Sunday, September 5, 2010

Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor (II)

If you have liked my previous post Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor, then you will love this follow up. There were some more recent developments and ForeverDrake asked me to post the following on my blog. Prepare for an awful lot of drama and some interesting insights into the shady side of the seduction industry.


Bravo Nathan!

It's nice to see that Nathan PUA has gone the route of denying this incident altogether. Hey, maybe Speer can defend Nathan some more too. Or you guys could try the route of accusing me of being unable to differentiate the simple act of somebody resting on my shoulders versus somebody literally grabbing the back of my neck. Oh wait, you guys did! Nice! I couldn't believe you could stoop any lower Nathan, but you have, instead of offering me a sincere apology you have decided to deny this incident... ALTOGETHER!

This is seriously more drama than I'd like to deal with but when a manipulative person attempts to deny his actions and then make me out to look bad then I have to step in and do something about it, I hope you understand Nathan. :)

I was going to let this go, I really was, but you seriously expect me to let this go after you try to DENY this ENTIRE situation and then have Speer on the podcast to defend YOU?

Nice job man! I can tell you have a lot of integrity. :)

Too bad you were a dumbass and decided to grab my neck in a convention room FULL of people. I can easily round up witnesses to the incident if you'd like Nathan or Speer. The only fucking reason I didn't beat the shit out of you right there was because... 1. I was in a convention that my buddy ran and there was a Q&A panel going on up front, I didn't want to ruin the footage of this. 2. You're a millionaire, clearly you're going to sue me if you were already threatening to, I doubt I can explain myself out of beating your ass in a crowd full of about 50 people, even though you're trying to deny and explain yourself out of grabbing my neck in a room of about 50 people. For anyone reading, feel free to call me a pussy all you'd like. If me not wanting to get sued by a millionaire is being a pussy, then I'm a pussy. :)

Now, he did it in a room full of people, I'm sure many people have already stepped up to confirm this as witnesses. But allow me to list 2 witnesses right now. Members "MisterB" and "Jedi" from the DC Lair "TheAttractionVault" were witnesses to this. MisterB was right next to me when this happened. Jedi was behind me when this happened. Here's what Jedi had to say about the neck grabbing when I asked him about it.

July 30, 2010 at 1:39pm
(no subject)
yes, it was vicious too

Obviously, Psych did not cut off ALL affiliations with you (Nathan) if you simply rested your hand on my back, but instead you verbally threatened me and grabbed my neck. That is why Psych cut off affiliations with you and that is why this entire situation has been blown to such massive proportions. Although I am not quite 100% sure why Psych didn't cut off affiliations with you sooner during those nut grabbing/hitting allegations, who knows. I still feel right now that him cutting affiliations with you was a publicity stunt because of all the negative attention he has received through this entire ordeal.

And of course, Dream banned you from all further 21 convention events because of your actions towards me. He obviously didn't do this because you "rested your hands on me" or whatever bullshit you decided to tell Speer. Dream will back me up on this and so will several (almost all) the other coaches at the convention have said so. Hshudo has my back in this as well. I don't believe anybody has taken your side in this entire situation either, except perhaps Speer, unless he's not taking your side but that you simply managed to convince him of your lies, who knows? All I can say is, if Speer or anybody decides to defend you then they are no friend of mine.

There is clearly something to be said about Speer's integrity if he is seriously deciding to defend Nathan so I did a little bit of digging, it wasn't hard to find these few posts. Seriously dude, if you're really going to defend Nathan then go ahead. Paraphrasing what you said on the recent podcast, you said that Nathan (or anybody) is free to market or advertise your products and bootcamps because Nathan didn't personally do anything to you. So, if he hits a past student in the testicles and then grabs another former student by the neck, you don't mind this person advertising and marketing you? That says a lot about your character
Speer .

And don't bother trying to sue me Speer. I'm just stating my opinions and quoting other people.

This post is by "AnacondaMMA", a member on the casanovacrew forums. Also as an added note, NONE of the e-mails or posts that I will now proceed to quote have been edited in any way, shape, or form. They are the original unedited versions of the quote. And you can easily look these people up (well, somewhat easily) and contact them to verify the validity of these statements.

Oh helllllllllll no! I try not to "troll" or whatever the hell it's called and I dont want to talk shit about anyone I've never met. But Speer - FUCK YOU IN THE FACE. Man I want to bitch slap that guy so bad...

How is that asshole going to say that he's against suing a student when he threatened to sue one of my best friends for asking for a refund MORE THAN ONCE during a bootcamp and then even called him again to make sure he wasn't telling anyone about their conversation.

Now my boy is probably going to get mad at me for letting this out but if Speer wanna sue someone, he can sue me.

And while I'm calling him out so I dont have to keep yammering in post after post. I thought he was really douchey at the SNL seminar walking through a speech SEVERAL TIMES that I enjoyed WAAAAAY more than his and acting like he was king shit. I wasn't the only one to notice that either.

OK. Enough of my shit talking but I swear that the above is 100% true.

Hmm... Nice. Here's another quote from this guy. Wow, your bootcamps sound awesome Speer. I totally want to take one with you now. Not.

his was over a year ago so I may not be EXACT on all of this but here's a laundry list:

he was at least 2 hours late

Speer told my buddy to listen to his (speers) ipod while he was off doing something else

He told my buddy he needs to see a shrink after my buddy asked for his money back

he threatened to sue him in writing after my buddy requested a refund through Paypal

Speer took him "daygaming" to a bunch of clothing stores and told him to hit on the gay dudes there to practice and get good discounts. (WTF?!?)

Speer also told him that all of the other ppl had cancelled on the bootcamp so he couldnt give the money back because he wouldnt be able to cover his costs.

We actually call getting ripped off "Schlomo'd" now. Cause that's his real name.

This sounds mad shitty. And after he wanted a refund you threatened to sue him and told him that he needed psychiatric help? Good job bro.

Here's a post by "Santa", also a member on the casanova crew forums.

I don't even know what the above is about. Did not listen to that episode, but who cares who you are affiliated with or not. You could not explain your way out of a paper bag. I remember when you came to our layer talk and shot bs and belittled members and then shot a video of the lair members outside with you giving a speech as if you were some great leader promising to take everyone on a bootcamp like adventure for free. And then disappeared...

I didn't even have to dig hard to find negative things said about you bro. One of the top speakers / coaches at the convention also said some pretty negative things about you Speer. He said you have mad game, but that your training and teachings and bootcamps are not worth taking. Won't specify who said it, but he's voted one of the top 3 pick up artists in the world.

Enough of Speer, now back to Nathan.

Hey Nathan PUA, remember Aaron Sleazy? Yeah, the guy you tried ripping off a couple months ago. You tried getting him to give you and your buddy free training and a free talk so that YOU MADE THE PROFIT. And when the date of the event drew ever closer he had declined your obviously manipulative offer, and when he did, remember what you did? Of course you do, you sent an e-mail to everyone who was going to attend the event and said that you had to cut off your ties with Sleazy and then you said you found out he was involved in "unethical" business actions when it was you who was doing the "unethical" behavior.
Sleazy has got my back on this too.

Or feel free to check out the thread I made on mASF.
I know many guys who replied to that thread / have personally been in-field with them. These are pretty successful guys who have my back on this issue as well.

Or hey, how about that thread you started on the PUAhate forum. You know, the one you accuse BradP of being a rapist which is clearly untrue. Now THAT is slander. Too bad that website apparently does IP tracing or you were stupid enough to use your real e-mail address when creating that "GiantsFan" account...
Can't explain yourself out of this one, can ya Nathan? Of course you can't, but feel free to deny it as I already know you will, just as you denied that you actually grabbed my neck. Only a complete idiot would believe somebody like you. If this link isn't so familiar then how about this one?
Yeah, Nathan posted this on the PUAhate forum AND the casanova crew forum. Sad. Did you really think you wouldn't get exposed for this?
BradP has already got my back on this. I think this is the article that sparked so much rage inside of you.

Libido and Ratisse also have my back on this incident.

Here's a post from "ProtaJ" a member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

I felt the same way when we were at the beach. Nathan pressure me to do a bootcamp and when I told him I didn't think I needed one, he ran to you and told you that I said I was too advanced. I think you have a good program and are working hard to make it better and provide more value, but I am concerned with the people who represent you.

You're a really high pressure salesman, and Psych must be aware of these things yet he let them happen. Heartwork and Psych also watched you try to pitch me another bootcamp ($695 dollars that I was unwilling to pay) when I was simply asking for a sixty dollar refund. Which could easily have been split up into thirty dollars for Heartwork and thirty dollars for Psych to pay. But oh well. Now all this drama had to unfold.

Another post on TopLair by "Psych" himself.
Brad P is just trying to talk badly about me to hurt other competing instructors.

I am NOT a part of this drama and am simply guilty by association at this point. I firmly stand by what I teach and think I give an amazing program considering the price point. I know some guys from toplair just took a bootcamp with me so I'd like to see their reviews and you can all draw your own conclusions. I'm not going to comment on the incident other than simply saying I had nothing to do with it what so ever. You either need to talk to foreverdrake or nathanpua.

This post is strange because Psych himself said on the podcast that he does not think Brad was trying to rail on him in his blog post, yet here he is saying the opposite, which is that he believes BradP was intentionally talking badly about him just to hurt competing instructors.

Here's a message from your buddy Heartwork, an e-mail I received the day after this neck grabbing incident.

from the information that I gathered from what Nathan did was completely out of line. Having just met the guy this weekend I know I can't be associated with anything/anyone that conducts business in that way. I have actually turned down their offer to assist them on an upcoming program because of it. I also have a lot of respect for your self control to not take physical action when it happened.

Everybody seems so sure you grabbed me by the neck, I wonder why? Oh, maybe because... You did.

Heartwork's e-mail continued.

Now here is my real concern, i have only met nate this weekend and have learned one thing, he is an angry dude, that does not know how to deal with people, with waaaay too much money just lying on his hands. Now even though I don't see myself ever talking to him again, I really think that if you start saying stuff about him somewhere, he will take some legal action, which I think is terrible but can't help but be concerned with how it will play out. Although there is really no case, paying lawyers, and making an annoying situation. I think you have the right to say what nate did and should but I think he will do something about it. I'm letting you know this as a friend would hate to see your money, family, and free time get involved in whatever nate does legally.

it was also nate who told me and jarrett not to pay the refund, I would have liked to just split it with jarrett. Which I hope I can still convince jarrett of because I hate that something we were involved with a year ago resulted in someone actually threatening you. Simply because that happened (regardless of how long ago it was) registers to me as a very legitimate reason for a refund. And I still stand by paying the refund regardless of what you decide to do. Nates actions came from him being mad that you were saying something bad about jarrett hurts his business. I think jarrett will agree with me, that he, as nates buisness partner, needs to get nate to apologize to you and compensate what happened and I want jarrett and I (or at least me) to resolve our conflict entirety separate of nates influence.

Really? Scare tactics? Nice. And according to Heartwork, it was entirely your fault that this entire incident happened, which I might add... Was only over $60 dollars. Nice one man, you're a millionaire but you can't spare sixty freaking dollars? Hmmm... Greedy much?

I also find it entirely too hilarious that Psych and Heartwork were seriously going to let you JUST apologize to me and then pay me back the 60 dollars and then call it the end of that. This e-mail is the main one that convinced me that Psych's cutting off his affiliations with Nathan was entirely a publicity act. Nice. Psych wanted to just get you to apologize to me and then end this entire situation off that, as if an apology would fix that, it's not like you can just go around and grab former students by the neck all day long and say "Oh, sorry, my hand slipped!" and expect it all to be over with. By the way, don't even try apologizing to me, you're such a manipulative creep that I believe anything you say will be a contrived and forced apology just for publicity sake. I will not accept any apology you attempt to convey to me.

Heartwork's e-mail continued even further. And sorry I had to post this Heartwork. I know you're going to read this eventually, the only reason I'm posting this is because you lied blatantly to my face when I was asking for a refund as cheap as sixty dollars. But hey, feel free to repost any e-mails I sent you if you'd like man, I have nothing to hide.

I have not talked to nathan since the convention but have talked to psych. I know I personally think nate is a fucking psychopath for doing that and want zero affiliation even from knowing him or his actions. Me and psych both FREAKED about what happened and was an all too late eye opener for someone like psych who is in an actual business relationship with him. Immediately after the fact I washed my hands of him and psych I am sure is plotting his way out. This has nothing to do with a bad reputation or anything like that getting out, this is general safety and concern shit.

As far as his actions I want zero affiliation by making speculations of what he would do, that could be used against me in any legal way, because of his unpredictable and connected nature. I just know he has a shitload of money, sketchy political connections that gets him that money, and a ruthless attitude. I think he will try to convince a judge that you took business away from him during the convention through slander. Which would be a long and expensive process. I even heard of him getting a few people at the convention to admit that you had said something negative towards his affiliations to start formulating an argument if needed. The guy is nuts and I want NOTHING to do with this or him for my own safety and security.

I do honestly think people should know about his actions and he should be held accountable, also you will never hear me say a good thing about him word of mouth, but as far as creating documented evidence that he could take and use just screams as a bad idea in my mind.

So, how's that look Nathan? Heartwork AND Psych are in agreement that you physically grabbed my neck. Haha.

I'm not too sure about Psych but I do not know why Heartwork is a coach. I am his former student, I simply asked for a sixty dollar refund, it was originally one hundred dollars but he mentioned a limousine ride we took to get there and supposedly my share of it was forty dollars which I don't believe but whatever, so I subtracted forty from it. It was sixty dollars and it was still very clear he was unwilling to pay even that amount, which was really just thirty dollars if Heartwork and Psych each split up the sixty. They make literally over 10 times that amount PER student PER boot camp. That got me pretty curious.

Then recently Heartwork got really drunk and so did Vin DiCarlo's trainer Brian, and they both had a slapping contest with each other while they were both drunk. Heartwork got hit so hard he got knocked out. Then when Jared attempts to question Psych about this on the podcast, Psych defends Heartwork. Really? A 20 year old who gets drunk on a regular basis, neglects and ignores his former students, refuses refunds for bad training, and gets in literally a slapping contest with another trainer, gets knocked out, and goes to the hospital to get stitches... Is still a quality trainer? I'd personally say no. And no Heartwork, you can't deny this fact. It is on film, why would you be dumb enough to let people video-record your slapping contest anyways? That's almost as dumb as Nathan grabbing my neck in a crowded room full of credible witnesses and then denying it a couple weeks later. Just pure ignorance.

Hey, how about this statement from my buddy, the one you intentionally cockblocked all night during the bootcamp you did with Psych, right before he fired you.This guy is "Xtothea420", also a member of my local lair.

I could care less about the drama, but I was asked by a fellow lair member to back him up, I WILL back him up. I felt a strange vibe from Nathan as with other lair members. I could really care less about him. Through befriending him, I have noticed he has a very strong tendency to pester people on buying Psych's product. I tell him I have no money. Here is the text shared:

Nathan: U need to make getting this area of your life taken care of a priority
Me: If only you knew my friend...if only you knew
Nathan: I know its tough. A credit card min payment is like $20/mon. 2 drinks/mon. to have success with women is not affordable? R u serious? =[

After telling him I possess no credit card, job, and I live with my parents, he still persists by cutting me a discount: from $600 to $500. I tell him I will decide within 24 hours. I tell him I cannot make it. He is a salesman. I can understand why he is so persistent so I shrug off the negative aspect of his character.

Fast forward to Saturday. I show up to Ibar as Psych's bootcamp is underway. I tell Psych I am NOT trying to intrude. I have friends there who are and aren't in the bootcamp who I would like to chill with. After a few hours of hanging with everybody I notice HBfishnet. I open the set by myself, hook, and then bounce. She wants to meet my friends so I introduce her to Nathan. Nathan notices I'm with her, after all I just introduced you to her. He shakes her hand and runs kino....I'm thinking "alright, work your magic lets see what you've got". I continue conversation with a fellow lair member taking the bootcamp. He wants to tell me something, but he doesn't want to say it with Nathan around. I shrug it off and think nothing of it. Later in the set, I take my target back. Next thing you know there are guys coming out of the wood work AMOG'ing me. I FINALLY hear what my friend was trying to tell me when Nathan was near us. Here is the text, word-for-word:

"that Nathan guy was getting mad when he saw u with that girl, called u a chode who's not on the bootcamp and was telling ppl to amog u. he claims he fucked her".

Still to this day, I don't give a shit. If he wishes to try to steal sets from others and then blame it on the individual thats fine. Have fun doing it in NYC, I no longer have to hear from you.

Or how about this statement from my buddy, he's going to get pissed at me for posting this but I can't allow your lies to keep spreading Nathan ol' buddy. By "BuckNut", member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

The night I put a down payment down at HOB a week earlier I had no intention of doing a bootcamp but did it mainly because I was impressed with the feedback of doing sets with a microphone and the price of 395 for 3 intense days of training; because I know most bootcamps are like 600 to 5000 dollars so that did me in. He pressured me by saying each day it goes up 100 dollars and that "I need to do get this part of my life taken care of" our bootcamp will take 6 months off your learning curve.

I then researched and saw psyche was more of a natural game which I don't feel I need right now; and remember doing sets with the other kid from New York that was like their most loyal student and remember how bad he sucked and also felt like it would mean a lot to spend more time on vacation with my relatives who took time off

I told Nathan Saturday night this at Ibar; he seemed a little frustrated at first and then he put a microphone on me and had me do more sets and spent like an hour with me. He said he saw great improvement in me already from one week; and that he thinks I can be really good and he enjoys working with me; I just need to take the bootcamp to get over the hump; that my only other options would be go to new york a week later or wait two years till they come back to orlando. Kept repeating that I have hit a plateau and I need to get this part of my life taking care of and the bootcamp will do it and that if I want to be good bad enough I will find a way to make it happen. Then he saw Pysche outside who was debating coming in and told him to get in there and then whispered to pysche. Pysche came in and said listen I was already planning all these exercises for you after we spoke about your sticking points. If u say u are having trouble keeping the conversation going give me 3 days and u will be fixed; i will get u to be more exciting in set I have wrote a book on it; etc.. I will take 6 mnths off ur development and u have to make this happen and get this part of you taken care of if you want it bad enough. Tell ur cousin u are doing this too improve yourself he would think it's awesome; You can make it happen; he basically got in my grill and kept talking with straight on body language and deflecting my no's until I said I would do it.

---------sunday I was still a little unsure but was going to do it and then after I spoke to u I was sure no I am not doing it. Told nathan this as well I still couldn't do it sunday and he brought me to sit on a couch and kept repeating the same stuff as before; acting confused as to why even though i was telling him my vacation situation.

Then Eric aka turntrable said no dude your doing it and gave me like a 10 minute speech; like it would mean a lot to have u there; i went to the beach with these guys and I think they are great guys; it will take our game to a whole new level. stop giving me excuses i know u can do it listen as a friend it would mean a ton to me if u were there; u are doing it. Chris never said much but was a little upset like "why" when I told him I wasn't going.

Nathan then spoke to me again after psyche's speech and had psyche come up and psyche goes "i thought we already discussed this yesterday". kept pushing said we will be doing over 200 sets individually blah blah blah......I've gamed with Sinn, with everybody; my style fits anyone I don't care if u use routines; I will personally coach u and make sure you improve. I'm not sure why I said it at this point but I said I had heard bad things--- maybe because they were not taking no for an answer on anything else I told them.

At that point I just started getting all these guarantees and about how it was a different team last year; put there arm around me said let's go to the ATM and started walking and trying to ensure me the whole time....... so sad to say but I did end up doing the course. And then after I saw him come up straight to u and threaten to sue I felt some buyers remorse like I have just found out the true answer.

I will not be afraid to post about how I did not learn anything if that becomes the case and say I do not recommend it.

----I think I should of gotten the cue one when I realized they were going to be dicks about giving my 100 dollars back due to a family/flight situation and two---being high pressure and not giving me space. That should of been all i needed right there.

But it is a learning experience.

If you keep spreading your lies, I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

And in the unlikely event that you gather enough balls to get on the podcast and try to defend your unjustifiable actions and lies that you've done so far, I will get on the same podcast too at the SAME TIME and keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

Just try spreading your lies on Jared's podcast while I'm also on the line to clarify whatever bullshit lies you're spitting man. I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

I'm not letting you guys trick another person nor am I going to let anybody else go through what I went through. You're not going to get away with this. Except with anybody ignorant enough to know about all this and after having read all of this, still decide to be affiliated with you, I sincerely pity anybody like that of course.

Going to quote Manwhore on what he wrote about me here on the RSDnation forum.

Let's not turn this into internet KJ town.

When homeboy sounded off on this nathan dude the entire convention shut the fuck up. I conducted training for hundreds of Soldiers in urban operations.. I know the sound of shock n awe. I'm sure "nathan pua" poo'ed his pants on the spot and learned a valuable lesson.

It's funny how you can grab my neck because I'm busy paying attention to a Q&A panel up front but when I get in your face and confront you about it, you just shut the fuck up and call me "crazy" and say that I "have anger issues" and that I "need counseling." Very classy of you man. Stay classy man.

Oh, and another thing, next time you see me... Feel free to grab my neck again. See what fucking happens.

For legal reasons, nothing I have written here is a threat in any way, shape, or form. I am not affiliated with BradP or any other companies as well.

Have a nice day.

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