PUA "Gunwitch" Shoots Girl in Face, Fans Still Love Him

The seduction industry is in massive decline. Unethical business practices are common, censoring of critical voices on PUA forums the norm, and when I thought that the case of "guru" Nathan PUA and Psych physically attacking a student was about as low as it gets, I checked my email account and saw that a handful of people emailed me that "guru" Gunwitch has defined the new low — by shooting a woman in the face. I was speechless. But first things first.

Who is "Gunwitch", you may ask?

It is this fellow:

Gunwitch at Klamath County Jail

But before he got put into jail, he built a reputation for his seduction method, called "Gunwitch method" on mASF/Fastseduction.com. The phrase he is most well known is, "Make the ho say no." The other one is "get laid, not liked", which is probably not the wisest choice for a tag line.

For about a decade Gunwitch has been the guru mASF/Fastseduction.com associates themselves with, which you can easily see by the ads on this site. He is the only one that is officially endorsed. If you want to buy an audio file containing an interview with him, look no further. As far as I know, Gunwitch is also the only "guru" mASF/Fastseduction.com is officially allied with. While others have to pay for banners so that the site owner Formhandle doesn't have to look for a job, Gunwitch gets his ads for free.

"Gunwitch" method does have its merit among pick up theories, and it is most notable for its straightforwardness. There are elements in it which I find rather questionable as they border on stalking and sexual harassment, but with some adaptations you are infinitely better off following Gunwitch's method than Mystery Method and everything that came from it. However, when reading his materials, you get the impression that the guy behind the words is a rather difficult individual, to put it mildly.

Unfortunately, it seems that some otherwise incriminating evidence has been pulled off the Internet. For instance, there was an addendum to the Gunwitch method in which he talks about picking up girls in clubs and also goes into what to do when you get into a fight. No, he didn't advocate never getting into one, or getting the f*** out, but had some things to say about in which order you should take out the guys that are coming after you. After I had read this part, I became rather reluctant to refer people to Gunwitch method. This was some years ago, and afterwards I stopped paying attention to this guy, so videos such as the following didn't show up on my radar:

But seeing this you wonder what had happened to him. I don't want to add to speculation, so I will not recite rumors on how he made his living besides selling his method to guys who wanted to get laid, but not liked. However, it is worth citing a relevant newspaper report:

A small New Year's Eve party at a Klamath Falls home turned violent Friday night, leaving a woman clinging to life with a gunshot wound to the face and a man arrested and jailed in the crime.

Klamath Falls police responded around 9:30 p.m. Friday to the reported shooting at 220 Mortimer St., said Officer Mike Anderson.

They arrived to find Amber Tripp, 20, of Klamath Falls, with a gunshot wound to the face.
Information gathered there about a reported suspect led officers to Allen Robert Reyes, 31, who was located in the 1800 block of Main Street, about three blocks from the shooting scene, Anderson said.

The normal reaction would be that he should stay in jail and if proven guilty, he shall bear the legal consequences for attempted murder. But, no, this is not how some people in the "community" reacted. It is no surprise that delusion is especially rampant on mASF, where one user comments:

This has got to be a joke. It really feels like one. You know what it feels like someone's making fun of my post of the other day when I explained that I may have been a little premature in judging people's character having not actually met them.....

C'mon fess up. It's a joke right.

Gunwitch fanboy and resident mASF mastermind Ockwick aka. "I have four lays under my belt in a little over a decade and thus I know more than anyone else ever could" (I still chuckle when I think back to when this guy tried to give me advice), speaks of "Wild speculation and smearing, to be expected of course." as well as of "conflicting information". Sorry, but this is quite different from the actual smear campaign that a guy like Julian Assange has to deal with.

It gets even better. Aspiring "guru" Blackdragon waxes lyrical:

I have no idea if he's guilty of this or not, but it shows that when you are PU guy, your standards of behavior must be higher than the typical guy out there, simply because it's easier for people to "go get you" if there's ever a problem like this in your life.

You are kidding me, right!? This probably means that it's fine to shoot people if your behaviour is "higher" otherwise.

Gunwitch's fan boys also have some issues with this. Here are some quotes from a thread from his official forum:

Is it possible that if someone posts bail for him, that he would be allowed to go home, until the court?

Throw in some panicking, too:

i might be paranoid, but if anyone has admin on this site maybe itd be a good idea to delete these threads? i mean its not national news (but obviously people would talk already about it)

Some user asked:

So what's going to happen to this site now? He's going to be in jail for a really long time, no question.

...to which one guy replied:

Dawg chill!

We need to hear from Gun first. there is always two sides to a story

Im sure Gun has a perfectly good reason for shooting that girl in the face

Nothing indicated that this was being ironic. And neither this:

This is sad. Hope Gun is ok.

That woman has half her face missing and this guy asks whether Gunwitch is alright?

McPhallus also has his priorities straight:

His business name is by far the least of his worries now. *If* he's guilty, he's facing a long jail sentence and he's probably fucked in the community. Getting into fights is one thing, but shooting a 20-year old chick in the face. But we'll see. Two sides to every story.

No comment on this one:

Hopfully he can call barrys show from jail, have him on as a guest every month or somthing.

He has got all the sympathies:

This leaves me with a sick taste in my stomach... I've been through the court system... it aint like the movies...where its over in 5 minutes... its way harder mentally... can drag on for years... hes gonna regret this soon

As I dug deeper on Gunwitch's forum, I started to lose faith in the human race:

The fact that he left the scene makes me suspicious because if he had a legit reason to shoot her he wouldn't have fled. This is why guns and alcohol don't mix. Having said all this I hope i'm wrong and gun is found not guilty if thats the case, but good luck finding a good lawyer with the money gun has.

The "sanest" statement was the following one:

Wow, his life is pretty much going to be like that show Oz from now on. I feel bad for him, but at the same time you can't go around shooting chicks in the face. What the hell was he thinking,

Some guy even made this graphic:

So, let's summarize this: shooting people = not cool at all. Is this really so difficult to understand?

The VA 360 Coach Development Program

A reader of my blog (thanks, Jon!) sent me a link to a offer that seems impossible not to refute. Jon writes:

Hey, big fan of the blog. I wanted to give you a heads up about what strikes me as one of the sleaziest (pardon the expression) business practices I have yet seen in the seduction community. Turns out that for $15,000 (yes, fifteen thousand) anybody can be a coach for Venusian Arts.

At first I was shaking my head in disbelief, but then I checked the link and came across a post by a Venusian Arts spokesperson. "Discovery" replies to an inquiring post of one of the sheeple:

yes, until now it has been under wraps and is a 6 month Coach Development Program to train 100 people worldwide to assist at bootcamps, do follow up coaching with students post-bootcamp and 1 on 1 coaching.

the program kicks off with 4 days and 4 nights in Vegas of Coach training and the qualification period to become a certified coach is 6 months including:

1. Coaching abilities (live practise at real bootcamps)
2. PUA skills (demo of basics a must)
3. theoretical knowledge
4. Ability to be a local ambassador in your region for Venusian Arts
5. 1 on 1 coaching with bootcamp students after the bootcamp
6. business management of your territory and region.

the program costs $14,900 and we have 2 more this year (only 10 guys worldwide max) the next 2 have earlybird offers of $11,900, which can be spread over up to 6 months).

If you want any more details contact me direct with your full contact details

this is a serious program of training professional pickup coaches and a considerable investment on your part, so please do not email me if you are not 21+ or could not afford the payment, sorry no charity requests either ;-).

Now, does anybody find a couple of things odd here?

If not, here are some strange things for starters.

1) $14,900 strikes me as a rather hefty investment, but to counter Discovery's "charity defense": what do I get in return? It strikes me that "approach coaches" are the least qualified to teach, and it's a post that has usually been filled by "interns". But money-greedy Mystery and whoever his business partner behind Venusian Arts is, apparently need more money for blow.

2) What certification are we talking about? Being a "certified coach" for Venusian Arts seems similar to being "the world's best dad/cook/lover", but the latter trophies can be had for a few bucks, even though they are just as recognized.

3) Selling a dream. The message basically is that for a few grand, you can start your own Venusian Arts franchise and be settled. But note that this is only between the line. More likely, they'll just take your money and run, similar to the many questionable for-profit universities in this world, who promise you great career prospects (despite evidence to the contrary), and are happy to take anybody who is willing to pay the fees.

Lastly, if you bother to scroll down the thread a little bit, you'll find a pure gem of mental retardation in the post of "Crunx", a dude who is currently undergoing that program. Then again, he might just be an unpaid intern who pulls stuff out of his a**:

I'm currently on the program and it's a great experience!
It's a great way to become a REAL MPUA and not just a guy that knows some material and claims to have a "MPUA"status.

The program is full learning experience which covers IT ALL! Your knowledge and ability to not only pickup HOT girls is being challenged but also the ability to teach and coach others is challenged.

No worries, you'll be given the right tools. You just make sure to bring it on!

And that's just a piece of ALL the material, that is going to be uploaded;

We're talking about High-End Psychology!
The final transformation!
Getting your skill level to a PICKUP COACH level and beyond! And not just a coach or a pickup artist.
Learning and being with like minded people, that support you in your journey.


So if you are looking for a serious program to supercharge your life, this is it!

But beware! Because your going to have some EPIC nights with the other coaches and MPUA's! But also it's a great excuse to travel around the world and making a lot of ( pua/ girl) friends.

And trust me, having some great PUA friends in your social life.... That pretty much spices everything up!

Jesus.

But what's really going on is revealed in this statement:

Thanks guys...it's kinda disconcerting that Henry Hill's negative comments about it that he posted and I got in my email appear to have been censored off here though...any reason for this?

Yeah, any reason for that, Venusian Arts?

Some critical Feedback to "Debunking", Part II

This post is the continuation of a previous one.

The email I mentioned didn’t stop with trying to defend Speed Seduction. It also questioned the role of looks, popularity and money, which I have plenty of times described as the main ingredients of seduction (no surprise, really).

The second thing is...you mention on the blog...also quoting some guy from your forum that started a thread (that had the word "fishing" in it) ...that good looking guys get the hot girls and bad looking guys the not so hot ones. Also you say being overweight is a deal breaker. I'm not trying to contradict you or start a debate or whatever... I'm just trying to make an observation and see what you think about it. Firstly I have a friend who's overweight and does good with women. He's very funny, smart and mature...girls seem to like that. He doesn't get the best looking girls yet he has never had a problem having an abundance of women in his life, both friends and lovers/fuck buddies. There's also a guy on Zan's forum, an overweight politician who does great with women. I also see quite a few overweight guys on the street holding hands with really good looking girls. I also have a friend who's really skinny and not good looking and he gets hot girls all the time. (he has a big dick but ...he's not classically good looking). The idea is ...I see quite a few not so good looking guys with good looking women ...and I can't connect this with your "theory" mentioned on the blog.

I have allowed myself to set in bold what the reason is those guys get laid. I’m really glad the guy who has sent me the email was critical enough to look for a reason beyond “game” that makes girls want to get involved with those apparently otherwise less attractive men.

Let’s just go through it in some more detail:

I have a friend who's overweight and does good with women. He's very funny, smart and mature...girls seem to like that. He doesn't get the best looking girls yet he has never had a problem having an abundance of women in his life, both friends and lovers/fuck buddies.

Yes, it’s sometimes enough if people just really like each other, and if he is “funny, smart and mature” he is in an excellent position. Of course, this doesn’t mean that he will automatically get the most attractive girls but if he is somewhat average then he does well by getting average girls himself. However, I bet that if he bothered to lose weight, he would suddenly be able to get hotter girls.

There's also a guy on Zan's forum, an overweight politician who does great with women.

Ah, politicians, this noble race which pretends to have nothing but the best in mind for society, as long as they can quench their thirst for power and money. Having lobbyists around who bribe you with tens of thousands must be sweet, and if you f*ck things up bad enough and you get voted out of office, you just get a cushy job in the private sector, incidentally in the same industry you were a benefactor of while you were in office. What happened to integrity? No, instead that dude brags about all the girls he is banging. Thankfully he can hide behind a username, but let’s just hope this comes back and haunt him once he gets more influential.

As I see it, politicians are inherently corrupt scum, up to the highest levels --- just think of “Dubya” and his cronies like Cheney, or former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, who supported a major infrastructure project by Gazprom, then the third biggest company in the world, and, surprise, surprise, was hired as an “adviser” after his tenure.

Because politicians are inherently corrupt, they have no problem accepting bribery or, “speaking fees” for tens of thousands of dollars, and they are amazing liars too. So, even if all their money and power would not get them laid, they’d surely tell you with a blank face that, no, no, no, of course they never bill their expense accounts for hookers and escorts. No, never. It’s impossible. Instead, they go out and pick up girls at Starbucks, and probably shove a wallet filled with “Benjamins” into the face of a malnourished illegal immigrant worker.

I also see quite a few overweight guys on the street holding hands with really good looking girls.

As long as you don’t know more about those guys, you don’t know what they have going for them. It could be money, power, big dicks. Heck, those might be the colleagues of that corrupt scum bag of a politician for all you know, and the girls escorts, or their daughters.

I also have a friend who's really skinny and not good looking and he gets hot girls all the time. (he has a big dick but ...he's not classically good looking).


Let me spell that for you again: he has a BIG DICK. Yes, having a big dick is a huge benefit. Forget about the “size doesn’t matter, it’s what you do with it” nonsense. Besides, I never got why having a big cock would mean that you automatically have no clue how to use it.

This reminds me of one of my former girls who commented on my sizable cock while she was blowing me for the first time:

Her: You’ve got a nice one.
Me: So, you like ‘em big, girl?
Her (laughs): No, I want them small and really thin so that I don’t feel anything.

…and continued. Yes, it hurt when I entered her but it seems to have been worth it. While I am vain enough to tell myself that I get laid because I am good looking, the size of my cock also plays a role.

The idea is ...I see quite a few not so good looking guys with good looking women ...and I can't connect this with your "theory" mentioned on the blog.

Now you can. It's often very obvious why guys get laid. But thanks a lot for this interesting email, I've enjoyed commenting on it.

Some critical Feedback to "Debunking"

The email responses to “Debunking the Seduction Industry” keep coming, despite having released the book months ago. Only very few replies are critical, though, and in this post I will discuss one, since it basically covers everything the few guys wrote to me who objected to the content of my free ebook were saying:

Firstly I checked your "Is the PU industry a sham industry" post on mASF, there were quite a few replies to that post (I'm not a mASF member, I just came across your post via your blog). You said in the book that you didn't know of anyone who had success with speed seduction, yet I've seen lots of guys on that thread saying speed seduction is the best bla bla bla (the contrary to what you said). I don't really know what to believe, I tend to think Ross is not getting laid as much as he says, his system is useless and his testimonials are fake...but that's just me. Anyway,the question is how did you come up with that statement in the book that you don't know anyone who got success with SS when guys replied to your thread saying the contrary?

You say that there are “lots of guys on that thread saying speed seduction is the best”, but of course you have to take into account who is making those claims. Unfortunately, for your argument, you are referring to some of the most discredited individuals on mASF.

But allow me first a remark on the nature of the so-called “Masterminds” forum on mASF. This sub-forum was created after some people voiced concerns about the rapidly decreasing quality of the forum, which continues to this day. Formhandle also hoped that some other “big guns” would join in but the few that showed up made complete fools out of themselves, such as HuddersfieldMark and BigWillyStyle, and basically got laughed off the forum.

However, this doesn’t mean that all is well and good on that board. You basically received an invitation if you managed to get a “good” ranking by other mASF users, and this basically means that as long as you didn’t piss anybody off and wrote the occasionally field report, you were shooed in, which included a couple of guys that had barely lost their virginity.

This background allows you to put into perspective the claims of the two most vocal supporters of Speed Seduction in this thread. The first one, Mankite, does, from what you can deduce from his posting history, get laid rather infrequently, and if he does, he somehow manages to backward rationalize it by saying that he was using Speed Seduction. For instance, he has written a “lay report” in which he seduces a girl that was listening to a small solo performance (!) he has given, completely neglecting the fact that just holding a music instrument on a stage is pretty much enough to get laid --- and then you read that he was “pacing” and “hypnotizing” the girl with his instrument.

Further, I have reason to believe that Mankite does not get laid by hot girls. Evidence are his “I’m in love” posts which show up about once a year whenever he’s managed to bang what he considers a hottie, and makes sure that everyone else also gets that impression.

The other guy, Baddog, was a running gag on mASF. He had the shtick of posting Youtube videos with no explanatory text at all and a title like “Best example of X”, claiming that this meant that he was teaching us seduction via the Socratic method. Later, he went on to develop an “open source” seduction method called A.C.E.D., which was the most vague “method” I have ever seen. It took a few months, but eventually many of the other “Masterminds” ganged up and told him publicly what they think of him. Eventually, he was banned from the Masterminds sub-forum and, as far as I know, he hasn’t posted ever since, because it was such a blow to his ego.

Let’s have a look at some of his claims: he claims to have had nine “lays” that year (and this was in August), including --- red flag --- “a 4 month dry spell earlier this year where LMR was my middle name because I was re-calibrating without SS”. At this point your conclusion can only be “whacko”. But the very next sentence is: “I COULD get laid several times a WEEK if I used SS like before, and was so inclined, but I’ve abandoned it for.... (get THIS!) ETHICAL REASONS.” Sure you have.

Whenever somebody tells you how many times he could (!) get laid, run for the hills. Oh, and surely you have read this line of Baddog, too: “ It’s taken me 2 years of 6 to 8 hours of study or field work PER DAY to get to the point I’m at.” Later on, he writes, “Typically I'll open at least 20 or 30 people, maybe over 10 or 15 sets in an evening.”

Hahahahaha.

Dear email writer, if Baddog’s claim that he really has invested 4300 to 5800 hours (!) is true, approached as many girls as he does, and all that he can show for this effort is about one “lay” a month despite the absurd amount of time he puts in, then this guy does nothing but discredit Speed Seduction. If you then actually bothered to look up the “lay reports” Baddog has posted, you will find that he eventually stumbled upon a horny girl and then thinks that he now has to use Speed Seduction to get her, i.e. to him it is inconceivable that girls can just be horny, which then leads him to deceive himself by stating that she got horny by using "Speed Seduction". One wonders why the other dozen or so girls were immune to those superb techniques, though.

What Baddog does is applying the same faulty reasoning I have outed in “Debunking the Seduction Community”, when I was stating that "game" is nothing but backwards rationalizing.

I could go on about Baddog, but this should be enough.

The email of the guy didn’t stop here, but this post does. Stay tuned for the second part!

Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor (II)

If you have liked my previous post Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor, then you will love this follow up. There were some more recent developments and ForeverDrake asked me to post the following on my blog. Prepare for an awful lot of drama and some interesting insights into the shady side of the seduction industry.

=========================

Bravo Nathan!

It's nice to see that Nathan PUA has gone the route of denying this incident altogether. Hey, maybe Speer can defend Nathan some more too. Or you guys could try the route of accusing me of being unable to differentiate the simple act of somebody resting on my shoulders versus somebody literally grabbing the back of my neck. Oh wait, you guys did! Nice! I couldn't believe you could stoop any lower Nathan, but you have, instead of offering me a sincere apology you have decided to deny this incident... ALTOGETHER!

This is seriously more drama than I'd like to deal with but when a manipulative person attempts to deny his actions and then make me out to look bad then I have to step in and do something about it, I hope you understand Nathan. :)

I was going to let this go, I really was, but you seriously expect me to let this go after you try to DENY this ENTIRE situation and then have Speer on the podcast to defend YOU?

Nice job man! I can tell you have a lot of integrity. :)

Too bad you were a dumbass and decided to grab my neck in a convention room FULL of people. I can easily round up witnesses to the incident if you'd like Nathan or Speer. The only fucking reason I didn't beat the shit out of you right there was because... 1. I was in a convention that my buddy ran and there was a Q&A panel going on up front, I didn't want to ruin the footage of this. 2. You're a millionaire, clearly you're going to sue me if you were already threatening to, I doubt I can explain myself out of beating your ass in a crowd full of about 50 people, even though you're trying to deny and explain yourself out of grabbing my neck in a room of about 50 people. For anyone reading, feel free to call me a pussy all you'd like. If me not wanting to get sued by a millionaire is being a pussy, then I'm a pussy. :)

Now, he did it in a room full of people, I'm sure many people have already stepped up to confirm this as witnesses. But allow me to list 2 witnesses right now. Members "MisterB" and "Jedi" from the DC Lair "TheAttractionVault" were witnesses to this. MisterB was right next to me when this happened. Jedi was behind me when this happened. Here's what Jedi had to say about the neck grabbing when I asked him about it.

July 30, 2010 at 1:39pm
(no subject)
yes, it was vicious too
—Jedi

Obviously, Psych did not cut off ALL affiliations with you (Nathan) if you simply rested your hand on my back, but instead you verbally threatened me and grabbed my neck. That is why Psych cut off affiliations with you and that is why this entire situation has been blown to such massive proportions. Although I am not quite 100% sure why Psych didn't cut off affiliations with you sooner during those nut grabbing/hitting allegations, who knows. I still feel right now that him cutting affiliations with you was a publicity stunt because of all the negative attention he has received through this entire ordeal.

And of course, Dream banned you from all further 21 convention events because of your actions towards me. He obviously didn't do this because you "rested your hands on me" or whatever bullshit you decided to tell Speer. Dream will back me up on this and so will several (almost all) the other coaches at the convention have said so. Hshudo has my back in this as well. I don't believe anybody has taken your side in this entire situation either, except perhaps Speer, unless he's not taking your side but that you simply managed to convince him of your lies, who knows? All I can say is, if Speer or anybody decides to defend you then they are no friend of mine.

There is clearly something to be said about Speer's integrity if he is seriously deciding to defend Nathan so I did a little bit of digging, it wasn't hard to find these few posts. Seriously dude, if you're really going to defend Nathan then go ahead. Paraphrasing what you said on the recent podcast, you said that Nathan (or anybody) is free to market or advertise your products and bootcamps because Nathan didn't personally do anything to you. So, if he hits a past student in the testicles and then grabs another former student by the neck, you don't mind this person advertising and marketing you? That says a lot about your character
Speer .

And don't bother trying to sue me Speer. I'm just stating my opinions and quoting other people.

This post is by "AnacondaMMA", a member on the casanovacrew forums. Also as an added note, NONE of the e-mails or posts that I will now proceed to quote have been edited in any way, shape, or form. They are the original unedited versions of the quote. And you can easily look these people up (well, somewhat easily) and contact them to verify the validity of these statements.

Oh helllllllllll no! I try not to "troll" or whatever the hell it's called and I dont want to talk shit about anyone I've never met. But Speer - FUCK YOU IN THE FACE. Man I want to bitch slap that guy so bad...

How is that asshole going to say that he's against suing a student when he threatened to sue one of my best friends for asking for a refund MORE THAN ONCE during a bootcamp and then even called him again to make sure he wasn't telling anyone about their conversation.

Now my boy is probably going to get mad at me for letting this out but if Speer wanna sue someone, he can sue me.

And while I'm calling him out so I dont have to keep yammering in post after post. I thought he was really douchey at the SNL seminar walking through a speech SEVERAL TIMES that I enjoyed WAAAAAY more than his and acting like he was king shit. I wasn't the only one to notice that either.

OK. Enough of my shit talking but I swear that the above is 100% true.
—AnacondaMMA

Hmm... Nice. Here's another quote from this guy. Wow, your bootcamps sound awesome Speer. I totally want to take one with you now. Not.

his was over a year ago so I may not be EXACT on all of this but here's a laundry list:

he was at least 2 hours late

Speer told my buddy to listen to his (speers) ipod while he was off doing something else

He told my buddy he needs to see a shrink after my buddy asked for his money back

he threatened to sue him in writing after my buddy requested a refund through Paypal

Speer took him "daygaming" to a bunch of clothing stores and told him to hit on the gay dudes there to practice and get good discounts. (WTF?!?)

Speer also told him that all of the other ppl had cancelled on the bootcamp so he couldnt give the money back because he wouldnt be able to cover his costs.

We actually call getting ripped off "Schlomo'd" now. Cause that's his real name.
—AnacondaMMA

This sounds mad shitty. And after he wanted a refund you threatened to sue him and told him that he needed psychiatric help? Good job bro.

Here's a post by "Santa", also a member on the casanova crew forums.

I don't even know what the above is about. Did not listen to that episode, but who cares who you are affiliated with or not. You could not explain your way out of a paper bag. I remember when you came to our layer talk and shot bs and belittled members and then shot a video of the lair members outside with you giving a speech as if you were some great leader promising to take everyone on a bootcamp like adventure for free. And then disappeared...
—Santa

I didn't even have to dig hard to find negative things said about you bro. One of the top speakers / coaches at the convention also said some pretty negative things about you Speer. He said you have mad game, but that your training and teachings and bootcamps are not worth taking. Won't specify who said it, but he's voted one of the top 3 pick up artists in the world.

Enough of Speer, now back to Nathan.

Hey Nathan PUA, remember Aaron Sleazy? Yeah, the guy you tried ripping off a couple months ago. You tried getting him to give you and your buddy free training and a free talk so that YOU MADE THE PROFIT. And when the date of the event drew ever closer he had declined your obviously manipulative offer, and when he did, remember what you did? Of course you do, you sent an e-mail to everyone who was going to attend the event and said that you had to cut off your ties with Sleazy and then you said you found out he was involved in "unethical" business actions when it was you who was doing the "unethical" behavior.
http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2010/08/bad-bootcamp-led-to-physical-attack-by.html
Sleazy has got my back on this too.

Or feel free to check out the thread I made on mASF.
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=104258&fid=34
I know many guys who replied to that thread / have personally been in-field with them. These are pretty successful guys who have my back on this issue as well.

Or hey, how about that thread you started on the PUAhate forum. You know, the one you accuse BradP of being a rapist which is clearly untrue. Now THAT is slander. Too bad that website apparently does IP tracing or you were stupid enough to use your real e-mail address when creating that "GiantsFan" account...
http://www.puahate.com/showthread.php?t=6734
Can't explain yourself out of this one, can ya Nathan? Of course you can't, but feel free to deny it as I already know you will, just as you denied that you actually grabbed my neck. Only a complete idiot would believe somebody like you. If this link isn't so familiar then how about this one?
http://forum.casanovacrew.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=giantsfan
Yeah, Nathan posted this on the PUAhate forum AND the casanova crew forum. Sad. Did you really think you wouldn't get exposed for this?

http://www.bradp.com/nathan-pua-psych-and-heartwork-choking-incident
BradP has already got my back on this. I think this is the article that sparked so much rage inside of you.

Libido and Ratisse also have my back on this incident.


Here's a post from "ProtaJ" a member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

I felt the same way when we were at the beach. Nathan pressure me to do a bootcamp and when I told him I didn't think I needed one, he ran to you and told you that I said I was too advanced. I think you have a good program and are working hard to make it better and provide more value, but I am concerned with the people who represent you.
—ProtaJ

You're a really high pressure salesman, and Psych must be aware of these things yet he let them happen. Heartwork and Psych also watched you try to pitch me another bootcamp ($695 dollars that I was unwilling to pay) when I was simply asking for a sixty dollar refund. Which could easily have been split up into thirty dollars for Heartwork and thirty dollars for Psych to pay. But oh well. Now all this drama had to unfold.

Another post on TopLair by "Psych" himself.

Brad P is just trying to talk badly about me to hurt other competing instructors.

I am NOT a part of this drama and am simply guilty by association at this point. I firmly stand by what I teach and think I give an amazing program considering the price point. I know some guys from toplair just took a bootcamp with me so I'd like to see their reviews and you can all draw your own conclusions. I'm not going to comment on the incident other than simply saying I had nothing to do with it what so ever. You either need to talk to foreverdrake or nathanpua.
—Psych

This post is strange because Psych himself said on the podcast that he does not think Brad was trying to rail on him in his blog post, yet here he is saying the opposite, which is that he believes BradP was intentionally talking badly about him just to hurt competing instructors.

Here's a message from your buddy Heartwork, an e-mail I received the day after this neck grabbing incident.

from the information that I gathered from what Nathan did was completely out of line. Having just met the guy this weekend I know I can't be associated with anything/anyone that conducts business in that way. I have actually turned down their offer to assist them on an upcoming program because of it. I also have a lot of respect for your self control to not take physical action when it happened.
—Heartwork

Everybody seems so sure you grabbed me by the neck, I wonder why? Oh, maybe because... You did.

Heartwork's e-mail continued.

Now here is my real concern, i have only met nate this weekend and have learned one thing, he is an angry dude, that does not know how to deal with people, with waaaay too much money just lying on his hands. Now even though I don't see myself ever talking to him again, I really think that if you start saying stuff about him somewhere, he will take some legal action, which I think is terrible but can't help but be concerned with how it will play out. Although there is really no case, paying lawyers, and making an annoying situation. I think you have the right to say what nate did and should but I think he will do something about it. I'm letting you know this as a friend would hate to see your money, family, and free time get involved in whatever nate does legally.

it was also nate who told me and jarrett not to pay the refund, I would have liked to just split it with jarrett. Which I hope I can still convince jarrett of because I hate that something we were involved with a year ago resulted in someone actually threatening you. Simply because that happened (regardless of how long ago it was) registers to me as a very legitimate reason for a refund. And I still stand by paying the refund regardless of what you decide to do. Nates actions came from him being mad that you were saying something bad about jarrett hurts his business. I think jarrett will agree with me, that he, as nates buisness partner, needs to get nate to apologize to you and compensate what happened and I want jarrett and I (or at least me) to resolve our conflict entirety separate of nates influence.
—Heartwork

Really? Scare tactics? Nice. And according to Heartwork, it was entirely your fault that this entire incident happened, which I might add... Was only over $60 dollars. Nice one man, you're a millionaire but you can't spare sixty freaking dollars? Hmmm... Greedy much?

I also find it entirely too hilarious that Psych and Heartwork were seriously going to let you JUST apologize to me and then pay me back the 60 dollars and then call it the end of that. This e-mail is the main one that convinced me that Psych's cutting off his affiliations with Nathan was entirely a publicity act. Nice. Psych wanted to just get you to apologize to me and then end this entire situation off that, as if an apology would fix that, it's not like you can just go around and grab former students by the neck all day long and say "Oh, sorry, my hand slipped!" and expect it all to be over with. By the way, don't even try apologizing to me, you're such a manipulative creep that I believe anything you say will be a contrived and forced apology just for publicity sake. I will not accept any apology you attempt to convey to me.

Heartwork's e-mail continued even further. And sorry I had to post this Heartwork. I know you're going to read this eventually, the only reason I'm posting this is because you lied blatantly to my face when I was asking for a refund as cheap as sixty dollars. But hey, feel free to repost any e-mails I sent you if you'd like man, I have nothing to hide.

I have not talked to nathan since the convention but have talked to psych. I know I personally think nate is a fucking psychopath for doing that and want zero affiliation even from knowing him or his actions. Me and psych both FREAKED about what happened and was an all too late eye opener for someone like psych who is in an actual business relationship with him. Immediately after the fact I washed my hands of him and psych I am sure is plotting his way out. This has nothing to do with a bad reputation or anything like that getting out, this is general safety and concern shit.

As far as his actions I want zero affiliation by making speculations of what he would do, that could be used against me in any legal way, because of his unpredictable and connected nature. I just know he has a shitload of money, sketchy political connections that gets him that money, and a ruthless attitude. I think he will try to convince a judge that you took business away from him during the convention through slander. Which would be a long and expensive process. I even heard of him getting a few people at the convention to admit that you had said something negative towards his affiliations to start formulating an argument if needed. The guy is nuts and I want NOTHING to do with this or him for my own safety and security.

I do honestly think people should know about his actions and he should be held accountable, also you will never hear me say a good thing about him word of mouth, but as far as creating documented evidence that he could take and use just screams as a bad idea in my mind.
—Heartwork

So, how's that look Nathan? Heartwork AND Psych are in agreement that you physically grabbed my neck. Haha.

I'm not too sure about Psych but I do not know why Heartwork is a coach. I am his former student, I simply asked for a sixty dollar refund, it was originally one hundred dollars but he mentioned a limousine ride we took to get there and supposedly my share of it was forty dollars which I don't believe but whatever, so I subtracted forty from it. It was sixty dollars and it was still very clear he was unwilling to pay even that amount, which was really just thirty dollars if Heartwork and Psych each split up the sixty. They make literally over 10 times that amount PER student PER boot camp. That got me pretty curious.

Then recently Heartwork got really drunk and so did Vin DiCarlo's trainer Brian, and they both had a slapping contest with each other while they were both drunk. Heartwork got hit so hard he got knocked out. Then when Jared attempts to question Psych about this on the podcast, Psych defends Heartwork. Really? A 20 year old who gets drunk on a regular basis, neglects and ignores his former students, refuses refunds for bad training, and gets in literally a slapping contest with another trainer, gets knocked out, and goes to the hospital to get stitches... Is still a quality trainer? I'd personally say no. And no Heartwork, you can't deny this fact. It is on film, why would you be dumb enough to let people video-record your slapping contest anyways? That's almost as dumb as Nathan grabbing my neck in a crowded room full of credible witnesses and then denying it a couple weeks later. Just pure ignorance.


Hey, how about this statement from my buddy, the one you intentionally cockblocked all night during the bootcamp you did with Psych, right before he fired you.This guy is "Xtothea420", also a member of my local lair.

I could care less about the drama, but I was asked by a fellow lair member to back him up, I WILL back him up. I felt a strange vibe from Nathan as with other lair members. I could really care less about him. Through befriending him, I have noticed he has a very strong tendency to pester people on buying Psych's product. I tell him I have no money. Here is the text shared:

Nathan: U need to make getting this area of your life taken care of a priority
Me: If only you knew my friend...if only you knew
Nathan: I know its tough. A credit card min payment is like $20/mon. 2 drinks/mon. to have success with women is not affordable? R u serious? =[

After telling him I possess no credit card, job, and I live with my parents, he still persists by cutting me a discount: from $600 to $500. I tell him I will decide within 24 hours. I tell him I cannot make it. He is a salesman. I can understand why he is so persistent so I shrug off the negative aspect of his character.

Fast forward to Saturday. I show up to Ibar as Psych's bootcamp is underway. I tell Psych I am NOT trying to intrude. I have friends there who are and aren't in the bootcamp who I would like to chill with. After a few hours of hanging with everybody I notice HBfishnet. I open the set by myself, hook, and then bounce. She wants to meet my friends so I introduce her to Nathan. Nathan notices I'm with her, after all I just introduced you to her. He shakes her hand and runs kino....I'm thinking "alright, work your magic lets see what you've got". I continue conversation with a fellow lair member taking the bootcamp. He wants to tell me something, but he doesn't want to say it with Nathan around. I shrug it off and think nothing of it. Later in the set, I take my target back. Next thing you know there are guys coming out of the wood work AMOG'ing me. I FINALLY hear what my friend was trying to tell me when Nathan was near us. Here is the text, word-for-word:

"that Nathan guy was getting mad when he saw u with that girl, called u a chode who's not on the bootcamp and was telling ppl to amog u. he claims he fucked her".

Still to this day, I don't give a shit. If he wishes to try to steal sets from others and then blame it on the individual thats fine. Have fun doing it in NYC, I no longer have to hear from you.
—Xtothea420

Or how about this statement from my buddy, he's going to get pissed at me for posting this but I can't allow your lies to keep spreading Nathan ol' buddy. By "BuckNut", member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

The night I put a down payment down at HOB a week earlier I had no intention of doing a bootcamp but did it mainly because I was impressed with the feedback of doing sets with a microphone and the price of 395 for 3 intense days of training; because I know most bootcamps are like 600 to 5000 dollars so that did me in. He pressured me by saying each day it goes up 100 dollars and that "I need to do get this part of my life taken care of" our bootcamp will take 6 months off your learning curve.

I then researched and saw psyche was more of a natural game which I don't feel I need right now; and remember doing sets with the other kid from New York that was like their most loyal student and remember how bad he sucked and also felt like it would mean a lot to spend more time on vacation with my relatives who took time off

I told Nathan Saturday night this at Ibar; he seemed a little frustrated at first and then he put a microphone on me and had me do more sets and spent like an hour with me. He said he saw great improvement in me already from one week; and that he thinks I can be really good and he enjoys working with me; I just need to take the bootcamp to get over the hump; that my only other options would be go to new york a week later or wait two years till they come back to orlando. Kept repeating that I have hit a plateau and I need to get this part of my life taking care of and the bootcamp will do it and that if I want to be good bad enough I will find a way to make it happen. Then he saw Pysche outside who was debating coming in and told him to get in there and then whispered to pysche. Pysche came in and said listen I was already planning all these exercises for you after we spoke about your sticking points. If u say u are having trouble keeping the conversation going give me 3 days and u will be fixed; i will get u to be more exciting in set I have wrote a book on it; etc.. I will take 6 mnths off ur development and u have to make this happen and get this part of you taken care of if you want it bad enough. Tell ur cousin u are doing this too improve yourself he would think it's awesome; You can make it happen; he basically got in my grill and kept talking with straight on body language and deflecting my no's until I said I would do it.

---------sunday I was still a little unsure but was going to do it and then after I spoke to u I was sure no I am not doing it. Told nathan this as well I still couldn't do it sunday and he brought me to sit on a couch and kept repeating the same stuff as before; acting confused as to why even though i was telling him my vacation situation.

Then Eric aka turntrable said no dude your doing it and gave me like a 10 minute speech; like it would mean a lot to have u there; i went to the beach with these guys and I think they are great guys; it will take our game to a whole new level. stop giving me excuses i know u can do it listen as a friend it would mean a ton to me if u were there; u are doing it. Chris never said much but was a little upset like "why" when I told him I wasn't going.

Nathan then spoke to me again after psyche's speech and had psyche come up and psyche goes "i thought we already discussed this yesterday". kept pushing said we will be doing over 200 sets individually blah blah blah......I've gamed with Sinn, with everybody; my style fits anyone I don't care if u use routines; I will personally coach u and make sure you improve. I'm not sure why I said it at this point but I said I had heard bad things--- maybe because they were not taking no for an answer on anything else I told them.

At that point I just started getting all these guarantees and about how it was a different team last year; put there arm around me said let's go to the ATM and started walking and trying to ensure me the whole time....... so sad to say but I did end up doing the course. And then after I saw him come up straight to u and threaten to sue I felt some buyers remorse like I have just found out the true answer.

I will not be afraid to post about how I did not learn anything if that becomes the case and say I do not recommend it.

----I think I should of gotten the cue one when I realized they were going to be dicks about giving my 100 dollars back due to a family/flight situation and two---being high pressure and not giving me space. That should of been all i needed right there.

But it is a learning experience.
—Bucknut

If you keep spreading your lies, I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

And in the unlikely event that you gather enough balls to get on the podcast and try to defend your unjustifiable actions and lies that you've done so far, I will get on the same podcast too at the SAME TIME and keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

Just try spreading your lies on Jared's podcast while I'm also on the line to clarify whatever bullshit lies you're spitting man. I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

I'm not letting you guys trick another person nor am I going to let anybody else go through what I went through. You're not going to get away with this. Except with anybody ignorant enough to know about all this and after having read all of this, still decide to be affiliated with you, I sincerely pity anybody like that of course.

Going to quote Manwhore on what he wrote about me here on the RSDnation forum.

Let's not turn this into internet KJ town.

When homeboy sounded off on this nathan dude the entire convention shut the fuck up. I conducted training for hundreds of Soldiers in urban operations.. I know the sound of shock n awe. I'm sure "nathan pua" poo'ed his pants on the spot and learned a valuable lesson.
—Manwhore

It's funny how you can grab my neck because I'm busy paying attention to a Q&A panel up front but when I get in your face and confront you about it, you just shut the fuck up and call me "crazy" and say that I "have anger issues" and that I "need counseling." Very classy of you man. Stay classy man.

Oh, and another thing, next time you see me... Feel free to grab my neck again. See what fucking happens.

For legal reasons, nothing I have written here is a threat in any way, shape, or form. I am not affiliated with BradP or any other companies as well.

Have a nice day.
:)

The Marketing Syndicate and the Business Cycle of the Seduction Industry, Part II

In the previous post I have discussed the parallels between the Internet marketing scene and the seduction industry. The last quote I used was:

The Syndicate keeps prices high :: and dissent low. The Syndicate all but eliminates marketplace competition. (…) The Syndicate uses tough :: tasteless :: and intimidating tactics to defend against what it sees as threats to its unrightful domain.

So far I have only elaborated on the “keeps prices high” part. Of course they also want to keep dissent low, which is why you will get attacked if you question “generally accepted truths”. I don’t have to remind you of the lame actions of Formhandle from mASF took against me and some of my friends. For instance, you will find names such as “Sleazy” and “TVA” highlighted and linked to a page that contains his tasteless “defense” of his bruised ego. Some of his accusations are:

Creating "posses" or cliques of people (almost like a mini-cult) to sling ill-will as a group, constantly challenging what is otherwise common sense to the vast majority of others in the forum, or spurring flame-wars for the sake of creating drama to fuel ulterior motives.

Of course, having some of the most respected members of that forum speak out aggressively against “the common sense of the vast majority” is not good for business. Much better would of course be if we all wrote panegyrics to highlight the many "accomplishments" of the teachings of Love Systems et al. Telling people that they can get laid easily, without practicing lame “routines” and socializing for hours can’t be tolerated. Of course, a website that is plastered with ads from all major companies would sabotage itself if it allowed dissent. It would simply threaten their revenues. Probably we did and that’s why we’ve gotten the boot. In all honesty, I was surprised it took so long to get ostracized. I had actually expected this to happen soon after I posting my classic article “Is the PU industry a sham industry? Some observations.”

If you want to see further parallels, here is a traffic chart from the Internet marketing world:

Salty Droid goes on to explain:

These are the traffic spikes from the launches of five recent Syndicate frauducts. Andy Jenkins :: Frank Kern :: John Reese :: Jeff Walker :: and Ryan Deiss.  This same precise pattern can be traced back to 2005{ish} … no competition allowed!

And now think about what’s happening in the Seduction industry: scheduled releases and cross-promotions. It doesn’t stop here, though. The Internet marketing scene has its own syndicate, gathering in their private forums and plotting to scam the biggest numbers of people, and so does the seduction industry, where there is also a “secret” group, made up mostly of instructors. There are two, as far as I know of, but one is dead because the members were afraid the others would “steal their material”, and on the other forum they don’t talk much about seduction anymore but instead about ways to make money and how to keep in shape. A cynical comment from a guy in Chicago was that this was because they are all broke and out of shape.

So much for discussing parallels between those two groups. While in the case of the Internet marketing syndicate I expect lawsuits and crackdowns to follow, it may take a while until the seduction industry gets to this point. In the meantime, I expect to not only see less high-profile releases (“product launches”), but a lower price level in general, since the market has become too crowded.

There was a recent trend towards continuity programs like forum subscriptions with monthly payments, including some unethical elements like so-called forced continuity, something I discuss in greater detail in Debunking the Seduction Community. Also, readers have pointed me towards a new gimmicky offering. A German company now offers a “flat rate” for workshops. You put down 2.000 EUR and can attend all workshops for a year for a nominal fee of 20 EUR, and the reasoning behind it is apparently that people pay the inflated fee once and then get too tired of travelling to the various cities. In any case, this industry seems to run out of steam.

The Marketing Syndicate and the Business Cycle of the Seduction Industry, Part I

Salty Droid recently ran a couple of very interesting posts about a syndicate of Internet marketers. Given the close relationship between “gurus” in the seduction industry and Internet marketers --- it is often said that Internet marketers are the gurus of the seduction marketers ---, those findings are indeed revealing and can be used to draw many parallels. If you have followed the seduction industry for a while, a lot of it will sound eerily familiar to you.

Here is Salty Droid’s take on the Syndicate:

The Syndicate is a cartel at the center of the get rich quick world of Internet Marketing. Each of the members tries to pass himself off as a freewheeling entrepreneur. (…) Each sells a version of this easy freedom in a bottle to seekers … the sadder the seeker … the better. But the dream :: like the cake :: is a lie. Success in “the industry” correlates not with value :: individuality :: or effort … but with proximity to a toxic core whose basic operations constitute a serious felony and moral failing.

In plain language this means that we have Internet marketers A, B, C, …, N who all have their own special products that cater for a certain problem. But the seduction industry does not have people worrying about improving their “click-through rate” but instead minimizing the number of flaky phone numbers, which then gives rise to a 3 DVD set with the title “No Flakes!”, co-created by Vin DiCarlo, one of my long-time favourites. Maybe Vin should start to work out if he gets too many flakes.

Of course this level of specialization only started after the big categories like “routines-based game” and “direct game” were filled, in addition to whatever it is that Real Social Dynamics is advocating. Then there was a focus on “day game” and the online game fraction is getting bigger, too.

If you have been around for a while, you might have noticed that there was always a release to look forward to. Neil Strauss aka. Style released his “Annihilation Method”, Venusian Arts their “Mind of Mystery”, and Mehow had his “Infield Exposed”, which is easily the most bizarre stuff I have ever seen. Then another crop of people turned up. Suddenly PUATraining and “Gambler” were pushing products. By that time people were telling me that if you have signed up for one guy’s newsletter, you suddenly got bombarded by emails in which other products were being pushed as well. This was arguably the phase when cross-promoting (affiliate marketing) got popular.

By that time people seemed to slowly wake up to all the nonsense those companies spout out. Of course, if there is a ton of competition you better differentiate yourself and find your own niche. However, for the amount of money some people charge for a scaminar seminar on “how to pickup strippers” you could directly spend it on the strippers yourself --- and have sex with them until you are getting sick of it.

But back to “The Syndicate” and Salty Droid:

The Syndicate keeps prices high :: and dissent low. The Syndicate all but eliminates marketplace competition. (…) The Syndicate uses tough :: tasteless :: and intimidating tactics to defend against what it sees as threats to its unrightful domain.

The comment about price-fixing was true at least until recently. While Neil Strauss wanted to sell his “Annihilation Method” DVDs for close to $4.000, which is downright obscene, others were a bit more modest and just charged the comparatively modest sum of two grand. Unfortunately for our sad bunch of seduction gurus, the Seduction Market is much smaller than the market the Internet goo-roos want to serve, which presumably includes a lot of wannabe seduction gurus. For this reason you still have the Internet crowd trying to charge two grand for their "products", but the seduction gurus either stopped producing DVDs or lowered the prices drastically. Some people now sell their DVD sets for less than $200, which is still an extremely high figure given production costs. Others such as Real Social Dynamics have stopped releasing “programs” altogether, which is a shame since I was so eagerly looking forward to the stuff that was supposed to be released after the “Blueprint” and “Flawless Natural”. RSD claimed it would “really blow your mind”, but I guess it won’t anymore. Shame on all those "piratefags".

To be continued...

Classic Post: "Good" Bad Sets vs "Bad" Bad Sets

In my discussion of feeltheburn's post "The Fishermen Realization" I mentioned an old post of mine with the title “Good” Bad Sets vs “Bad” Bad Sets. Some of you may remember it, but since it is buried in the depth's of the Internet and also because I have taken the content of my old blog offline, I decided to re-post it on my forum.

“Good” Bad Sets vs “Bad” Bad Sets was one of the most important posts I have written --- not necessarily in terms of its influence on others, but on the influence it had on me, because it is the summary of my experiences as a seducer, and sitting down and really thinking about the issues why some interactions just didn't go anywhere made me aware that what the seduction industry/community wants to tell you is mostly nonsense and the truth is much simpler and easier to grasp. In fact, this article "set me free". Afterwards, I focussed a lot on "streamlining" my game until it couldn't possibly get more minimalistic. Part of the last sentence is also a bit of a teaser, since there were many encounters (=successful seductions) which I have written up but not released yet.

But without further ado, here's the article, which I have written over a year and a half ago.

Enjoy!

The Fishermen Realization

A user on my forum who goes by the name of feeltheburn wrote a most insightful post with the title “The Fishermen Realization”, which deals with one of the core issues of “pickup”, which is also the least addressed one since it undermines the justification for the existence of this shady industry. You won’t find many people openly talking about it, because you couldn’t sell a “bootcamp” if you told this to people. But enough with building expectations and wetting your appetite to read this most insightful thread!

Here’s a quote from the post to set the scene. All of you can probably relate to it.

So a PUA comes back from a night out and writes a FR. You read about him going out spotting the girl across the room, moving in, surrendering to the vibe, the build up of sexual tension, about magical eye contact that charms the girl like a spell and the grand finale of him butt fucking her in her apartment.

And what actually happened was he went in a venue got blown out with 5-10 girls either directly by the girl rejecting them or indirectly via 'feeling the ground' (by hovering near her, forcing eye contact, touching them, dancing in her direction/near her etc. ) and then stumbles upon a girl that doesn’t reject him and they hook up.

I couldn’t agree more.

However, because the proponents of the seduction industry, due to their obvious financial interests, have to claim that “anyone can succeed with girls” --- but not just regular girls, you can get actresses, supermodels and strippers, too. They are all yours for the taking if you just learn some inane "routines" and dress like a harlequin!

Unlike the previous caricature, which sadly is a reality if you look at the sales pitches of Love Systems et al., a much more realistic perspective is that it’s simply the girls who are doing the choosing, which leaves us with exactly two possible outcomes:

1. She likes you --- and therefore it doesn’t matter what you say and do
2. She doesn’t like you --- and therefore it doesn’t matter what you say and do

There is of course a third category, the “grey zone girls”, as I call them in my free ebook “Debunking the Seduction Community”, where you can f*ck things up because the girl is only somewhat interested, but at the same time not disinterested enough in you to tell you to take a hike. This is indeed the only area where “game” plays a minor role, but it’s less important than you might think because the girl will quickly decide whether 1) or 2) is the case. Speaking from my own life and adventures, the instances where I had to actively “game” a girl for a long time were rather rare if not almost unheard of. As a side note, a prime case was the girl I wrote about in the chapter “Against considerable Resistance” in my paperback book Sleazy Stories.

But let’s not stray too far from feeltheburn’s post "The Fishermen Realization". Here’s another quote from him:

At this point of the game I really think that its all about looking good and approaching.

This is probably the most succinct summary of what it takes to get girls I have ever come across. If you are not approaching, you will have a hard time getting laid, no matter how good looking you are. Girls will hardly ever do all the work for you. Of course this doesn’t mean that all hope is lost if you are not good looking. Also, consider the fact that you are probably a lot better looking than you think you are. (And if not, then stop eating fast food and start exercising.)

Surely, companies such as Mystery Method, Love Systems, PUA Training, Real Social Dynamics rather have you shelling out thousands for dubious “in-field training” instead of telling it like it is, which would then save you a ton of money and wasted effort. Skipping the misguided and confusing theories of 99% of pickup companies and dating coaches --- to me they are nothing but a source for entertainment --- would allow you to focus on drastically improving your odds by working on what really counts.

Here is more from feeltheburn:

Good looking guys who approach a lot get laid. Bad looking guys who go approach a lot get laid but less and by girls who are less hot. As far as cold approaching is concerned, the only people that do improve are the good looking ones that read the articles and just start to approach women. The only reason they didn't get laid is because they didn't make themselves available to pussy and thats it, no magic and fairy dust and pixies, just hard cold reality. The good looking ones get regularly laid by hot girls in a year or two after being exposed to the community, the bad looking ones won't get laid regularly by them in 200+ years.

I am also starting to believe that for every good “field report” there are 129847 ones that could be written about the same person getting destroyed (rejected) by a girl and that (as long as “approach anxiety” is taken care of) seduction is a numbers game and doesn't really have any room for improvement in that regard.

I had a very similar insight some time ago, which led me to write my article “Good Good Sets vs Bad Good Sets”, because it struck me that writing field reports, while helpful when you are starting out and have some fundamental issues to fix, are pretty much rubbish once you’ve gotten a handful (or two) of girls or so.

This is the reasoning behind this drastic statement: Sometimes you have a “great interaction”, but the girl would not fuck you even if you were the only guy around, simply because there is virtually zero sexual interest from her side. However, seemingly competent guys, blind to this fact, all too often happily write up the stories of their encounters and ask, “But how could I have gotten her?”

Those reports are sometimes really painful to read, because they could be dealt with quickly by saying, “Never in your life.” Those are the “bad good sets”, which seem to trip so many guys up. On the other hand, the “good good sets” are where there was simply a logistical issue that prevented you from getting laid. Some possible reasons are: there was an attendant in the bathroom, it was cold outside, and you’ve had to work the next day. Or maybe you’ve pissed off her friend… In any case, in those instances it is possible to point out what the problem was. In the other case it’s not.

Apart from that, it’s essentially nothing but bullshit and mental masturbation.

Debunking "Debunking the Seduction Community"

This is just a quick post.

I recently received an email from a guy who stumbled on my free ebook and liked it a lot. He also pointed me towards a discussion in some forum. Apparently, one guy on there felt rather offended by my arguments and lashed out at me. However, he shut up quickly after:

Do you get laid more than Sleazy?

Apparently he doesn't.

I found this rather amusing, and it's symptomatic for the feedback I have received because the very few negative responses were seemingly from people that only pick up women in their head (aka. mental masturbators).

Making Money Off the Anti-Community Bandwagon?

One of the more ridiculous accusations I've received after releasing "Debunking the Seduction Community" was that I'm trying to "cash in on the anti-community trend".

Here is a reminder: the anti-community trend started on mASF roughly two years ago, and it was guys like me, TVA_Oslo, 60YearsOfChallenge and some others that ridiculed the commercial people posting on there. We told them that their methods and beliefs are complete bullshit and showed them why this is the case. This fight was impossible to win in the end, because Formhandle, the guy running mASF, is obviously profiting from advertising, thus he can't endure too much criticism. If someone pays a few grand a month for banners, you can't watch him getting ridiculed. As a result, sometimes critical posts disappear or, in case of the reviews board, don't get approved in the first place. It would obviously be bad for business.

Eventually, we had to split and took virtually every respected and active poster with us. (Not all post publicly on TheSeducers.com; there is also a secret place where we gather.) However, the reason this could happen was simply because mASF is an incredibly badly moderated forum, completely cumbersome to navigate, and the people profiting from it have zero interest in putting some of the money they make back into it. Add censorship to it and you've got good reasons to leave for greener pastures.

Yet, the "anti-community wave" on mASF was not with out effect. People like LoveSystem's TenMagnet suddenly didn't feel like posting about their "number closes". One of Formhandle's friends, "BigWillie" if I recall correctly, made exactly one post on Masterminds. It was just a copy&paste of one of his newsletters, and he told us, the unwashed masses, that "having a fast car gets you laid". After I was done with him, he never showed up there again. Other victims were "Dream"/Anthony, who proudly wrote that he had two or three "lays" from thousands of approaches, Vin DiCarlo's coach "HeartWork", and recently BradP got a bashing when he was trying to flog his 50.000$ "PU Mansion program" (yes, that's just the fee for a year, you don't acquire any shares, as this price might suggest).

I could give many more examples, but the point would be the same: the commercial industry cannot deliver its promises and can't endure criticism. After all, why would you spend $3.000 on a "boot camp" --- if you knew that the guy teaching you was a virgin and the guy running the show hasn't gotten laid in a year? Incompetence is just one part of the problem. The other is that the boot camp model is flawed to begin with, even if you happened to work with somebody who actually gets laid. This is just one of the many aspects I discuss in "Debunking the Seduction Community".

Thus, the anti-community camp is growing for sound reasons. There are too many bullshitters around, offering overpriced and ineffective products or solutions. This is what I have pointed out in my post "Is the PU Industry a Sham Industry?" on mASF in 2008, and in much greater detail in "Debunking".

However, some now say that guys like me and 60 Years Of Challenge want to simply market to this niche. Sixty can speak for himself on his blog if he feels the need to, but all I can say about myself is that I am the only guy in this "industry" that tells you that you don't have to spend any money on "training". Strange way to cash in on something, isn't it? I have not the slightest interest in exploiting the desperate. The pickup industry, on the other hand, tries to get as much money from the desperate as possible. Case in point: BradP's $50k+ "Pickup Mansion". If I wanted to "sell out", I'd have released a $499 "get supermodels queuing in front of your house, no matter how you look and with zero work on your part --- even if you live in Antarctica" product years ago.

What Chess and “Game” have in common

Many years ago, the chess-bug had caught me for a while. I bought dozens of books, spent literally hours every day to study the game, and I got reasonably good. This means, I was good enough to grasp the fundamentals of the game, but I certainly wouldn’t have been able to hold a candle to a master. Nonetheless, my insights into this board game where profound enough to know when someone is talking out of his a** when it comes to chess. Yes, I’m going to do some community bashing, but please bear with me, there is something to be learnt here.

First of all, a beginner thinks he has to consider every move and wrongly believes that chess is all about thinking x moves ahead. But the contrary is much closer to the truth. While chess is a game of strategy that requires long-term thinking, mere powers of calculation won’t get you anywhere if you have no idea of basic principles such as pawn formations or open lines. Heck, a beginner doesn’t even see the “lines” and he can’t even evaluate the relative strength of various moves. The parallels to “structured game” as taught by some in the community are obvious.

Further, the in chess the number of possible moves is absurdly high. Some claim it’s higher than the number of elements in the universe. Of course, the vast majority of all possible moves is bad, but even if you focus on just the potentially good ones, you’ll quickly reach the limits of your mental capacity. What does that leave us with? Intuition.

I have recently read the somewhat dry book "Bobby Fischer goes to War", which recounts the famous 1972 world chess championship match between Fischer and Spassky, a contest that frequently got interpreted as a battle of Capitalism (US) and Communism (USSR). Apart from insights into cold war politics, it had some decent descriptions of the aspects of the game of chess as well, such as this one (p. 64):

The real explanation of what chess players do is less rational. It is closer to what we might think of as an artist’s vision and has to do with a kind of intuition. A chess player examining a position does not see an inanimate set of carved or moulded pieces waiting to be moved from square to square, but diagonals and ranks and latent possibilities; what Arthur Koestler described as ‘a magnetic field of forces charged with energy’.

The same is true when it comes to seduction. It is not a matter of rationality, as the proponents of “structured game” claim. You can surely have some success with it, but you will never get a real understanding of the deeper principles. It’s like with chess computers, who have tremendous powers of calculations. In this regard, they were hugely superior to human players, but could (until relatively recently) be beaten with certain anti-computer tactics that specifically addressed their weaknesses. In the meantime, though, grand masters and programmers teamed up and created beasts such as Hydra (which incidentally got beaten by a computer-assisted human player).

We don’t blindly calculate possible moves in our head, but we see the possibilities --- and we follow a strategy. That’s why a solid “game plan”, i.e. you know where you are going and you are not just fishing in the dark, is so important. The individual moves (“routines” and “techniques”) are far less important.

Feedback on "Debunking the Seduction Community"

Since the release of "Debunking the Seduction Community" I have received a lot of feedback. A thread on PUAHate.com has over 140 replies, and several dozens of people have emailed me. It will take me a while to get back to all of them, but I will post a couple of interesting passages on my blog and discuss them.

One of my highlights so far is a guy who wrote:

Thanks for the ebook. Upon reading it I deleted all my pickup materials and I'm starting tonight with doing things my own way.

That's the spirit! It's gratifying feedback like this which justifies the amount spent on the ebook.

Also, the first release was a bit rushed and there were some typos in it, which I have now fixed. Get revision 1.0a on my website.

Release: Debunking the Seduction Community

The subscribers to my newsletter heard the news first, and now it is time to announce the info on my blog: "Debunking the Seduction Community" is done.

Download it directly from my website. It's a PDF with 400 KB.

For a short description, check this page.

Key points of this book are:

• Commercial foundations of the seduction industry
• Why game is not the "great equalizer"
• The disastrous role of Neil Strauss' book "The Game"
• Why phone numbers and make outs are red herrings for seduction
• The unfortunate marriage of new age and the pickup scene
• A very simple overview of seduction and how it really works

Enjoy the book, and please let me know what you think! You can post comments on my forum or send me an email.

Debunking the Seduction Community: Final Touches

My ebook "Debunking the Seduction Community" is close to completion. I got the last batch of comments from my editor, and a few minor things have yet to be straightened out. I probably won't have time to finish this book during my US trip, so I'll probably do it on the flight back to Europe next week.

However, to wet your appetite, here is the current design of the cover (which is subject to change):

I plan to release the book before 1 May. Look forward to it!

I feel like posting one of my unreleased "lay reports"

As I was browsing some sites today, I came across this quote by Mystery:

The amateur will hit on a woman right away. We wait 8 minutes.

I chuckled and thought what you can do in eight minutes. One of the projects I want to finish this year is the sequel to Sleazy Stories, and it features plenty of encounters that found their natural completion in less time.

But that's enough mouth-watering since my (free) ebook "Debunking the Seduction Community" is not out yet. It is currently on the desk of my editor and if everything goes as planned, it will be out next week.

State

[This is an excerpt from the current draft of my upcoming free ebook "Debunking the Seduction Community".]

In an attempt to differentiate themselves from their competitors, Real Social Dynamics focussed on teaching “natural game.” The pinnacle was to be found in a 20 DVD product with the title “The Blueprint Decoded”. The new magic pill this product taught was called “state”. What exactly state was wasn't entirely clear. Apparently you are in state if you feel good about yourself. Too bad you normally don't feel good about yourself all the time. But don't despair, this is where the Blueprint comes in: if you feel down and don't want to talk to anybody, then you “unstifle” yourself. In London I once bumpted into an RSD acolyte who frequently shouted warcries in a bar (!), claiming that doing so would make him immune from social pressure and put him into state. I shook my head in disbelief.

I am not familiar with any concept ever taught by this industry, but Rob Judge gave me a brief recap and an explanation why in his opinion “state” messes up more guys than anything else:

The "pioneers" of natural game lauded “state” like it's the "secret" to attracting women. However, to put the idea in a guy's head that he needs to “generate” state by talking to bunch of random of people will cripple guys more than it helps. It instills the belief people have to bring your confidence “out” of you, rather than just walking up (like a normal, attractive guy) and getting the girl. Moreover, it forces guys who are naturally introverted to take on a “fake personality” and makes them feel “ashamed” if they don’t want to chat up every random idiot at a bar. For me, I only chose to associate with 2 people when I’m out: 1.) my friends, 2.) hot girls. Fuck state!

I agree that forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do does more harm than good. (This doesn't apply if you have severe social phobias, in which case you are better off seeking professional help.) Related ideas can often be heard, such as “approach x girls a night”, “approach the first girl you see without exception”, or “go out five nights a week.” Rather, just do what you feel like. If you have to force yourself, you are already lost.

The Seven-Hour Rule

[This is an excerpt from the current draft of my upcoming free ebook "Debunking the Seduction Community".]

I've read field reports from guys who had a girl in their bedroom dripping wet, but didn't fuck her because they didn't want to break the 7 hour rule and have "fool's mate". Mystery is by far the worst guru in my opinion.---PUA Comic

I agree that the notion of “fool's mate” and the idea that it takes “7 hours” to have sex with a women are both utterly bizarre. First of all, spending that much time with a woman without having sex will lead to many problems Mystery Method specifically addresses, like so-called “last minute resistance”, i.e. the guy suddenly suprises the girl with the fact that he actually has a dick after firmly placing himself in the friend zone by “building comfort” for hours upon hours.

In fact, you can have sex with women much, much quicker. My personal best is under five minutes, and it was a regular club, not a sex party or in a swinger club. I have had plenty of hook ups in which I got my dick wet in much less than fifteen minutes, and I kept seeing a relatively high percentage of those women. My personal experience, as well as the experiences of every successful guy I know, therefore undermines the notion of “solid game” as opposed to fool's mate. So, if you happen to end up with a girl in front of you that is dripping wet and waiting for you to put it in, you better do so. You don't want to be the guy that turns down sex because he doesn't want to violate a random “rule” some guy from the internet pulled out of his (furry) hat.

Peacocking

[This is an excerpt from the current draft of my upcoming free ebook "Debunking the Seduction Community".]

Dressing well requires an understanding of fashion. Ideally, you belong to one scene or subculture anyway, and if you don't and are interested in one, you simply show up a couple of times, pay attention to what guys are wearing and you're good to go. If in doubt, ask people where they have bought their stuff. Most are a bit shallow anyway and love talking about themselves.

On the other hand, Mystery's “peacocking theory” presupposes that you have to wear certain items that make you stand out. Do a Google search and laugh at those pictures. In 2008 I used to go out a lot in London. “Pick up” was relatively mainstream, and those peope were usually extremely badly dressed. With my friend Terry --- the guy that got me started on fashion and who has now made his hobby into his profession --- I used to play the game “Spot the PUA”. It is great fun and maybe you should try it to.

Typical “peacocking items” include: furry hats, goggles, neclaces and bracelets in all shapes and forms. I have heard of people wearing feather boas, fur coats, pink suits, fishnets as tops and plateau boots, all in an attempt to stand out and to signal “immunity to social pressure.” Those extremes may be less common nowadays, but go to any mainstream club in the typical pick-up epicenters, and it shouldn't take you too long to see such people. Thus, the message is: if you look as if you don't belong, then you don't belong.

Forget "peacocking" --- work on developing your style instead.

Upcoming (free) ebook: Debunking the Seduction Community

My travels have kept me away from the Internet recently. However, I did find the time to work on a project that had been on the planning stages for a while. I will soon release a (free) ebook with the title “Debunking the Seduction Community”. Currently, I am adding suggestions from my commenters and proof-readers.

Over the next few days, I will publish some sample chapters on my blog. Feel free to comment and send feedback.

The planned release date is mid-April.