Wednesday, September 26, 2012

An RSD Escape Story


The following is a "survivor story" from C. who has been heavily involved with RSD. I particularly like how he analyzes the mind games the community plays, unknowingly or not, and how mere "belief" can make you ignore blatant inconsistencies.

Real Social Dynamics is often compared to a cult, and I can definitely see why people make this conclusion. Just think about how RSD, as C. writes, always mentions a "higher level". This could be taken straight out of the playbook Scientology uses. Of course, to reach those higher levels, you've got to take more bootcamps and more training, and just like Scientology, they slowly suck your bank account dry.

Also, please pay special attention to the section where C. discusses the "fucking huge elephant in the room", and RSD's "cult of the cold approach."

==========================================

Dude, great website! My mind has been completely blown over the last few days reading your posts and blog - it's all so clear now. Anyway, perhaps you want to put this on your blog as a "survivor story" or something but I just wanted to say thanks for spreading the truth and helping me clear my head of all that bullshit!

I used to be massively involved in RSD - bootcamps, world summits, hot seats etc. and even though I have a girlfriend now I still believed their stuff and basically gave them credit for all my success. Until I started reading your website. It's amazing how RSD creates so much confusion and bullshit for something so simple - I honestly think that they believe their own bollocks now.


I started in the "community" in 2008. Within a month of starting I met a number of girls that I failed to pull the trigger on and then I met my ex girlfriend in a bar. I literally had the blueprint for a "perfect" approach on that one. I talked to her for a minute and then went to the bar. Half an hour later she appeared next to me with her friend with her back to me. I tapped her on the shoulder, she turned around with the biggest smile on her face and we got chatting. Make out. Got her number and then she had to go. We met up the following week and I fucked her. We were together for 6 months until my immaturity and lack of experience caused me to overreact and dump her. So basically I did a "test approach", walked away and then she showed me she liked me by her proximity. Then I just escalated! Simple. If I'd continued to do that I wouldn't have needed the community. But no, I got suckered in.

I asked her why she hooked up with me and she said "I thought you were the best looking guy I'd seen in years". The sick thing about the "community" is that when I mentioned this to other community members and "experts" and they told me that "she doesn't know what she is talking about" or worse "its a rationalisation, you were just doing everything right but didn't know it". The disturbing thing about that line is that when you do the same thing with other girls and they don't respond well then you don't look at the obvious fact that she wasn't into you. It had to be your "game", and that even though you thought you were doing the same things you were before maybe she "sensed you didn't 100% believe in yourself" or some fucking bullshit like that. This keeps you trapped in this mental mindfuck.

At the same time I started reading a lot of RSD, I brought Flawless Natural and the Blueprint. I got a couple of ONS's after that. The funny thing was that I didn't "use" any of the techniques or mindsets in those products, the ONS "just happened". Like every hook up that happened to me before and during the community, there was no rhyme or reason to it. The girl was receptive and we fucked. Damn, before the community I fucked a stripper and then two girls from the same office within the space of a few weeks. Did I do any "game"? Nope. The way they get you is a promise of "consistency" - I was inconsistent before the community because it was always social circle and the occasional "cold approach". They lead you to believe that the times you got laid or had success wasn't due to the fact that by sheer statistics you had met a girl that was into you, but because it was something you did, or said or an attitude that you had. This leads you to investigating the techniques thinking "damn if I can just replicate what I did then I'll pull every girl I want".

I then took a bootcamp. The name of the instructor is irrelevant because ultimately they teach the same thing: approach and escalate (depending on the instructor that could be escalate slowly aka Alex or escalate fast aka every other instructor). After the bootcamp my "game" exploded. I was banging left and right. Why? Because I was approaching more girls! You don't realise it after or during bootcamp but the whole thing is a massive state pump mixed with some bullshit mental masturbation. The bootcamp just primes you to approach more and more and do the right thing - escalate. This is good. But the problem comes with the associated bullshit - the complicated inner game theories, their insistence that you are not quite finished yet and there is always "another level". They will never say to a client "well done you are complete". They tell you "you are enough" and then just when you've got things straight in your mind they pull the rug out under your feet - changing "attraction theories" etc. which require you to learn some new inner game theory. Then there are new instructors with new theories on things.  You are constantly being dangled a carrot that promises to explain why you've not been getting more lays/success or getting the uber hot girls. Maybe Julien's game will help me to the "next level" or Alex or Tyler or Jeffy or now Todd's back with some stuff. It completely ignores the possibility that it's all pre-determined.

Of course the instructors have publicly mentioned that its a "numbers game" - Tyler and especially Jeffy. Jeffy cites "Evil Stifler" his "natural friend" who just approaches everywhere and escalates on girls. Apparently he had fucked over 600 girls. I believe this because the guy apparently doesn't do anything else besides hitting on girls. The problem is that they then add a caveat that even though it's a numbers game you have got to be sure you have "momentum" or that you "communicate man-to-woman" or that you have "entitlement" and can "look into her eyes without wavering cos a woman can tell if you are present or not" (complete mental wankery).

The problem is that you believe it because its such a cognitive dissonance to not believe it. When you have taken a bootcamp and invested time and money in them and SEEN your results SHOOT UP you automatically assume it's the "techniques" or "inner game" or whatever you believe they have given you. You never think that they have just pumped you to approach more and then taken credit for your results that would have normally happened, if you are socially normal and not fucking ugly, whether you approached that girl "man-to-woman" or "friend-to-friend" or "out of state" or whatever.

Tyler even shows a video where he "pulls out of state". He then pulls some theory out of his ass that it's because he was "authentic to his emotions" and sometimes "girls will like you for being authentic even if you aren't in state". He fails to explain that she would have liked him anyway whether he was authentic or not - she found him attractive. But the truth is in there, hidden away within that authentic statement - he is half right, she liked him when he was being authentic because he wasn't being wierd. The fact she was attracted to him was a coincidence. It wasn't the fact he was authentic to his emotions that got him the attraction. She was already attracted and the fact he was fucking normal and not forcing "game" when he wasn't feeling great meant he didn't weird her out and she felt she could act on that attraction.

The sad thing is, and I've seen Tyler actually say this while acting out his "warm-up" process for a night. He says (mimicking himself walking into the club) "Oh, I'm not in state yet so no-one is going to fuck me" so that's his rationale for approaching a load of girls - not to see which ones like him but to actually become attractive. Then of course he says "but you are enough and girls will like you just for you.......but you've got to be in state to be attractive......but you can also pull if your not in state......but it's better to be in state......but don't worry about not being in state......and by the way if you need clarification about what is right and what is wrong then you are immature and not at the level of game that I and my instructors (people you look up to and want to be) are because we, like all the top elite level gamers, can hold multiple conflicting ideas in our heads and don't need to clarify which is right and which is wrong." Which leaves everyone confused as to what to do and makes them think that the problem is on their end and not on RSD's teachings.

Then you have the differences between the instructors styles - Alex who just says "approach, talk, make moves" and is all about being friendly and escalating very slowly versus Jeffy who is all about "approach, communicate man-to-woman, express not impress". Jeff (and Tyler) state that if you talk to the girl "friend-to-friend" then she won't be attracted to you. Well, Alex talks to the girls "friend-to-friend" and he has plenty of girls attracted to him. I'm pretty sure they just skirt the issue, Tyler rambles on about "different styles but the core fundamentals are the same". Which is true, the core fundamentals are the same - they approach a lot of girls and screen out the ones that don't like them, whether that's through fast escalation (most of RSD) or slow escalation and reading the signals (Alex). That's the reality, but no they say - the core fundamentals are "Core confidence, not giving a fuck what people think, expressing not impressing, freedom from outcome, intent, blah blah blah".

The fucking huge Elephant in the room which everyone hooked into RSD ignores or doesn't recognise cos their brain is too clouded (which was myself until very recently) with RSD bullshit is that there is only ONE reason why two COMPLETELY CONTRADICTORY styles work.......

It doesn't matter what you say or do! It's pre-determined whether the girl fancies you and whether she will sleep with you. You can walk up and talk friend to friend and the girl will be into you or not. You can walk up man-to-woman and the girl will be into you or not. I've done both. Jeffy shows a video where he shows him talking to a girl at the beginning of the night. He is talking "friend-to-friend" aka like Alex. She laughs a bit and then walks off to find her friends. Jeffy explains that she doesn't fancy him BECAUSE he doesn't go "man-to-woman". He could be right in some respect, she could be deliberately out looking for dick and she fancies him but when she sees him not escalating she looks to find someone who will. But the causality of attraction isn't "escalation". Jeffy then shows a different girl later in the night that he is escalating on and she is into him - he states that this is because he is "man-to-woman" with her. Maybe, but it's more likely she would have still fancied him anyway.

You've still got to make moves, you've still got to move things forward with a girl you like and sometimes if she likes you and is just looking for dick and you don't escalate fast then she will ditch you to find someone who will. But escalation isn't a pre-requisite of attraction. If it was then nobody would ever receive approach invitations and I certainly wouldn't have had sex with half the girls I've fucked.

Of course there is no business model if they just say "it's all pre-determined and there is nothing you can do about it". Just improve your look and style and approach a ton of girls or look for those giving you AIs. Ironically, Tyler is into "freedom from outcome" - apparently it's the "key" to getting laid. Well, there is no bigger freedom from outcome when you realise it's all pre-determined and if a girl likes you there is nothing you can really do to fuck it up!

The whole looks debate with RSD is tiring as well - Tyler and Jeffy go on about how they aren't good looking, how none of their instructors are good looking except Brad (whose game apparently is "nothing to do with his looks"). Well actually, no instructor in RSD is "ugly" and for the most part they all have a good look. They have style - they dress "cool". They don't look like uber nerds (except Tyler) but even Tyer dressed well and looks good most of the time. Julien, well the dude is over 6 foot and dresses like an archetypal LA douchebag who fucks hot chicks. It's nothing to do with his "game". Jeffy talks about his height and how it can't be looks because he is short. Well, guess what, it seems there are a number of girls who find a well dressed, muscular, short, slightly assholish, charasmatic man with a mullet attractive. He just finds them, screens out the ones that are not attracted and fucks them. Simple.

It's all so obvious now - but when they've hooked you in, your brain just finds every reason why its true. And half the people on that forum aren't even interested now in fucking girls - cold approaching is all about becoming a better man, or becoming socially fearless. Not bad goals but certainly completely unneeded to get laid a lot. Cold approach for everyone on that forum becomes almost a dick measuring competition. RSD publically state that you need to do the "hardest approaches to grow". So to get better at the game you are supposed to chuck yourself into a situation where success is probably less than 1%. Then of course when you eventually have that inevitable success in that situation (pure statistics) you attribute it to your "game". Of course it doesn't make sense then in the next situation like that you do that the girl rejects you but that's a cognitive dissonance that you just ignore. Indeed Jeffy even states that he "doesn't remember his rejections" - cognitive dissonance that his brain ignores.

Ozzie has his students stand in the middle of London being socially weird to give them confidence to approach girls. At least in his defence he says once you have no fear and just approach then there is nothing you need to do - if she likes you its on. You can't make her like you. But the rest of it - doing "fear drills" each night is a waste of time when you can just find girls that are into you and fuck you. That's going to boost your confidence more than overcoming your fears and being able to walk up to that girl in an impossible situation and "survive 2 minutes of conversation".

In RSD's eyes anyone who doesn't "cold approach" is a faggot - if you gave them the choice between having a lifestyle set up where they could bang the hottest girls constantly (film actor, model photographer, famous DJ etc.) or cold approach I think they would choose cold approach. I remember reading on the forum that someone asked Julien and Brad about this and they said they wouldn't want it because they would get "bored"! It's clear that it's not about the pussy but about showing off to their mates and becoming some kind of fearless machine because it means they have "core confidence" rather than "situational confidence" - i.e. they would rather get less hot pussy just so they can say "well that dude is only getting laid cos he is famous/rich and if you took him out of that environment he would not get laid - I can get laid anywhere, I have core confidence and he doesn't" --- completely missing the point that unless the whole of western society breaks down Jamie Foxx or whoever is never going to not be in that situation! I'd rather have situational confidence and be banging chicks like Vinnie Chase than be running around every night of my life chasing girls down the street. There is a reason RSD followers struggle to overcome their fear of what people think, its because everyone with any social intelligence instinctively realises that what Tyler and co promote is just fucking weird.

I remember being out with so called "naturals" who would just spot a girl giving them the eye, approach and escalate and get laid. I, on the other hand, would run around approaching until finally hooking up with --- Surprise, surprise! --- a girl who gives me the eye or makes it obvious from the first few minutes that she is into me. The brainwashing is so strong that you ignore these guys who tell you "dude stop approaching so much and watch for the girls that want you to approach" - you think that it's "chode" or that they are just taking what they can get. Despite the fact that you approached 50 girls to get laid that night and they approached 1 you still think it's better because there could be a shy girl who hasn't the courage to look at you even though it has never gone down that way before.

The level of brainwashing is so strong that I ended up still believing in it despite hooking up with my now girlfriend with no "game" whatsoever. I believed it was down to my "becoming an attractive man" after bootcamp, completely ignoring the fact that I was always attractive to girls and RSD had literally fuck all to do with it apart from encouraging me to approach and escalate towards sex, hence getting me laid more and me naturally concluding that it was RSD that made it so. RSD is sinister and highly manipulative.

If I look back at every girl that I fucked, fingered, got a blow job from, made out with it was "on" from the first few minutes. That was the case before game, during and now I'm in a relationship so it doesn't matter. It was "easy" and it just clicked, attraction already existed. Sure there were logistical obstacles but that's all you really need to "learn" in the game. Dealing with logistics and being ruthlessly efficient - screening girls out and being ruthless with the girls that already like you.

I wish I hadn't wasted so much money on their products, I wish someone had showed me this from the beginning but then again everything happens for a reason and I have fucked a lot of girls since joining this community. I just wish I hadn't been sold a lie and RSD hadn't taken credit for something that was always mine in the first place!

28 comments:

  1. Beautiful! I kinda have a similar story lol.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Great read. If for nothing else, it's giving me some food for thought - I've learned my 'game' from Jeffy-Ozzy-Sleazy, in that order, but had some philosophical stumbles / controversies in my head regarding my success and dry spills.

    Thank you OP!

    On another note, regarding our argument a couple of months ago about how the instructors look at students... I've talked with another local instructor, who's also a qualified psychologist regarding this, and he made a real spot-on post about the core problem with the industry, if you want to feature it here I can translate it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You've definitely caught my interest. Feel free to email me. You find a contact form on aaronsleazy.com. I'm looking forward to that post.

      Delete
  3. I'm going to just refer to myself as "swagbeans" (mostly in jest) on this blog simply because I am a bit paranoid about somebody finding out about my past mishaps trying to become a PUA.

    I just wanted to say that I had two experiences trying to get into this and they were similar to yours but with a key difference. I was pretty much entirely lone wolf and never ever did a "bootcamp" or anything like that--instead using materials from Stylelife and briefly joining the online Stylelife academy. I did this twice.

    The first time was in 2010--and I did a lot of cold approaches but never used very much "material". I saw some significant, though not profound, improvements. Eventually I seemed to lose the willpower (in hindsight, my brain was telling me to stop being a weirdo) and I didn't attempt it again until 2012.

    The second time around, I did everything in my power to be as "methodical" as possible. Despite working twice as hard this time, my success was a fraction of what it was. I'm still embarrassed that I actually remember a woman putting her hands all over me and thinking that somehow if I didn't "neg" her that it wouldn't lead to sex (turns out that the road to hell is paved with negging.) I actually randomly ran into this website, expected "a good laugh", and realized that I was the fool.

    The good news is that the results were clear once I had some time to think about this: my problem was social anxiety--not some lack of "technique". Ever since realizing that it was about escalating, I've made good progress; though I'm still having some trouble due to social anxiety (I won't go into this because I was just hoping to compare my own experience--not give my entire PUA-saga). Looking back, even DURING these PUA quests, I would approach, but get squeamish about escalating.

    All this bullshit about "state" and whatever else they talk about did two bad things: (1) focused on the wrong problems, and (2) reinforced the narrative that causes these problems. I developed a bad habit over the past few years of taking every rejection as a sign that there's something wrong with me and believing that every success is dumb luck. Being someone who is 6'0, ~160lbs, olive-complexioned, dark-haired, green-eyed, strong-jawed, etc. I thought that I just didn't have the "personality". Re-evaluating that, but now I have another thing to do: get over my embarrassment at making a fool out of myself trying these canned openers and "negs" (though actually people do like figuring out the 5th ocean--hell if I know why; not that I'd do it now) and get back to being assertive in a reasonable way.

    Apologies if that got too tangential--I always end up writing a lot when I write something.

    -swagbeans

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Read my blog when you get sometime - http://anti-pua-johnny.blogspot.com. You sound very similar in many ways to me and I have a feeling you will like and be able to relate to my blog a lot. It is essentially my experiences with doing PUA

      Delete
    2. My original problem was trying to impress girls or do something for them. PUA just reinforced those attitudes while simultaneously telling me to not be supplicating bitch. That bugged me for years. God, was I foolish.

      Delete
  4. Good stuff

    Sleazy, I really dig your debunking the community. Im sure alot of fellow RSD guys would appreciate if you look up RSD alex "natural instincts method" and write an article about it, its a video about 1.5hour or so, you can see it here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pStv5PyANyI&feature=plcp

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's two hours. I'm not sure I could stomach that.

      Delete
  5. I understand, anyway if u get time over some time I know theres lots of guys who would value ur opinion on this vid.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Interesting thoughts, Thanks for sharing!

    I feel a little weird when I think of how a few weeks ago I would have rejected any other lifestyle than the "cold approach mastery". However, I wouldn't "blame" RSD for brainwashing me in any way, since it is our (yours and my) responsibility to maintain an open minded skepticism that allows us to expose unprofitable ideas and beliefs such as those you were talking about (approaching many girls, having to become good at game etc).

    Something about RSD is very magnetic and it makes you dismiss any other thinking - including the possibility that even "sexual abundance" might not be a goal that is worth going for for some of us. As soon as you get into it, sexual abundance becomes your lifegoal.,,

    I mean, who knows?

    Has anybody ever thought about that SLEEPING WITH A LOT OF GIRLS MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO?

    I don't say that it actually is. In fact, I had only one girlfriend in my life, because I got into the community when I was so young - and never questioned the teachings. Now I do.

    I used to say stuff like "I will not have a girlfriend again until I am 30". Really, How stupid it that? If you meet a girl that is awesome as a person, why would you not be together with her? In favor of "mastering cold approach"?

    I guess my point is that there is a lot more about our beliefs that should be investigated than only whether a certain PU-Companies teachings are good. My recent realization about the community taught me that.

    David

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wow, this "C" guy is brilliant. I never noticed the RSD trap-cycle. A year ago, I thought Blueprint Decoded was the greatest thing ever made. It's just a series of slightly good nuggets with insane subtle RSD promotion in between. I never bought/purchased anything from RSD, but my mind was invested.

    But geez is it a genius manipulative loop. C really hit it home with his wording.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Very solid post ! Props to OP and thanks Aaron for sharing it.
    I’d like to add something about consistency of results: consistency of non-painful, negative results. If you have anxiety around people and girls, the “community” gives you a bazillion reason as to why getting laid is indeed a huge deal, defines your social status, worth as a person, etc. This way, if you already tend to be anxious about it (which was probably the reason for lack of sexual/social life in the first place), your anxiety explodes and you tend to attach yourself to the solution presented as miraculous to solution this anxiety.
    The worst part is that it is hard to adopt really the behaviors taught by the community since they correspond to the average narcissistic sociopathic asshole. So you’re here with enhanced anxiety and you know –or think you know-the way to avoid it forever, but you can never totally adopt these behaviors and bullshit mindsets, so you’re in for yet another seminar which will finally give you THE KEY to freedom.
    Another reason for anxiety increase is that, by advising you to meet girls in the most random of environment, they are getting you to internalize that a lot more things can happen than what the average guy will experience by meeting people normally. By meeting people randomly in random places in weird ways, anything can happen, and since those behaviors are new to you, you cannot predict what might happen to you (contrarly to your regular behavior) which causes stress and you have to do it again and again to become comfortable with this anti-social loser behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Followed
    The part about situational confidence is awesome. Once again, this “core confidence” idiocy comes from a common sense idea, that you shouldn’t take things too personally. From this obvious idea stems this bullshit mental masturbation that your emotional state should never vary according to the situation. Not only is it impossible to attain, it is also counterproductive, since not feeling confident in situation you don’t master or understand is the key to either bettering yourself in that field or avoid it altogether. Being insensitive to situational issues is comparable to not feeling any physical pain: people suffering from such malfunctions don’t live long because they cannot tell when they are being harmed or not. Same goes for your social life and personality: if you always feel okay whatever happens, you will just spend your life doing nothing, like all instructors do, and the reason they can do that is because they have “students” (jeeze, what a usage for this word) to sell this bullshit idea in order to sustain this parasitic lifestyle. The only reason for instructors to dismiss situational confidence is their fear of being exposed as fakers, which will inevitably come from fucking girls through your lifestyle, i.e. seeing them again and again. By always meeting new girls in an environment where they aren’t known, they feel they can totally master the image they are projecting, which they are after. They don’t even really want chicks: they want to feel like studs. Which is probably why many students end up dropping the pursuit of chicks: you don’t need to score to become a caricature of frat morons.
    The most interesting thing is that the “student”, once he starts going down this route, will progressively become unable to function properly socially, fueled either by narcissism or fear deeper down the hole of personal marginality, and the best way for them to sustain this lifestyle will become to sell the same “advice” again. And again, and again, which somehow turns the whole thing into a sort of bullshit Ponzi scheme, where profit for top people come from screwing people underneath, who then have to do the same thing.
    It’s pretty crazy what you can do to escape fear or for ego, and in this case, it boils down to doing everything wrong. The guys who were more normal to begin with and claim they found value in the community generally are fooled by randomness, as put by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. Coincidence of result with a new practice does not guarantee causality, especially when you are trying ten times as hard as before.
    Stay the fuck away from the community.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Damn, excellent post.

    This points out the exactly the thing that invalidates all the 'PUA' and 'game' BS: If the girl likes you, then just about anything will work (unless you're completely retarded).

    You also make a great observation about guys thinking their results have something to do with their 'mad PUA skillz'. Their increased sex has everything to do with guys going from meeting 1 girl a month to upwards of hundreds every week or month and nothing to do with all that other BS.

    Guys would do well to simply identify women who are into them from the start (who you also find attractive) and then enjoy having normal, mutually enjoyable experiences with them.

    Guys who look closely at the PUA stuff (not recommended) will see that it all rests on the assumption that: Women do not like men and in order for men to get laid they will have to do a special trick to make her like him.
    The harder the girl is to get, the more ego and group validation they get. This is also why they will value a woman who is 'hard-to-get' over an identically attractive woman who is into them from the start (and therefore tends to be easy to have sex with).

    @anonymous poster above me: Incedentally, the guys I've known who get laid the most (more than the 600 mentioned by the RSD coach) by the hottest AND guys who enjoy the longest-lasting and mutually happy relationship share the mindset of simply focusing on finding women with whom there is mutual interest right from the start, rather than trying to get the 'hard-to-get' girls (hard-to-get really just means she isn't into you. She would be easy if she liked you from the start. Think she'll be hard-to-get when Brad Pitt walks in?

    Real-life works more along the lines of: Women want to find a guy they like. All guys really gotta do is meet her. If you're meeting women then 'PUA' (I'm looking at you, RSD) will massively retard your results.

    Props on getting out of that sh*tstorm. I've known guys who have ruined their lives because they started living through the beliefs propagated at RSD.

    - Jack

    ReplyDelete
  11. From reading the story (and I have no love for RSD, I think they're weird)... he still wouldn't have gotten a lot of those girls if not for RSD right? From the training and bootcamps? He wouldn't have noticed the girls who were interested in him, or he may not have had the confidence to approach?

    Sure a lot of what they taught him was superfluous. But he still was successful thanks to the investment he put in, and never would have been had it not been for his training.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am baffled how you were able to make this conclusion. Please read this post again.

      Delete
    2. Why do my posts keep getting rejected? I always accept yours on my site.

      Delete
    3. the cognitive dissonance and rationalizations from gamers are just insane......

      I hear this all the time "focus on the positive and not on the negative". To bad then that the negatives usually outweigh the few positives.

      Delete
    4. 3rdmilleniummen,

      all comments are placed on a moderation queue, and I only approve those that add something to the discussion. If someone merely restates what has been said before by others, then the post won't show up. Sometimes, I am simply busy for some days, or even a week, and don't approve any comments, because I just don't get around to do it.

      Some months ago there were a couple of posts who ended up getting over 100 comments, and it was just a big mess. After that, I began actively moderating them because I otherwise wouldn't know how to manage this time-wise. Pointless and repetitive discussions can easily get out of hand, and they serve absolutely nobody (well, apart from maybe some PUA shills who want to spread the kind of misinformation AlekNovy addresses further down.)

      Delete
    5. Okay I'll repeat what I previously wrote, since you asked me to read the post again and I responded to your comment.

      The crux of what I said was: "he still wouldn't have gotten a lot of those girls if not for RSD".

      You said "I am baffled how you were able to make this conclusion".

      The reason I say this is because of what he said: After the bootcamp my "game" exploded. I was banging left and right. Why? Because I was approaching more girls! You don't realise it after or during bootcamp but the whole thing is a massive state pump mixed with some bullshit mental masturbation. The bootcamp just primes you to approach more and more and do the right thing - escalate. This is good. But the problem comes with the associated bullshit...

      3MM: I'm sure that they throw in a lot of ridiculous stuff. BUT whe it comes down to it, he STILL BANGED MULTIPLE GIRLS HE WOULDN'T HAVE OTHERWISE. Cut away a lot of the crap, but you're still left with banging more girls.

      And I'm not a proponent of RSD, like I said a lot of their stuff seems weird.

      Delete
    6. Dude, this is called the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The crucial part is that he is a good looking guy. RSD shoved a ton of bullshit down his throat.

      Again, the reason he got laid is, yes, because he approached girls, but this is just the smallest part of it. The teachings of RSD, like "state" and whatnot were totally irrelevant. Don't you think he wouldn't have had the same result if, instead of attending a bootcamp, he went out with some dude who merely said, "Man, approach that chick!"? The effect would very likely have been the same.

      What about all the other guys who go through RSD bootcamps but are not good looking, and nonetheless approach a lot of girls? Well, obviously their game does not "explode". Instead, they are the sad cases who approach 1,000 chicks and get absolutely nothing out of it. If you claim that RSD deserves credit for the good-looking guy who gets laid, then why aren't you consequential and say that they are also responsible for all the guys who go through their bootcamps and don't get better with women at all?

      Delete
    7. Thanks for putting me through bro.

      "Don't you think he wouldn't have had the same result if, instead of attending a bootcamp, he went out with some dude who merely said, "Man, approach that chick!"? The effect would very likely have been the same."

      No, I don't. Putting himself out there and paying money for it made him go harder and push further than he ever would have otherwise. Furthermore, men who have helped other men approach women have skills that your average friend doesn't.

      As I've previously written about my own bootcamp experience - "On the first night of the bootcamp, the chains broke free. The trainers made me realise that I am a man with value and relevance that any girl should want to be with, no matter how beautiful. I learned how to demonstrate higher value, and to be proud of the person who I am. I learned how to approach the most beautiful and alpha girls I meet. I have had trainers who genuinely wanted to help me improve and to provide a first impression to girls that is worthy of who I am, allowing them to want to be a part of me and my life."
      http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/01/game-doesnt-work/

      I still think that improving your attractiveness as a man will allow you to do better and pickup higher than you could have otherwise. Obviously not ever guy who's ever taken a bootcamp will get 10s. But if they can learn things they've been doing drastically wrong and narrowing their chances, it's a plus. If they can in turn learn some better ways to interact with women, it will help them get BETTER girls or at least SOME girls, which they may not have been able to do otherwise.

      Delete
    8. Let's imagine one guy claims to be a "work out guru" and he promises guys that he'll make them bench press 250 lb. even when they've never lifted weights in their life.

      Subsequently, six dudes sign up to his seminar. He has two long sessions on theory and the philosophy of bench pressing and whatnot. Finally, he's got a "field trip" component where guys finally set foot in a gym. He let's everyone bench press. Five guys go nowhere, some even get injured. The sixth guy, however, bench presses the 250 lb. easily. Stunned, he tells his friends, "That dude set me free. He removed my shackles and unlocked my chains!!1"

      But what has actually happened: five guys were simply in a very poor shape, and the sixth guy was working a physically demanding job and thus found it very easy to bench press.

      You see where I am going with this, don't you?

      Delete
  12. *round of applause*
    Having been in RSD, heavily I must say, for a few years this was a very nice read, and very TRUTHFUL.

    "RSD is sinister and highly manipulative." Bullseye!

    ReplyDelete
  13. --"Despite the fact that you approached 50 girls to get laid that night and they approached 1 you still think it's better because there could be a shy girl who hasn't the courage to look at you even though it has never gone down that way before."

    We've seen this before in many debates on this blog. This was a common theme in the "cold approach is useless" topics where PUA zombies would come and be like... "BUT what if I miss out on the shy girls who's a super hot irreplaceable 10 and the best fuck of my life, but too scared to show me a signal (hence) I must get rejected by 50 women a night, just in case one of them is the type that doesn't give signals, but wants me"....

    ReplyDelete
  14. I disagree that it's always "pre-determined." Most of the women I've slept with had no idea I even existed before I approached them, and were turned on by HOW I approached and talked to them. So it was a process I controlled to some degree.

    Waiting for a signal means you'll be waiting a long time, unless you are super good looking.

    I totally agree about RSD though. A bunch of nutjobs who don't actually take the job of TEACHING seriously.

    The way to get girls is to value your time, your health, your body, your career, and do your best in those areas. Get in shape, dress well, don't poison yourself, and stay focused on a career you are passionate about.

    When you see a hot girl, go up and talk to her. From there, it's really a matter of NOT screwing it up by being weird, pushy, or timid.

    Unfortunately, finding this balance is VERY difficult for MOST men. Most men have ZERO game, and rely on social circle, or work, dating the women that give them clear signals (but aren't necessarily the women they are most attracted to).

    Great post!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nobody said it was "always" pre-determined. Regarding signals: most men are simply oblivious to them and seemingly think that women would be as aggressive as in porn movies if they were into them. If she's interested, it's basically only a matter of not fucking it up. Of course, logistics play a role too, but the most important aspect is whether she's attracted to you. However, this is a decision she'll have made before you've opened your mouth. This fact is indirectly confirmed by the abysmally low success rates of "gamers".

      Apart from that, we fully agree with each other.

      Delete
  15. Excellent post. I've got to go out of my way to thank "C" and Aaron Sleazy for putting this up. "C" has done a great job in explaining some of the mindf**k, dissonance and self-blame tactics RSD uses.

    I was only in the community for about a year and a half, and it was after doing a boot camp the the mega narcissist Alex, did I slowly come to "C's" conclusion.

    Most community men have abandoned common sense and replaced with RSD brainwashing. The notion that it could be predetermined whether a girl already likes you or not, is something RSD fan boys can't accept because they've been sold on the idea that the socially awkward nerd, or morbidly obese couch potato can consistently sleep with Victoria Secret models if only their game is good enough. RSD is no different from Walt Disney in that sense, there is always a happy ending and completely blinds you from reality.

    Cold approaching is simply a means of screening out those girls who like you. If that was all they focused on, and didn't espouse all these BS theories like "being man-to-woman", "freedom from outcome", "draw state from within" etc, then RSD wouldn't be so bad. But like what others have said, there isn't much money to be made from the premise that women can think for themselves and are already into without all this game BS.

    I'd hope at the end of the day common sense would prevail, but I've know men who have been in the community for 6 to 8 years now. Like all cults some people see through the BS and escape in time, whilst others become ensare and entrapped by it.

    Still to this day, I can't believe how much RSD ideology turned me into a reality denialist, and things really are as simple as a girl's attraction to you being already predetermined.

    Great blog and great post. I share this link with all the RSD fan boys I know, hopefully it'll wake them up.

    ReplyDelete