I thought I had moved on from bashing Daygame.com (original post, follow-up 1, follow-up 2), but just as I thought I was out, they pull me back in again. It all started with a reader pointing me towards a thread on the Daygame.com forum that revealed that the camera man was indeed in on the whole thing. Not that this comes as a surprise to anybody with half a brain.
Sadly, the link to the video has been removed by Andy Yosha. It seems to have contained a statement of the hired actress that the camera man had known about the fact that she was getting pair for her "kiss close", and that Daygame.com was looking to hire "friends" of hers for other videos. The thread starts promising:
Sooo... it seems Tom's statement about the camera guy not knowing about the scam was a lie... again...
It didn't take long until a Daygame.com moderator tried RSD-style "reframing":
I think you really need to move on from all this. Everyone else has.I wonder how this defence would work in more serious environments, say the lawyer of a fraudster telling the judge that he really needs to move on already.
I was glad to see that not everybody swallowed the Daygame.com bullshit spin on that matter:
So just to get this straight, tom lied in his statement about the cameraman not knowing (which the actress has now exposed) and about trying to get other actresses for fake videos (which andy exposed in the text where tom asks the girl for more friends).
That finishes it for me. I wouldnt trust him on anything now. Complete scammer in my opinion.
Honestly, it's probably the best for him to retire and shut down his business. Seriously. There are definitely much better AND more successful scammers out there like RSD. They brought this to perfection over a wider period than Tom. Why paying 100 GBP for an actress who has web presence and exposure if you just simply can pay a hooker/stripper...?!
However, go through that thread some more and you'll invariably have to shake your head:
My opinion of Tom Torero has definitely been affected by this incident, and also by the coincidental arrival on the same day of his book. In both cases he basically reads as someone who is trying to prove something to the world to satisfy his own ego or past insecurities.
So he's human. I am not about to start judging him too harshly when I know I have had my own flaws and difficult lessons to learn. As far as I'm concerned the only person he has hurt with this little incident is himself. I have not met him and yet his work (DATM, GFS) and his students (Sam, Martin, etc) have had a measurable positive impact on my life.
Let's cut him some slack and see what he does from here.
How dumb can someone be? He was exposed as a fraud and scammer, which means that he doesn't deserve to be cut some slack, and neither does it show that he is human. If anything, it has shown the contrary. How human is someone who elaborately defrauded his fellow human beings?
However, PortlandPUA takes the cake with this incredible idiocy:
Honestly, my opinion has not changed at all about Tom. I still think he is an amazing teacher, someone who has no doubt changed my life.
I'm blown away by what these trolls are doing, its just kind of weird.
How does anything change because the video is fake? The bottom line should always be what YOU get from something, regardless of how it is achieved. If you learned from Tom, and your life has been changed in a positive way (mine has), then this incident should be meaningless. His work pushed me to change myself. He could make up all the fake videos in the world because at the end of the day I have changed, grown, become more of the man I want to be because of Tom Torero and Daygame.com
If this fake video thing really upsets you that much, all it says to me is that you took very little action. You mentally masturbated to someone who you thought was a god and when you find out he wasn't you totally disown him. I pity that type of person. There is a whole world out there and one day you will die.
On your deathbed will you say "Man I STILL can't believe Tom did that!!" or will you say "I was presented an idea and based on that idea I took action and found out FOR MYSELF if the idea was true."
Daygame is real. It exists, at least to me. I can't say that statement would be true if I never found Tom's work. And that would suck.
How contemptible. You keep conflating any criticism against an individual (who DID lie, in the hopes of boosting his reputation and therefore money) as criticism against daygame in general, or the value of his advice.
Idiot #4 chimes in:
And if everyone takes note, the guys who are agreeing with what Portland PUA has stated are the guys who actually have taken action and are achieving good results.
What's that say to you?
The one sensible guy in this thread rebuked Idiot #4 along similar lines:
It says to me (I hope I can be proved wrong) that this community is far more insular than I had thought. Why are you setting up a false-dichotomy where either a) you're willing to speak out against being duped and you've never done any approaches, or b) you have done some approaches and got this to work and therefore cannot ever criticize Tom. Fuck that! You make daygame sound like a cult.
Jeer all you want, but I find it laughable that you cannot separate criticism of a person/behavior from criticism of daygame in general. I've done daygame long enough to know it's legit. I have no doubts about Tom being a skilled daygamer. I didn't regret a single penny spent on the bootcamp I took through Tom's company, but that doesn't for a second mean that I've given up my right to criticize what was dishonest marketing to exploit consumers.Note that you can very well criticise daygame and at the same time think that Tom and Daygame.com are scammers. One does not preclude the other.
Are people really that stupid, or are they simply shills:
The bottom line is that anybody who goes around wishing others ill or seeks to undermine them has their own self-esteem issues.
If daygame doesn't work, or what Tom teaches doesn't work, it's fair to say we will notice for ourselves.
If someone goes around trying to spread negativity with emotive language, (eg "scam", "lie", etc) about daygame or Tom I think it only says things about that person, not daygame or Tom.Emotive language he says? Fuck off right there. As a matter of fact Tom and Daygame.com have deceived the public, and tricked them out of money. But, hey, maybe they were doing God's work?
If the camera guy knew, this goes beyond just Tom Torero.
And Yes Daygame works blah blah blah..
I hope this was mean to be ironic.