you had said 500 other things (inferred on the one thing they took out of context).
Obviously "alphas" is in quotes, and I was relating to this manospherian/pua-read guy's worldview.
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Back to what the Retard Troll will say and an education in feminist trolling 101, here's how it works
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MY original point I made 5 days that this troll keeps misrepresenting and taking out of context:
You know the reason guys develop this worldview (like this PUA) is because they go out in the real world, they see that women tell them 'no' or 'i'm not that kind of a girl', they give up and go home. In the meantime the girl calls this guy a "wimp" to her girlfriends, and ends up reproducing with the "alphas" who persisted past the token 'not tonight'. This is how boys get pissed and develop the idea that girls like to fuck aholes and "alphas"
Here's what happens next:
StrawmanJack strikes: [just talk to girls] while not faking your personality or doing anything 'special' or 'extra' to impress or make her see you as 'alpha'.
Me: That's a strawman, nobody has said otherwise
Troll: But dude you said that you have to PRETEND to be an alpha and impress girls, or they will see you as a wimp and never fuck you! You have a fundamental lack of understanding. You said we have to impress girls with our alphaness!
lots of girls who are attracted to you will feel comfortable making that known and won't engage you in an adversarial way, but in an easy, relaxed, no-bullshit way.
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE BACKTRACKING BY POSTING SANE SHIT NOBODY WOULD HAVE DISAGREED WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE
Originally you CLAIMED that all women WILL ABSOLUTELY enthusiastically GRIN and make it super clear if they're at all interested, you're now reverting to a sane comment ("interested women won't be adverserial").
WHICH IS WHAT I SAID. The original debate, which you're now pretending never happened was like this:
You: Women grin and make it super clear they are interested right away. If they don't, they're not interested.
Me: No they don't, they sometimes might be non-chalant for as long as 5-10 minutes, yes if they're bitchy they're not interested, eject. But just because they don't jump on you with super-enthusiasm, it doesn't mean they are uninterested, it might take them 5-10 minutes to warm up.
RogerTroll: lots of girls who are attracted to you will
NOTICE HOW YOU CHANGED YOUR LANGUAGE? You went from "all girls" to "a lot of girls". Nobody would have attacked you if you had said this shit originally. And it's not like didn't stick for it all the time, until you realize gig is up, and now decided out of nowhere to adopt what we are telling you and pretend like it was your idea all along.
It's so sad that you guys brought Roger Elliot again. His writing is still there... This is why stuffs of Aaron and Alek should be spread as wide as possible.
ReplyDeleteHe may not be Rogerr ELLIOT... But It's pretty obvious Roger is from PUAHATE. He uses the same extremism, rhetoric and non-argument devices that were typical to PUAHATE.
Delete(If anyone is unfamiliar, puahate was a forum originally formed to discredit puas using reason, but eventually morphed into a community of crazies who developed these super-crazy theories that are like the EXACT opposite of PUA theories, like the opposite extreme... until they produced a serial killer and had to be shutdown).
1) Resistance isn't common. It's the result of moving too fast, a mistake.
ReplyDelete2) It isn't resistance. Its about the fact that takes some time for complete strangers to become comfortable around each other.
3) IF resistance occurs, most times the girl will make it blindingly obvious she is into and wants the interaction to continue such that even the nicest guy will get the message that he doesn't have to kill the interaction. Many times, the girl will make the next move when she is ready.
3) Resistance as a ploy or strategy is practiced by some women, but not most, and such manipulative women are hardly worth pursuing. Most normal women are dying to get with a guy they like and will help you along. The fact that books had to be written about this strategy makes clear it isn't a widespread practice. It will only ever appeal to certain manipulative minds.
4) There ARE "rules" to courtship as well as ALL human interactions - however, they are far too subtle and complex to be verbally defined or put into a formula, and they are learned subconsciously through experience.
5) You deny it, but you are offering a version of game;
a) By telling guys there is a complicated set of actions they must "decode", master, and navigate to see if a women is expressing interest, and that it isn't just obvious stuff that comes naturally to humans.
b) By telling guys that they must navigate and decode non-obvious and complex female beahvior like 'token resistance'.
6) The truth is getting girls is a simple and obvious social interaction that mostly depends on factors outside your control. The only person currently willing to accept this truth is Aaron Sleazy. Probably because he is good looking so doesn't need to pretend.
7) You occasionally revert to a primitive alpha-style game mindset, however much you deny it. It's good that you backtrack - it would be even better if you manned up and apologized.
8) I've outgrown you - you no longer have any advice to give me. I can see now where your ego is distorting your advice. I have enough experience now with girls on my own to form my own opinions.
9) Good luck. In the past you were a help to me.
One more thing.
ReplyDeleteBy offering guys false hope, like you can dramatically improve your appearance by getting huge muscles (above and beyond being reasonably thin and reasonably fit. I'm not talking a fat guy becoming fit. I'm talking an averagely thin guy getting 6 pack ripped with big muscles), and by suggesting to guys who aren't attractive that they are "secretly" getting tons of female attention that, utterly unlike any other kind of human socializing, is just is so non-obvious that it needs special skills to navigate and decode, you aren't helping anyone.
The best improvement in your life often comes from facing the stark reality of your situation and learning to do what you can within its limits. Realism, not false hope, is the best thing you can give anyone.
Hey Rog' – please do us a favour and stop wasting your precious lifetime writing such lengthy and overall useless comments. C'mon, get a life, dude!
Delete=> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8xFnri-lVQU#t=2065
No worries, Marco. This will be my last post.
ReplyDeleteMy message cannot be popular because I offer no hope. In fact I counsel giving up all hope. Alek Novy offers hope and a relatively rose-tinted view of the world. That will always be more popular.
You must have impressive forearms from moving the goal post all the time, Roger. Your original message is one that gives hope to the imbecile, since you said that you only have to be nice and react to all the smiles you're getting from all the women that surround you. After you've gotten pounded into oblivion by Alek, you now pretend that your message wouldn't spread hope. Seriously, what's supposed to spread more hope than telling dudes that they only have to open their eyes and stop running away from all the chicks that attempt to kiss them? If the world was like you describe it, guys would have self-help forums for discussing how to get rid of all the women who chase after them.
DeleteYou've wasted enough of our time, Roger, so do yourself a favour and fuck off.
This article is so true. I always laughed when I heard of "last minute resistance". Last minute resistance translates to lack of sexual attraction. You're so bang on with this, women that show up for "another drink" at your place are most certainly down. Some will even throw themselves at you upon arrival.
ReplyDeleteThat bad boy stuff is complete bullshit too. If you look as good as you can, have some hobbies/goals and social skills, you will do amazing with women. I find it funny how these pickup idiots think it's a bad thing to compliment women and be polite. They act like calling a woman gorgeous or beautiful is "beta male" behavior lol. Being a gentleman that takes the lead seems to work just fine :)