Little seems to piss off feminists more than prostitution, i.e. women overtly trading sex for money. Let's not get into the issue of sex trafficking. From what I can tell, with what I know of that industry, you normally have women making a deliberate choice to whore themselves out. Particularly in the higher-class sector I don't believe for even a second that the women are "forced" or "exploited". Instead, they charge a few hundred bucks, or a couple thou' if they are famous. Also, there are plenty of stories floating around of whores who refused to have sex with some clients. That doesn't really fit the exploitation narrative, it seems.
An interesting remark Lucretius Carus made on this blog some time ago was that you are rewarding a whore twice: you fuck her, and you pay her money. However, think of if from a different perspective: you pay for a service, and that's it. If you have qualms about paying whores, or can't afford them, but you still want to have sex regularly, your best bet it entering a relationship. Yet, the arrangement of maintaining a relationship just for sex must be one of the most debilitating experiences a man can have. If all you want is sex, and you need to spend time, money and attention on a girlfriend you only keep around because you can't pull chicks on the regular or don't want to pay for whores, your deal is unbelievably bad, even if you put a low monetary value on your time. Compared to that, I consider it rather "alpha" to just pay for the kind of service you desire. Yes, Lucretius Carus is right that she gets money and sex. However, you get sex and convenience, because paying for one hour with a whore also frees many hours you would have to invest otherwise, either for picking up chicks, or for relationship maintenance.
On a related note, it seems that it's only feminists and betas who have qualms about whores. Among the better off, paying whores is a completely natural thing, maybe comparable to getting some coffee to go. A regular Joe can afford it, but if he got coffee at Starbucks twice a day it would make a dent in his finances. Likewise, people who draw a decent paycheck can afford whores, but probably not every day.
In my adolescence and up to my mid-20s I just didn't care much about sex at all as I considered women to be a distraction. Of course I knew that there are whores on this planet, and my perception was that this was a shady business. That may well be the case. However, I had two encounters that made me realize that for some people the moral dimension just isn't there. I grew up in a reasonably stable environment, but didn't know any one-percenters. One night, though, I found myself at some student bar and some guy I kind of knew sat down next to me. He was slowly getting drunk, and we had a pretty good conversation. The night went on, and then the lights went on --- and we were asked to leave. Then the guy said that he had wanted to pull chicks, but that was no longer an option since it was too late now. He announced that he'll hail a cab to get to a brothel, "and I'll pay for you, too. No, I'll pay for two." He told me some stories about the whores he seemed to bang regularly, which I found quite hilarious, and remarked that if X was on duty, he'll insist that I fuck her before him. Eventually, a cab rolled up, but I was hesitant. "What are you waiting for, get in. It's on me!" That could have been a great male bonding experience, but instead I wondered why I should bother trying to have sex with a hooker if I didn't bother trying to have sex with the other women I knew. Anyway, I declined, but it struck me that for him paying for sex was just a matter of convenience. That guy had quite a reputation as a player, in fact.
Another instance was when I hung out with some random dudes. As it often is the case, when people get drunk, they talk about a lot of things. So, there was this one guy who seemed very well off, and he started telling stories of his teenage years. The story was that his parents had a big house, were often gone, and they gave him a rather generous allowance, probably more than most people earn. Normally, you'd think that teenagers in that situation would invite friends and have a party. Instead, that guy booked escorts "for company". Of course, when people tell stories, they tend to exaggerate, but I had no reason to doubt the veracity of his stories in principle, i.e. rich kid, not many friends, and no one home. If money is of no concern, then you can of course be nonchalant with regards to paying whores. Oh, wait, high-class whores are of course "escorts".
When I think of all the times when guys told me they are whore mongers, in fact, it is often about convenience. This leads me to the conclusion that the image of whore mongers as "losers" is little more than feminist propaganda. Of course, it serves the women very well if men have hang ups about banging whores. Recall that some people find themselves in relationships because they want to have sex, and then they end up not getting that much sex, but still have to maintain a relationship. Compared to that, whore mongering is clearly an alpha activity. For women, collectively, it's a worse deal if guys bang whores.
What do you think? Let me know in the comments below!
(Also, if you’ve got a comment that is off-topic or only tangentially related to this article, then please post in the most recent Open Thread. Thank you.)
Well written Aaron.
ReplyDeleteFirst time I've been to a brothel was this year, have been there a couple times now.
It's really a good deal also because their company is kind of nice and uncomplicated. I'd say that I'm a nice guy, so they have a good time, which in turn makes me have a good time. So I'm basically paying for a good time which includes sex. Very convenient indeed.
Most of them don't kiss, which I thought would be an issue in the beginning, but it really isn't.
My BS tolerance with women was low before, but now it seems to be even lower. I guess this is a little side effect :)
Anyway, I recommend a visit to a brothel to anyone, even if it's just once, just to feel the convenience.
Here's another take on this from John (Lifestyle journey). It's not a coincidence that multiple smart people with critical reasoning abilities come to the same conclusions independently. This is because this conclusion is pure logic.
ReplyDeletehttp://lifestylejourney.blogspot.mk/2011/10/paying-for-sex-is-more-alpha-than-using.html
p.s. a friend I had sent this link to years ago contacted me recently. He was like dude, i should have listened to you so much earlier. I wasted years being stubborn and not getting it over with by going to a pro.
I've heard this story from multiple guys. They used escorts as a way to "kickstart" their mojo, and then actually start getting some "free sex" as well. Its a good way of kickstarting a positive feedback loop.
This is truth from the mountain! And it's been the same with me. Twelve years ago in Berlin I had my high time going through almost all good brothels and using the good escort services in a structured way, as not to miss any delicious goodies. I had the money to burn at that time and that was my two years of easy, convenient, relaxing and enjoyable sex with the hottest girls I'd ever laid my nice, filthy hands on without any kind of hassle, bitchiness or rejection. It was real sexual WYSIWYG. Of course, it didn't make me develop any real masculine traits. And at that time my body wasn't really toned & trained (just thin), I didn't know how to sexually stereotype, had no idea about choosing the right venues, how females communicate interest and just how massively far I could go with girls. But at that time I effectively also didn't need to. I still regularly banged the hottest chix in my life, hands down. (Just remembering on of those relaxed days, when I was so massively horny that I could schedule three two-hour sessions with three different girls, one in the morning, one in the afternoon and one at night, doing a bit of work in-between, having a nice lunch, a nice walk in the park, maybe meeting some friend (male or female) for a quick coffee somewhere between my sex-venues… and then purely enjoying this awesome sex-sessions with three different juicy girls and leaving as a free man each time afterwards… those are still priceless memories. The prime positive sexual feedback-loop notion this develops is: "Uuuuh, women are so great, so beautiful and sex is so smooth and just so super-cool. Ok, maybe not as super-super-cool as XY [insert your favorite hobby/occupation], but certainly no.2 or no.3 on the list."
DeleteAlex Novy, I do remember a great comment interchange between you and Sleazy, where you talked about rockstars and pimps who – as opposed to the regular Joe –with women just "get right to the good part". And it was exactly that kind of feeling! You get right to the juice.
What I do find interesting in retrospect is, that – even though at that time I considered myself a "loser with women" – I wasn't afraid of interacting with hot girls in real life (I just wasn't sexually aggressive enough) at all, because I secretly WAS fucking hot, young "supermodel quality" girls, so encountering somewhat hot or cute girls in everyday life didn't get me nervous at all, but also didn't arouse me that much either, since I was treating myself regularly with the real good stuff.
And another aspect which seems so absurd looking back on it, was that some of my not-so-close-friends really got the impression that I must have been a total womanizer and "great with girls". (Which absolutely wasn't the case, I can assure anyone of that.) But just from having had so much hassle-free pay-sex on the side with real hotties I must have given off a noticeable state of relaxation, smoothness and deep satisfaction, which from the outside had them perceive me in such a misleading way…
In Japan it is incredibly convenient and easy to purchase sex( although strangely it is illegal). I suspect this is one reason for their declining population.
ReplyDeleteLol no. You're confusing the causality. The reason for a declining population anywhere is the level of bitchiness of the female population.
DeleteWatch any documentary on the "love problems" of the japanese population, you'll see what I'm talking about. They're interviewing the Japanese women, and all these fours and fives are like "I won't settle for anything less than a super-tall, super-charismatic, super-rich, super-buff miracle of a man, everybody is a loser, i just reject everyone". Mind you, this is from documentaries sympathetic with the poor wimminz who can't find themselves a man.
Arrogant, condenscending women that you can't win with, are the reason why men give up. True in any population with declining rates.
Porn & prostitution just makes it a little easier for men to give up on dating & mating... but its not the reason why men choose to give up in the first place.
I believe it is only illegal to buy vaginal sex in Japan. There are many blowjob bars and full body massage salons (called soaplands) which are perfectly legal.
Delete@ Master Novy: again, great wording! Yes, the level of female choosiness in a society/population is the determining factor. Again, this is pure evolutionary biology.
DeleteBut you way of phrasing it is so much more evocative, I love it: "The reason for a declining population anywhere is the level of bitchiness of the female population. […] Arrogant, condenscending women that you can't win with, are the reason why men give up. True in any population with declining rates. Porn & prostitution just makes it a little easier for men to give up on dating & mating... but it's not the reason why men choose to give up in the first place."
Truth from the mountain!
Yep, Alek, and that's why it is a nonsense to talk about "asian women" in a whole. You must differentiate "east asian women" (western bitchiness levels) and "southeast asian women" (also "central asian women" but I have no experience with them).
DeleteI do remember my original comment, Aaron. If I remember it correctly, the motivation behind this comment was the notion, that – since women can (at least theoretically) perfectly provide for themselves nowadays – women really shouldn't be paid unnecessary bonuses any longer, and I considered prostitution to be one of those no longer required female subsidies. Men shouldn't pay women for access to their body (and no guarantee for sexual fulfillment or even basic "good service"), while always getting somewhat financially ripped-off in the process. What I didn't really get at that time was the banale evolutionary notion, that the exchange of access to sex for male provision is the basic male/female-business model for all mammals. It's been deeply programmed into our human DNA and that's just the way it is. It is one of the profound dilemmata of this world as it is (and as Lawrence Krauss once stated to aptly: "The universe certainly doesn't exist for us to be 'happy'.")
ReplyDeleteBut just to mention this important aspect again: yes, pay-sex does get you much more sex with (hopefully) hot chix, but as a man pay-sex all unto itself doesn't help you to develop your masculine traits, because you don't have to fight for anything and you don't need to confront frustration or denial of access. You don't need to weasle yourself into tha pussies, like a sperm-cell. You can just pay your way to your goal with dough. This is important to note, because evolutionary speaking almost all of our core male survival-based traits and strengths did evolve in order to most successfully propagate our genetic code. What makes us truly great as men, is that we as men are so much more capable of confronting and changing this world and that we overall own so much more healthy and assertive genes precisely because of this cruel & unfair mechanisms of female and evolutionary selection.
The traits we need to "fuck" this world (figuratively speaking) and make our way through it are the same we need to get girls into the sack and fuck them – and then try to handle them without getting destroyed by them.
Lucretius said:
Delete"but as a man pay-sex all unto itself doesn't help you to develop your masculine traits, because you don't have to fight for anything and you don't need to confront frustration or denial of access"
But you need to do those things in order to get the money. Overall society is better off if men are putting those masculine traits into acquiring money, rather than into "acquiring pussy", and it just feels better.
Like, as a man you need to be persistent, strong-willed and come up with a creative new product or service to make a lot of money.
If men choose this path of mastery (innovation that brings them money), we all benefit.
If a man stubbornly tries 550 different ways to make a lightbulb, we get the lightbulb.
If a man stubbornly tries 550 different approaches until he finds one that gets chicks to open up, that's a net loss for everyone, just wasted masculinity and creativity.
Guys who get laid by having to come up with a creative new album, they get laid with the groupies and fans, but we get a great new album. It's a win-win-win.
Same thing with buying sex. It's just all around better. And me personally, I have never felt fullfilled by getting a lay through persistance... But I have always felt amazing about coming up with a business strategy that works or a new service/product that customers love. It's WAAAAY more fulffiling.
Go to a sugarbaby site and you'll find a heeps of hot girls, particularly in the 18-22 ranges effectively whoring themselves. And doing so of their own free will. I've never seen a higher concentration of young, hot girls in online dating. And the roles of guys and girls are reversed, because making money is actually hard and you're born pretty.
ReplyDeleteTraditional prostitution is taboo and shamed, but a lot of girls are more willing to trade sex for money. Especially when you call it something else, like sugaring.
Interesting arguments, but isn't the STD risk higher with prostitutes/escorts?
ReplyDeletea) Depends on the country and/or on the price of the service. The better brothels, whores & escorts will get themselves checked regularly, since it's in their very own interest. Sex w/o condoms is an absolute red-flag. Some offer you BJ w/o condoms and/or kissing you (even french-kissing) or will gladly just perform it on you, if they like you and appreciate your level of hygiene.
Deleteb) You can never really know, how your supposed girl-next-door hookup actually fared sexually before you met her...
c) the very best protection against STDs is either strictly enforced monogamy or celibacy, anyway...
"...will get themselves checked regularly, since it's in their very own interest."
ReplyDeleteYes, and if a prostitute discovers that she has contracted for example Hep C, would it be in her own interest to stop with prostitution?
Aaron, your impression of prostitution in, say, the NATO-zone, is pretty fair inasmuch as it implies to the un-connected free market. This is probably what most of your readers (and you?) might be interested in trying, or at least contemplating the morality/legality of.
ReplyDeleteWhen you talk to people about "whores," though, there's the sheltered definition--either cheap junkies, backpage stuff, or professional escorts--and then there's the un-sheltered definition, e.g., Eastern European slaves used in Israel, or Thai slaves rotated in and out of D.C./New York for politicos.
When it comes to people whining about whether or not responsible adult professionals charge $450/hour for sex, it's legitimate for you to critique those people as "beta" or "feminist" or whatever other Greek letters you prefer. But it's completely understandable that someone browsing the internet might read your page, see you speaking positively about prostitution, and think you were defending the right of investment bankers to fly to Thailand in order to ream 8-year-old orphans--or the 28-year-old slave-whores that those orphans grow up into.
In European countries where prostitution is legal, like the Netherlands, there are very few forced prostitutes (compared to the total number there is). They don't even need pimps, as they can call the police to protect them (normally) if there is a problem with, say, a violent customer (even though I saw one chasing a disrespectful tourist with a baseball bat once, so it's not always necessary :p). There are also unions for sex workers.
DeleteEven where it's not legal (again, in Europe) there are willing prostitutes.
But in other countries like France, where this stuff is underground, there is much more abuse going on. Like Ghanean or Chinese prostitutes being sexually exploited and sold for very low prices (€5 or something) by the people who make them come illegally to the country and then force them to work for them. For the underage forced prostitution, this is not really the same topic as normal prostitution because, well, it's for pedophiles, who probably know the people and places to go to for that, because I'm sure you can't find that kind of stuff (even in Thailand or Morocco) by just clicking your fingers.
Those are human/sexual trafficking criminal networks, not your typical escort agency/independent prostitute.
So I believe only dishonest people, or those who think EVERY prostitute is being abused, would even try to accuse Sleazy of being for sexual slavery, don't worry :).
Miss the days when I would get together with my buddy in Germany and we would hit up the FKK brothels to fvck the hot eastern european women for under 100 euros!
ReplyDeleteHere you see the real difference between alpha and beta.
ReplyDeleteAlpha really just wants to fuck. If you just want to have sex, paying for it has probably the best ROI.
If betas say that paying for it don't "feel right", they have an ego problem.
alpha wants to have sex - beta wants to gain approval, he doesn't care about the sex.
One of my favorite anti-pua articles of all time, was John's "the pua scam".
Deletehttp://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/2010/02/pua-scam.html
It basically just demonstrates that these are just groups of men substituting one form of approval begging for another.
They spend all their time mocking "betas" and "chodes"... When in essence, fundamentally they're the same, begging for female approval.
That's why "I got laid with an eight who was initially repulsed by me" gives you bragging rights".
Yet getting set up by friends with a ten is considered "lame".
If they were about getting laid, then they would focus on "the most efficient way to get as many lays per unit of effort"...
That was covered here:
http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2012/02/dirty-secret-of-community.html
Well said. The PUA stuff is just another version of feminism--asshole marketers trying to make money by convincing one sex how cool it is to cheat the other sex.
Delete