Saturday, December 6, 2014

Guy tries to speak some sense, gets ridiculed

Recently someone alerted me to a rather tragic post on some commercial PUA forum. It starts with the user “legitscumbag” posting some hard earned wisdom:

I am a guy who has been studying/practicing "pickup" for quite some time.I don't do it anymore though.I get laid alot more after dropping it too (like as in actually having sex,not getting laughs and phone numbers that go nowhere).There is a girl laying in my bed right now naked as I am typing this in fact. 
I came here to share some hard earned knowledge that will save you alot of needless suffering. 
That knowledge is the realization that pick up is a bunch of crap and it doesn't actually work.


Why doesn't pickup work? 
It seems pretty great at first...especially for a guy with little experience with women.Get any girl.Have tons of sex.Never again have to be anything but a totally confident guy who gets laid all the time...a super hero... 
Wrong. 
Pickup doesn't work because it's all about creating attraction 
Which is impossible. 
You can't "create" attraction.It isn't what witty things you say to her...she is already attracted to you physically from the get go or she isn't.At that point just don't screw it up and you're in.If she isn't then you are not going to be able to win her over with your "game".

What happens is what we’ve seen over and over. Sometimes this plays out in the comment section on my forum, when some shill comes out of the woodworks and bites off more than he can chew.

You know the real estate mantra “location, location, location”. In the realm of dating, one could say “physical attraction, physical attraction, physical attraction”:

Think about it in reverse. Do you care how cool a girl is or what she says if she is 350lbs,ugly as hell,and the thought of kissing her makes you want to puke? I didn't think so. 
It's so obvious it's astounding. 
Sure,if a girl is hot and cool that is even better.But all that guys care about first and foremost is,is she hot?Her being cool only comes into play if she is already physically attractive to the guy. 
Well it is the same thing for girls.Who would have thought.


The few replies this guy gets are beyond belief:

First of all most woman dont base their selection of men primarily on looks. This is of course what most AFC's believe, well this or money. Saying arousing attraction in a woman has to be organic is retarded.
This is of course the entire premise of game. Yeah, dude, learn some fancy routines and figure out at which angle to approach, and you too can bang SHB10s!


RSD Tyler-like mind games feature as well. It seems that in addition to learning how not to get laid, those dudes also took courses in how to make lame attempts at deflecting criticism:

You've taken the time to come to a forum dedicated to pick-up and made an account specifically to comment on something you think doesn't work. How strange/sad.


“legitscumbag” again:

Don't see how trying to help guys realize that something they might lose years,sanity,pussy,and money from following is strange/sad.Especially when the alternative is so simple.
Keep trying though

It doesn't take long until some dude from the very shallow end of the gene pool chimes in:

I agree with you that you can't create attraction, but that doesn't mean you cannot trigger it. 

We’ve also got some bona fide philosophers on there:

The greatest and final fact!!! This one is the best… check this out: YOU’RE GOING TO BE FUCKING DEAD SOONER THAN YOU THINK ANYWAY SO WHO IS GOING TO CARE WHAT HAPPENS!!!??? WHO GIVES A FUCKING RATS ASS. This part is the most amazing of all. Seriously how easy is this.

Thus, this thread contains the typical reactions: disbelief, deflection, ad hominem attacks. It's probably a good sign that there were only two pages of replies. In the hay days of PUA, those would probably have been two dozen, at least that's a figure I was used to when I was trying to speak some sense on some of the larger forums.

72 comments:

  1. There was another similar thread on the same forum about looks and attraction, that got a very different response.
    http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/looks-matter-click-here-and-decide-for-yourself-vt182978.html
    It seemed pretty split between "looks don't matter much" and "looks are very, very important".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jesus christ:
      "pickup is a form of direct marketing where a PUA can convince a woman to realize that she wants something when she might not have been looking for it in the first place. So, hypothetically, even if a guy isn't your type when it comes to looks, he can seduce you into having a ONS with him."
      What a need to overcomplicate things! If she finds you attractive, you have alread won half of the battle! And it's only a matter of keeping your cool and don't doing anything stupid or awkward!
      If she doesn't digs you, then you're literally forcing her to like you! Or even worse, you are trying to convince her "inconsciously" (holy shit) to get laid with you! That's so fucking lame, man!

      Delete
  2. One of the PUAs also said this:
    "I think we just operate from a different point of view. I believe that men can trigger attraction in women by working on themselves and being the best version of themselves that they can be. I see the whole "pickup" just as guidlines for self-development, so i think we are both right."
    Oh really? Trying to create a fake persona with routines and canned lines is "self-development"? Using "inner game" shit that is just the same old self help shit with another label?
    Why not just getting in shape? That makes you look good (and also feel healthier too!)? Getting a good job and investing in yourself, in your personal image and doing what YOU want and not what an online guru pulls from his ass? That would be more rewarding than repeating "positive affirmations" in front of a mirror every night, lol.

    Also this:
    "By the way, you could release a program "How to trigger mens attraction for whales" and it could contain only one answer: "Get in shape!""
    Yeah, because is totally fair that women must get laid with fat and ugly men because these men deserve it. But is totally unfair that a guy must stay with a land whale. What a fucking double standard. Quid pro quo, if you want to fuck hot girls, you must became hot. No routine or amount of charisma will avail you if you don't made a true effort to really became a "better version of yourself", and just resort to half assed methods.

    And thank you for taking notice of the link! :)
    Greetings from Mexico.

    ReplyDelete
  3. "I agree with you that you can't create attraction, but that doesn't mean you cannot trigger it. "

    Roll on the floor with this one, speechless! :)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Read this: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/23/class-pickup-artist-women-male-anxiety-julien-blanc

    It's an article on a seminar led by Richard la Ruina recently. I like the conclusion of the article:

    "A couple of the other more confident students were happily chatting away to the girls they had targeted, but most of the dozen or so painfully shy students were just standing at the bar watching the rest of us, unable to get over their nerves. It was apparent that they had paid £700 for the weekend and were going to come out of it with little to show but a dent in their bank balances.

    The pickup artist scene is a house of self-myth. The “master pickup artists” really don’t have much more going for them than a bit of self-confidence and, it seems, enough time on their hands to approach hundreds of women in bars and play a numbers game. After all, the videos they post on the internet don’t tend to include the times they are politely ignored."

    Something is common among pickup companies and "La Ruina" isn't an exception: stealing money from desperate guys against false hopes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. After all, the videos they post on the internet don’t tend to include the times they are politely ignored.

      That's the funniest part. RSD admits to taking hours to get a "good set" on video. Being that they approach like crazy, that's hundreds of sets they don't show you, to show the "1 in 150" sets.

      And then they mock the notion of a numbers game...

      Delete
    2. Alek, it isn't a number game if you know a little bit of conversational hypnosis where:

      1- you elicit suggestibility thanks to a naturalistic hypnotic induction.
      2 - you elicit a state of attraction.
      3 - through anchoring, you connect the state of attraction to you so that the woman suddenly becomes attracted to you.
      4 - you deliver a post hypnotic suggestion so that the girl remains attracted to you when you're not around her.

      Alek, forget about the current dating "expert$". They're clueless. Study how to elicit states and connect them to you. That's where the power resides because it works and only few people really know how to do this.

      Delete
    3. I hope this was meant to be an ironic post.

      Delete
    4. 5. Have your trained owl bring you your magic wand, and transport you and her to Paris for a romantic getaway.

      Delete
  5. I sometimes think that the notion "looks matter" is hard to swallow because a lot of guys are completely blind to how women perceive them.

    I'm probably speaking mostly from my own experience here, but when I read "looks matter", I always taught to myself: "well I'm doomed", even though a lot of women were giving me compliments.

    Too many guys also think that they have to be some brad pitt clone, for women to find them attractive.

    What do you think sleazy? You used to have issues with thinking you were ugly as well, wasn't it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think this is a very valid point. If your esteem and confidence is low, the chances are that you perceive yourself as being considerably less attractive than you actually are. Guys are usually capable of attracting better looking girls than they give themselves credit for. I'm certainly never going to grace the cover of Mens Health and Fitness or GQ, and in some ways I could argue that I'm quite facially challenged as I have a lazy eye that does create a negative impression with some girls. However, I've attracted some good looking women in the past, and nowadays I'm far more likely to recognise this and capitalise on it rather than being trapped in my own negative mindset. Also the obsession with picking up girls at the '9' and '10' level is symptomatic of a lack of experience with real women. I can't say I've ever attracted a girl who could be rated as absolutely top notch smoking hot, but if you can date a girl who is simply good looking and pleasant to be with, you soon learn that having the hottest girl in town on your arm has more to do with massaging your ego than it does with attraction.

      Delete
    2. I think the problem with "looks matter" is that most guys mishear it as:

      You have to be a born superhandsome chiseled male model to get laid, or otherwice accept having an ugly girlfriend you have to get by begging for months

      It might be more constructive to say "You have to be her type to attract her". Because that's what it's really about. It's about dispelling the notion that you can "create attraction".

      And also what "looks matters" means is that your most fit, in shape version will be more attractive than an out-of-shape version of you... But that's unfortunately not how guys read it.

      They read it as "so you're saying I have to be Brad Pitt to get laid at all" -> which is why they get so defensive.

      Delete
    3. Great post as usual.

      Thanks for sharing.

      Myself I interpret "looks matter" as "I'm doomed" sometimes.

      One thing I don't understand tho is : why can't I get women that are from another subculture than me (even for ONS) ? It's not written in my genes that I belong to X or Y subculture ! I always need to have at least something in common to fuck a woman (even for ONS).

      Delete
    4. I left one out, so what "looks matters really means is", as I said:

      1) You have to be her type physically, and that's individual to every woman
      2) The most fit version of you will attract a lot more women than an out-of-shape version of you (all else being equal)

      ***And I left out***

      3) Looks matters means you generally have to be within 3 points from the girl.

      - So to get a 10, its possible at most if you're a 7, though most likely if you're an 8 or a 9.

      - Fortunately this isn't so defeatist or bad as your physique goes into your overall looks. If you're a 5 naturally (face, body symmetry etc), getting a great physique can make you a 7... So even a "natural 5" can become attractive enough to date 10s.

      - Though anyone who has any experience with women will tell you that LITERALLY in real life you get NO additional joy or pleasure out of banging 10s than you do 8s, or even 7s... really. A cute 7 that has a tight body, you'll feel just as great banging her as a 10...

      Like anyone with good sexual experience will confirm this to you, there's literally zero additional benefit to banging 10s, you don't feel better, the orgasms aren't any better... they're not better to cuddle with than 8s... really.

      So really, there's no reason to ever feel bad about the fact that looks matter, it doesn't mean you're doomed to a shitty sex life.

      All that "looks matter means is

      1) "Don't be an obese slob that dresses like a bum, going around ONLY hitting on 10s and 9s, then crying about getting nowhere"

      2) Don't take it personally if you don't attract a girl, you're simply not her type. There's nothing she or you can do about it, it's just mismatching DNA... that's it, nothing to take personally.

      There are hundreds of millions of girls who are hot to other guys, but you can't get turned on by them, because they're just not your type. Despite there being nothing unattractive about these girls - they're just NOT YOUR TYPE.

      Delete
    5. "It might be more constructive to say "You have to be her type to attract her". Because that's what it's really about."

      I would like to draw your attention to Benedict Cumberbatch who enjoys quite some fame in recent years among female viewers. See for example here: http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/what-fame-looks-like-for-benedict-cumberbatch.html?mid=outbrainrc
      The title of the article mentioned above reads "Bedict and the Cumberbitches." That's right, no typo. It says Cumberbitsches! :)

      Delete
    6. "It might be more constructive to say "You have to be her type to attract her". Because that's what it's really about. It's about dispelling the notion that you can "create attraction"."

      Alek, I agree that you can't create attraction but the truth is, you can elicit it. You see, attraction is a physiological process that a woman can experience within her body. It's already there!! All you have to do is to trigger it conversationally and connect it to you. It works. I do it.

      Delete
  6. "Do you care how cool a girl is"

    I do. As long as she doesn't look like Jabba the Hutt, at least. Maybe that proves his point ;)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Just a random comment to say thank you to you Aaron Sleazy, Alek Novy and Johnny Anti-PUA. You all speak the truth and I enjoy reading you. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ... and I wholeheartedly concur! ;)

      Delete
    2. So do I :)

      Brent

      Delete
  8. Can less attractive guys even compete with good looking guys for one night stands with hot girls? Will hot girls ever lust after guys who arent good looking, but have preselection and game? And confidence? Im just starting to go out with the intention to pick up and chat with girls. I know for now, I won't be confident to approach a girl who's out of my league. Will I realistically have a shot with them, when I'm good enough? Do you have friends that arent good looking and get the same quality of girls that you get?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Depends on what you mean by "hot girls"

      - If you mean supermodels (top 0.1% of pornstars or top 10% of models), then NO.

      - If you simply mean cute girls with tight bodies, then YES.

      And why would you view "cute girls with tight bodies" as being out of your league?
      Those are 7s and 8s really. Are you naturally a 4 or something!??

      Notice that "leagues" aren't exact. It's more like a range, where you can get girls within 2-3 points from you, due to subjectivity and tastes and personal preferences... If you're a 6, then sevens and eights are "in your league".

      And if you are actually a "4", then get well-defined, get muscular, get some amazing clothes and you'll become a 6-7. Cute girls with tight bodies (sevens and eights) will be in your league easy.

      Delete
    2. Approach her anyway! You never know, maybe she has bad eyesight.

      Delete
    3. That's a really brilliant reply, dude! ;)

      Delete
  9. A lot of what this discussion boils down too, is getting a realistic view on where you stand and what you're potential is.

    It's easy to get this wrong, and this goes in both ways, both overestimating and both underestimating yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  10. i used to care about getting (hot) girls but after my stroke at 27 years old and being in a wheelchair for several weeks i realized it doesnt matter health/independence is number 1 priority.i just want to be non-paretic hemiplegic and get my dominant hand back and lose the foot drop. being dependent on others sucks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feel sorry for you, man!

      That's really tough! I'm now in my late twenties and I can't even begin to imagine how my world would be shaken by something that massive like a stroke.

      It's funny and tragic how the human psychye works.

      I propably finally overcame a long lasting illness this week and I'm already worrying about and getting angry because off some trivial, irrelavant bullshit instead of enyoing my regained health.

      Thinking of the way I used (and to a degree still use to do) to drive myself near a nerveous breakdown because of my (percived) lack of oppertunities/chances to get some peace of ass and thereby ruining also my physical health, makes me shake my head.

      Wish you all the best and success in achving your goals!

      Brent

      Delete
    2. gl with your life im jealous. the only good thing that happened i met some cool people in rehab, but really sad that all my dreams of the future are now seemingly unattainable. even doing fitness is now almost impossible for me. I wish there was a pill that fixed dead brain. and im scared because theres still a very small chance that its not just an 1 in a million arterial dissection, but may be moya moya disease as im asian. hello super rare disease at 27 years old.. i thought strokes only happened to old people. I wish I spent my healthy years 18-27 more productively.

      Delete
  11. Alex, I don't know where I rank myself in sexual, physically attractiveness. Ive gotten negative feedback on how I look. Some girls say I look like a kid, some say cute, I get weird comments like he's beautiful.

    But then there's people ( girls, guys, old people, etc) who say I look ugly, that I have a feminine gay face lol.. even though I'm not. Some girls are attracted though, cute girls and ok girls from all ages. My social skills aren't good, but have gotten a lot better in the past 6 weeks at work and talking to strangers. So my problems lie in being fun and cool. And im on my way to being that guy.

    I have no where else to ask, but online. I got solid advice from girlschase.com and other websites when I asked for help. It just helps, clears up my path to being a player, but a realistic one. I don't want to to be delusional anymore, I tried picking up a girl who was out of my league, and I got hurt so bad lol. She was exactly at the .01 in hot, but she was old, 30s. She used me fur her ego, to feel attractive again lol. This I understood by reading this website and many others and cross referencing her behavior. This stung

    I bought into PUA and looks don't matter in 2012, when I was 20. I wasnt socially experienced enough to see through this marketing bullshit, though. And I recently started to come out of my parents basement, after dropping out of high school in 2010. I was there forp 3 years, no friends nothing. But I wanted to believe haha, like every other guy out there.

    Now im just focusing on being social, and everyone i know says im changing a lot. I got better quick only because I applied so much.

    And Geert its hard to know for me. I'll give myself a 5, due to feedback from people. Oh well, life isnt fair, and honestly im fdone giving a shit. I dont seek validation from people or girls anymore. And if I can get muscle I can get those 7-8s in the near future.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alex, I don't know where I rank myself in sexual, physically attractiveness. Ive gotten negative feedback on how I look. Some girls say I look like a kid, some say cute, I get weird comments like he's beautiful.

      That's the variation part. For some girls you're a 5, to some you're a 7. This is why this stuff is a numbers game. Go interview some girls about the celebs deemed "hottest guys on the planet, you'll be surprised. One girl's "10" is another girl's 7.

      I'm getting the sense that you take each girl's attraction to you as if it determined your looks to every other girl on the planet (I might be completely projecting, forgive me).

      Just go out and try to meet a lot of women, you'll be surprised. One day a 5 will be disgusted by you, the next day you'll meet a 7 who thinks you're the cutest guy ever.

      .... What I'm trying to say is, you can only ascertain your "league" through a bunch of experience and see what you can get when you AVERAGE your experiences with a lot of women. Don't be fooled by a small sample size.

      - If a 7 crushes on you one day it doesn't mean that you're a "7 magnet", you might just be her type for some reason.

      - If a 4 rejects you, it doesn't mean you are a "2".

      - Get a lot of experience, and then you'll see where you stand.

      - Getting an athletic physique will increase you rank by 1-2 points (unless you're already somewhat athletic)

      Delete
    2. Thank you very much again for taking the time to clarify stuff, Alek!

      Very, very helpful!

      But I don't know about the last point. I always thought getting an athletic physique would have a larger impact, like 3-4 points on this 1 -10 looks scale (relative to your position with an average physique).

      Was I really so way off by asuming that?

      So you're physical attractiveness (fashion and groomming aside) is pretty much limited and determined by your facial structure/symetry and the proportions* of your muscles/bones/whathaveyou (things outside of your control basically)?

      (*In a way those factors are limiting how athletic you will look, once you build up muscles, don't they?
      This might be (part of) why the diffrence is really only 1-2 points(?) )

      Or am I misunderstanding you there? I really don't want to steal your time and/or put words in your mouth, I'm really just intrested in your opinion on the matter, because I think it is based on facts, loads of expirence, knowleadge and the critical and logical mind of yours.

      Apart from you guys of the "sleazysphere" I really don't know anyone who I deem fit to answer these questions.

      Brent



      Delete
    3. I scrolled up and found this statemaent of yours:

      "Fortunately this isn't so defeatist or bad as your physique goes into your overall looks. If you're a 5 naturally (face, body symmetry etc), getting a great physique can make you a 7... So even a "natural 5" can become attractive enough to date 10s."

      This pretty much answeres my question: "face, body symmetry etc"

      And going from a natural 5 to a 6 or 7 by getting an athletic shape sounds indeed more realistic than going from a natural 5 to an 8 or 9. So everthing seems clear to me now.

      The answer was already there, I only had to scroll up. Mea culpa! ;)

      Sorry to have disturbed you, Alek!

      Brent



      Delete
    4. @Brent

      Brent: But I don't know about the last point. I always thought getting an athletic physique would have a larger impact, like 3-4 points on this 1 -10 looks scale (relative to your position with an average physique).

      Was I really so way off by assuming that?


      Honestly I'm guesstimating off my head, i'm not using a calculator when I write this stuff. I'm just guesstimating having read about a dozen papers on this, it's not precise math. And honestly, I say 2 points (from average to jacked) precisely because I'm afraid of overstating it.

      Btw, scientists can't agree on this. Take 12 studies, they find 12 different results. Some find a bigger effect, some find a smaller effect. And they use different methodologies and different ways of defining the male physique... so... it's not precise...

      I just say:

      - 2 points for average to jacked
      - 3 points for obese to jacked

      Because I'm trying to keep it moderate and prevent "overstating it". This way I know I'm not saying anything unrealistic. It might actually be more...

      And yes, that's what it means about "natural 5 to 7"

      If you're of average shape, and a 5 "naturally"... because you have an average face, average symmetry, complexion etc... Getting a jacked body will make you a 7.

      It's the same for us guys as it is for girls if you think about it.

      - There are girls we see as a 7 because she has a 7 face and average body
      - There are girls we see as a 7 because she has an average face and BANGING body

      Delete
    5. An attractive male body isn't just muscle, its symmetry and height.

      So someone who is a 5 body-wise because of very average body symmetry and height won't become a 7 by getting jacked. Maybe a 5.5 or 6.

      While its true women have a strong preference for low body fat, in my experience muscularity doesn't really matter past a certain very modest point. As long as your thin and mildly muscled, you enter the realm of diminishing returns. Women just don't care that much. Big muscles are more to impress other men.

      Studies relating muscularity to sex counts are hard to interpret, as are all such studies, which is why they of such limited usefulness despite their baffling popularity. Guys who are interested in pumping iron might simply be more the types to be interested in going clubbing and getting laid. Anecdotally, we all know this is true. Such a correlation does not allow us to draw any conclusions about female preferences



      Delete
    6. Roger. I'm actually academically trained. That's my actual "formal" education. What are your qualifications to interpreting research? Just curious?

      Roger: in my experience muscularity doesn't really matter past a certain very modest point. As long as your thin and mildly muscled, you enter the realm of diminishing returns. Women just don't care that much. Big muscles are more to impress other men.

      Your experience is worth shit as was proven when you got pummeled originally for your virgin fantasy claims where everyone on here immediately understood you don't actually have any experience in the real world.

      And actually the research says the diminishing returns are about the level of maximum muscle. In other words, if you can achieve it naturally, it's not past diminishing returns.

      It's only when you get to using steroids that it becomes "for impressing men" and "has no further effect on women". In fact if you add more muscle than your natural capacity (where you have to use steroids) that it starts becoming unattractive.

      Studies relating muscularity to sex counts are hard to interpret, as are all such studies, which is why they of such limited usefulness despite their baffling popularity.

      Which is why I didn't focus on those studies (precisely because you can't untangle correlations).

      My focus is on the studies that show how much muscle makes you how attractive to women. - there are no faulty correlations there, the data is very clear. Your maximum natural muscle with a small waist = far more attractive to women sexually.

      Roger: So someone who is a 5 body-wise because of very average body symmetry and height won't become a 7 by getting jacked. Maybe a 5.5 or 6.

      So someone who is out of shape and has a potbelly, and then gets jacked, 17 inch biceps, sixpack... Will see no benefits (0,5 points is no benefit). You do realize how absurd you're getting. Like I understand you're trying to be contrarian to everything, but you realize you just wrote something that nobody on the planet would agree with.

      You with a potbelly and no muscle = Jacked you with a sixpack (no difference).

      By now every fucking reader on this website gets it. You're just trolling and being a contrarian. If I had posted the sky is blue you'd come to argue that it's not really blue.

      Delete
    7. Alek, you're thinking too much.

      Delete
    8. Can you link me to studies showing not just that more muscular men have more sex partners, which means nothing, but that show that women actually find more muscle attractive?

      Because all I have ever seen are studies showing more muscular men have more sex partners. If you think about it, you would realize it would very hard to make a study showing women's revealed preferences (rather than expressed preferences) while controlling for the dozens of factors that would muddy the waters, and that took into account women from all socioeconomic backgrounds.

      That's why most studies merely track the sex counts of muscular men, which tells us little.

      I would like to read up on the design and conclusions of such studies. For instance, how did they select their women? Did they make sure to select educated women? I

      Did it rely on questionnaires, notoriously unreliable (which raises the issue of revealed preference vs expressed preference, a SERIOUS issue. Women can say whatever they want but act differently), or was it some kind of field tracking method (the only valid way) which off the top of my head seems impossible to design effectively much less carry out?

      Finally, I said diminishing returns, not zero returns. A guy at 100% of his muscularity might be 2% more attractive than a guy at 60%. He's still more attractive, but it hardly matters.

      How would a study control for this, questionnaires? Revealed preference not expressed.

      The whole things extremely unlikely.

      I think we both know no such studies exist. If you had links, you would have gave them.

      Delete
    9. You haven't answered the question your ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS YET

      Interpreting research if you are not trained in it, is like reading a book in german but not speaking german.

      You suffer from the worst fucking Dunning Kruger I have seen in my life. You actually believe you are an expert on things you have no training in, no massive experience or results in, just randomly having read a few articles here and there.

      I have massive formal training in research of this nature, yet I speak in reserved tone and interpret things in the most modest interpretation I can. Which is why I gave the most modest numbers.

      Troll Admits He is Clueless: Because all I have ever seen are studies showing more muscular men have more sex partners

      DUDE YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE STUDIES EXIST, HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM and even thought "most studies are about number of partners", because that's all you had RANDOMLY seen mentioned on whatever pua forum you hung out at. (for the record, there's far more studies on attractivness than "number of partners", which you'd know if you weren't a total fake).

      So why are you acting like a fucking authority if you didn't even know this? Btw, how can you even access these studies if you're not part of a university that gives you access to them? Are you one of these idiots who thinks you can get papers like you get free porn images?

      Troll tries to use big words and sound all scientimific Did it rely on questionnaires, notoriously unreliable (which raises the issue of revealed preference vs expressed preference, a SERIOUS issue. bla bla bla bla

      YO TARD if you actually read my comments instead of skimming them, you would have seen I SAID - I've seen dozens of studies using DOZENS of methodologies. I even remeber reading a meta-study (comparing methods and averaging results).

      Never seen a single study that could be interpreted as "a pot bellied chubby you is just 5% less attractive than a jacked you with a sixpack" NOT EVEN CLOSE, NOT WITH ANY METHODOLOGY OR RATIO OR FORMULA OR METHOD EVER USED

      YOUR ABSURD CLAIM THAT IF YOU ARE A FUCKING CHUBBY SLOB WITH A POTBELLY, THEN GET JACKED AND RIPPED WILL ONLY PRODUCE a 0.5 point increase in attractivness DOESN'T COME CLOSE TO ANY METHOD, ANY THOUGHT PROCESS OR ANY SANE WAY OF VIEWING THIS TOPIC.

      (comment below includes some studies...)

      Delete
    10. Troll Commits Suicide:I think we both know no such studies exist. If you had links, you would have gave them.

      Yes, because if a 50 year old physics professor is arguing with a 5 year old to brush his teeth, he will pull out citations from pubmed and go compile lists of links for the 5 year old.

      (You're the 5 year old in this analogy)

      Here are some non-existing studies. I am completely making them up and hacked universities and publishers websites to plant them, just so I could descredit a virgin puahate troll online

      - Why Is Muscularity Sexy - Tests of the Fitness Indicator Hypothesis, David A. Frederick and Martie G. Haselton
      (If I remember correctly, this particular study finds that jacked men are 400% more sexually attractive to women than chubby guys)

      - Sex-Typical Body Shape, Quality Indicators And Behaviours, Kyungok Sim

      - Female waist-to-hip and male waist-to-shoulder ratios as determinants of romantic partner desirability

      - The Value Of Physical Attractiveness in Romantic Partners - Modeling Biological and Social Variables

      - Physical attractivness and body as indicators of physical fitness in men

      - Male physical attractiveness in Britain and Malaysia - A cross-cultural study
      (This one concludes that WCR is the BIGGEST factor in variation of MALE PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVNESS)

      (WCR is one popular measure used to determine muscular development vs leanness by creating a formula (ratio) between chest development and waist. There are other formulas like shoulder-to-waist etc...)

      - (similar) Male physical attractiveness in Britain and Greece: a cross-cultural study.

      - (similar) Visual perception of male body attractiveness.



      - Contributions of the face and body to overall attractiveness
      (this one explores how much symmetry, faces, physique all factor into the OVERALL attractiveness rating)

      - (Similar study) The relative importance of the face and body in judgments of human physical attractiveness


      THESE ARE ONLY A FRACTION OF THE STUDIES out there

      Just what I pulled up in a 15 minute eye-scan of my disorganized hard-drive where I keep THOUSANDS of papers. I've probably seen double or triple the amount of papers on this subject. I originally researched this topic a few years ago. There's far more different studies on this same subject with different methodologies.

      Suffice it to say, all studies show a significant benefit to losing that fucking potbelly and getting jacked, however you slice it.

      The best ones are those that are based on "chest-to-waist" ratios and "shoulder-to-waist" ratios vs attractivness. (there was a meta-study comparing which ways of measuring muscular development were most valid, and they did pretty well)

      There are many studies also exploring different types of mating vs. importance of physique or looks

      I already spent 15 minutes compiling the above, I won't go into any more unpaid work here, you'll just have to trust me. But there are also plenty of studies showing that in casual sex physiques are a bigger factor than usual. (in studies casual sex is called "short-term mating" btw).

      And with this I am going to bow out of here guys

      My sick leave is over tonight, I'll be back in a couple of months to review Aaron Sleazy's new book (which I'very excited over and keep checking the mailbox for).

      Delete
  12. Our favorite feminist troll went on ANOTHER blog, to comment on the discussion we're having here in this comment thread. I don't know why, it must be the drugs... I'll answer the troll here:

    It will be useful to further clarify what I said, in case someone misreads it in similar ways. Our troll is a token example of how to misread things

    RogerTroll: According to alek, any guy can be a 7 by getting into shape, and a male 7 can get up to 3 points above him. According to alek, any guy can get a 10!

    What I actually said (proof is up for anyone who can be bothered to scroll)... Is that

    - "You can get girls that are AT BEST (at most) 3 points higher than you"

    - I made it super clear that this is "the realistic limits"*, not the typical, in fact, I SPELLED out its most likely when you're just 1-2 points away from her. Most of this comes from the fact that tastes and preferences vary. One girl's 5 is another girl's 7.

    - So it means its POSSIBLE to go 3 points above (not likely, or easy, or an everyday occurrence). It just means that if you're a 7 and if you are stubborn and willing to approach enough 10s (which takes time to even find as they're fucking rare)... you'll eventually find one who'll hook up with you

    - Obviously it will take a lot more effort than getting an 8.

    - It's a good experiment for another reason I mentioned, just to see how fucking unspecial it is. Her tongue will not feel better in your mouth than the tongue of a cute 8, neither will your penis feel better in her pussy than the pussy of an 8.

    **(When I say realistic limits, it means the percentage of women is some sane number. You won't have to approach like 10,000 women to find one. Btw, if you want to allow for unlimited numbers-game and crazy ratios, given enough persistance, you can find women with the weirdest fetishes. A tiny percent of cute skinny girls have an obese guy fetish, or a big nose fetish or a short guy fetish or what not.)

    RogerTroll: According to alek, any guy can be a 7 by getting into shape

    Strawman jack strikes again. I didn't say "any man". But our favorite troll sucks at math. If a guy is a 1 and its due to ugliness (not obesity), he'll end up at best a 3 by getting jacked, not a 7.

    My example refereed to a guy who's 4, and i was hoping it was was implied I was talking if his attractiveness comes mostly from being out of shape. (he's a 4 because he's fat)

    So yes, going from obese to jacked WILL raise your looks by 3 points. Not ONLY will every sane person reading this agree (it's common sense). It's also a scientific fact. There are literally dozens of papers studying male attractiveness vs muscularity and ratios (muscle to fat ratios). There are even studies on amount of casual sex vs muscularity.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To Alek Novy:

      Instead of ruminating all these things, learn conversational hypnosis and then you'll be able to elicit the physiological process a woman uses for being attracted to a guy and link it to you. It works.

      Delete
    2. Nobody is interested in that kind of nonsense. Ross Jeffries is even less grounded in reality than those who succeeded him like Mystery and Style.

      Delete
    3. Or if you don't have time learning conversational hypnosis just buy our app which will emit sexually stimulating subliminal messages from your iPhone right into the hear of SHB10 across you.

      Delete
    4. @sleazy: "Nobody is interested in that kind of nonsense. Ross Jeffries is even less grounded in reality than those who succeeded him like Mystery and Style."

      Why do you talk mystery, strauss or ross jeffries? What's the relationship between what I wrote and these guys? Sleazy, it's as if, because of your belief in "natural seduction", I would assimilate you to sociopaths like Julien Blanc.

      Here, guys, you're mentally masturbating on the fact that either a woman is attracted to you or she's not. I'm telling you that the reality IS NOT that black or white and that you can elicit her process for being attracted to you. When you've got a good level of rapport, this elicitation can really boost the interaction. This is a method used by hypnotherapists with great success when they want to elicit confidence, being focused, ...

      @anonymous: "Or if you don't have time learning conversational hypnosis just buy our app which will emit sexually stimulating subliminal messages from your iPhone right into the hear of SHB10 across you."

      Of course, when you've got no clue on how something works it's easier to mock than to be curious or open about it.

      Delete
    5. Bullshit.

      You can elicit whatever you want, if the girl is attracted to you you'll go home with your dick in your hand.

      It's like those PUA's that believe that you can use psychological tactics to get a woman to sleep with you. It's a biological thing, she won't do it if she's not attracted to you. Like if you could elicit the 'suicide process' of someone and expect that his survival instinct won't kick in lol.

      Btw if you look up pictures of big names in NLP and conversational hypnosis it's pretty clear how effective their method is to elicit their weight loss process.

      On this blog we're discussing subjects grounded in reality, not in the imaginary self-help world of some random shill. Just to make sure we're on the same page.

      Delete
    6. "Why do you talk mystery, strauss or ross jeffries? What's the relationship between what I wrote and these guys?"
      This is probably useless but lets give it a try...

      You failed to differentiate yourself from Ross Jeffries and other bullshiters. So if you wish to gain some credibility then answer what is the critical difference between your method and his method?

      If there are effective alternatives to Jeffriess NLP psychobabble then why hasn't he adopted them to sell legit products instead of fading away into garbage dump of pickup history?

      Delete
    7. "You failed to differentiate yourself from Ross Jeffries and other bullshiters" Why do you link me to these guys?

      Hypnosis is something powerful and recognized as being extremely useful in terms of helping people. Now, certain surgical intervention are done under hypnosis without chemical anesthetic.

      Unfortunately, hypnosis seems to also attract weirdos and creeps. But wait a minute... isn't that similar to "natural seduction"? Take Julien Blanc, a sociopath creeping out girls and banned from UK, Australia, Brazil, Singapor, Japan, ...

      Therefore, are you a creep like Julien Blanc or a guy genuinely interested in women and their well being?

      Delete
    8. So what is the difference between methods that good hypnotists like you use and the ones that weirdos/creeps like PUAs use?

      Delete
  13. Alek Novy I like your comments, do you have a blog of your own? I searched but can't find anything of your that's been updated recently.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I haven't blogged in years, and I only make about 4-5 comments a year nowadays as my lifestyle is pretty hectic.

      The reason I'm here now is because I've been sick, and mostly bedridden for a month.

      I'm almost back to health, so I probably will be gone by tommorow. I'm probably posting my last comments as we speak.

      Delete
    2. In this case I would like to take the opportuntiy to thank you for answering my question, Alek!

      I can't help, but to agree with you yet again ;)

      Farewell and take care!

      Brent

      Delete
    3. "I'm probably posting my last comments as we speak."

      Well that's a shame. Thanks anyway though.

      Delete
    4. Get well soon Alek.
      On the side I hope you find the time to blog a bit more, but projects should always be a man's priority. You and Aaron are among the few commentators in any remotely "male" centered blogsspheres that I remotely still read (and perhaps that blackpill guy, and the Indian fellow 'advocatus diaboli' guy..)

      Delete
  14. Women and men definitely don't have same mind; in fact, they don't have same brain, too. As they haven't the same skeleton, hormones, genitals, skin, gamete dimension. This is basic biology.
    A post saying that women and men have the same mind is nothing to be trusted. Overly if it supposes to teach something about women and relations.

    Aaron, your novel Einstein learnt something from PUA. Marketing. "There is a girl laying in my bed right now naked as I am typing this in fact". Lol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let's split hairs: no two people ever have the exactly same brain or mind. Does this mean you can't make any kind of generalizations about people.

      Sleazy's "novel Einstein", what? How on earth is anybody going to take you seriously if you can't even communicate properly.

      Delete
  15. Dude, work on your grammar and spelling. Your post is night incomprehensible. On that note, one of my first-year professors scared quite a few people away by making the statement that if you can't express yourself clearly, then that's a strong indication that you can't think clearly. It's the same with your post. Here's a hint: dogs and cats don't have the same brain either, yet they both like to eat, don't they? Likewise, even though there are some differences between men and women, this doesn't mean that you can just pick some random aspect of human behavior and declare that men and women are different in this regard, particularly if it contradicts everyday observations. You really don't believe that women go gaga over hot guys? Then maybe you should leave your house every once in a while. The game you imagine you're going to play is over before you open your mouth if she isn't sexually attracted to you and you don't seem to have any resources to share. Gamers, for some reason, believe that they can get hot girls even if they're ugly and poor. So, buddy, give me some examples. In close to ten years I haven't seen a single one, but go ahead and prove me wrong. Prove to me that there is some substance to your "game"!

    ReplyDelete
  16. @ Alek Novy,

    “So to get a 10, its possible at most if you're a 7, though most likely if you're an 8 or a 9.”

    I not only disagree that this is necessarily the case, but also with the tacit implication that these ‘leagues’ are symmetrical (as evidence in studies: http://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/female-mating-skew-ii-supported-by-online-dating-experiment/ and http://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/female-mating-skew/

    You're appealing to assortative mating and saying most men can easily get a homologue female partner, or even or slightly better than himself partner (favorable disassortative mating). But mating skew and reproductive variance is greater in males than in females. This is ultimately a consequent of anisogamy.

    Female sexual choices will always tend towards small male breeding populations. In more colloquial terms, what this means is that male/female ‘leagues’ are asymmetrical – with male ‘rank’ being bottom heavy in distribution, while female ‘rank’ being top heavy.

    If we take the (justified) assumption that guys are more inclusive in their mating choices, and consider a higher male optimal mating rate, we also come to an inescapable conclusion: that not only should the most attractive males mate with the most attractive females(duh), but also a significant proportion of average females as well(given the higher male mating rate).

    Which, of course, renders less available ‘average’ females to be mated with average guys – necessitating an imbalance that progresses down the attractiveness scale(rendering a sexually asymmetric mating dynamic).

    This is why it is so easy to observe in speed dating/online dating (and I'd say that most outcomes in male courtship within others mating leks (i.e. nightclubs) is not very different) that even relatively unattractive females are still much more successful than unattractive males at disassortative mating (i.e. such as with 5 women being able to commonly mate with 7 men, etc).

    ReplyDelete
  17. " If you're a 5 naturally (face, body symmetry etc), getting a great physique can make you a 7... So even a "natural 5" can become attractive enough to date 10s."

    I disagree again. My argument, however, is one of facial attractiveness being the dominant limiting factor in mate choice, and more pronounced in female choice. In both sexes, have been found that faces are more important than bodies in determining the attractive overall, scores for facial beauty are a better predictor of the overall rating than scores for bodily attractiveness.

    Facial attractiveness is more important than bodily attractiveness in human mate choice decisions. I'm a 5 in facial rating and 7/8 in body attractiveness (athletic and muscular body, wrought through years of gym). I've tried get at least on attractive girl throughout my life and always gotten dismal results. My experience within bar /nightclubs scene is that when I was looking for women, I simply couldn’t attract chicks over 6 in attractiveness, despite repeated attempts. (My odds of getting into NASSA are better). True that a few times I have been doing well with some attractive woman (I recall I knew 5 cute girls who were initially receptive, they were about 7/ 8 in looks). I’d just met only to have it fizzle out. I started flirting back and forth, even I kissed them. But after they flaked on me that same night or the next day with no warning.

    By the other, one ONE attractive girl (she was 8.5 or 9) eventually agreed to meet-up with me in 3 dates. I was excited to begin a relation with her. But finally she rejected me.

    By the other hand, I've been on online dating for months. I easily sent several hundred messages, and got a whopping <5% response rate. Moreover, with no responses from average or attractive women. I only received a few replies from overweight or facially unattractive women.

    I see conventionally muscled men (with average joe face) within my social circle, mating uglies and overweight women, frequently Of course, cases of the reverse dynamic are vanishingly rare (wherein lies the basis for many a male grievance).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi there Roger :)

      I wish I had the time to pummel you through the ground until you leave in utter embarrassment like the other Roger, unfortunately I don't... I apologize.

      It's not just because I have a life, but also because of the typical feminist/puahate shillism and intellectual dishonesty displayed here. It is obvious this will take 50 comments where you strawman what I say, and engage in a lot of goal shifting etc etc...

      Some examples of your shill trollism

      1) THE STRAWMAN: I didn't say "you can easily get y girls if you do x"... Either you have NO READING COMPREHENSION, or you are the typical feminist/puahate shill...

      Listen bro, the only guys on planet earth that can "easily get girls" are rockstars and hollywood celebs, and those girls are called groups.

      What I DID SAY (if you had any reading comprehension skills was) "if you do x, you can easily get in the same LEAGUE as 7s"... I.E don't be a lazy slob that blames his average FACE on everything...

      GETTING GIRLS IS NOT EASY, EVEN WHEN THEY LIKE YOU. Even if you approach 10 girls who find you attractive/cute, you might only get 1. Notice, I said "find you attractive". I didn't say "you're their dream guy and they have a crush on you"

      Hint: Aaron's latest book has great tips on fashion (for non lazy bums who don't blame everything on not having a male model face), and the gym is pretty easy, stop eating junk, go lift more each time you're in the gym.


      2) THE WANNABE ACADEMIC: I don't discuss research and papers with people who have no formal academic training.

      The last RogerTroll I completely embarrassed by quoting 20 papers that he said didn't exist, he simply disappeared after it. He didn't say "oh shit I was totally bluffing and pretending to know the scientimific research"

      I don't have time to respond to the bullshit on here (a lot of it is strawmanning as well), you literally say things I've never said, then use fancy scientimific sounding words you don't even understand (Roissy built a cult of ignoramuses by doing this).

      3) Lack of real world experience: DID YOU HONESTLY QUOTE JUST ONE EXAMPLE to make a point? This is how we know you lack real world experience to be worthy responding to even.

      I don't care about anecdotes from inexperinced trolls... I could take apart each of your fallacies and anecdotes, but I won't. I'll give you some advice to help you lose your virginity instead.

      Unless you hit on a 1000 girls* of type-x and ask them out, you can not make generalizations about whether x-type girls would go on a date with a guy like you.

      (It also helps if you handle the basics as recommended by Aaron in Minimal Game and hist Latest book)

      Unless you make a move on a 300* y-type girls and all 300* reject your move with disgust, don't fucking come in here quoting super-complex rationalizations (puahate theories) about why a guy like you can't get y-type girls and you are restricted to plain janes no matter what you do, so be lazy slob anyway.

      P.S - this is how I devirginized some male friends. I gave them the "closure challenge'. This were guys who whined how they were not the type of guys who can get girls.

      I just made them a challenge. PROVE YOUR THEORY RIGHT. Go and ask a 1000* cute girls out, and get rejected a 1000* times. I FUCKING DARE YOU. I gave this challenge to several virgins who'd spent YEARS regurgitating PUAHATE-type theories of doom. All of them now have regular sex-lives. Or make a move on 300 girls, and prove to me that all 300 react with disgust and don't reciprocate on the move.

      Delete
    2. *-> It won't actually take asking 1000 girls on a date. It's just how I structure the challenge for guys like these. Once they get past the initial screwing up due to being super-akward and off-putting, they find they end up getting dates left and right.

      It's just that I have to structure it as "go ask a 1000 to prove to me that it's IMPOSSIBLE" "once you've proven it's impossible, you can give up on these types of girls for life, until then stop whining, and shut the fuck up"

      Also

      The reason your "well-built friends" don't get cute chicks is the same reason you don't. They blame their "not male model face", wait for a girl to throw herself at them, have an inability to read subtle signals or balls to make a move...

      Some of them are even spoiled/deluded, thinking that just because they built up a better body, girls will jump on them.

      You still have to do the work. Being in the league of 5s vs being in the league of 7s, only shifts your ratios, it doesn't mean girls will throw themselves at you.

      If you hit on girls way out of your league (you're a 5 and she's a 9), you might have to pursue something like 100 or 200 girls who are nines before one caves in.

      If you're a 7 and you go hitting on 7s and 8s (easily in your league), you still have to hit on 10-15 of these sevens to lay one (if you're discriminate in whom you choose to hit on)... or you might to hit on 30-40 if you're indiscriminate and just have a shot-gun approach in whom you choose to hit-on...

      Delete
    3. Oh and you REALLY need to check out Aaron's latest book "The no-nonsense guide"

      I see conventionally muscled men (with average joe face) within my social circle, mating uglies and overweight women, frequently

      Go to page 21 of the book, Aaron gives an "university application" analogy that is perfect for you to understand this issue.

      Women who are in your league play games and act hard-to-get EVEN when interested. They force this russian roullete dynamic "I'm interested, but you have to take a risk, I'm not going to give you a 100% unmistakable signal". Which means you often have to guess wrong and end up getting rejected a lot, making moves on the wrong women.

      See Also: Dungone's Tiger Analogy

      Women who are severely below your league throw themselves at you when interested quite bluntly. Which is why guys into risk aversion often settle for warpigs. They're the safe option.

      Side Note: This is why uggo feminist girls promote the notion men you should only make a move on, and only date women who throw themselves at you blatantly, and claim that subtle signals do not exist.

      Of course, cases of the reverse dynamic are vanishingly rare (wherein lies the basis for many a male grievance).

      It is a confirmation bias. If you talk to women, you'll find women who say that they're disgusted seeing all these uggo guys dating super-cute girls. And how life is oh so hard for girls, because as a girl you have to be cute, but if you're a guy you can be an ugly fat slob and date hotties.

      By the other hand, I've been on online dating for months. I easily sent several hundred messages, and got a whopping <5% response rate. Moreover, with no responses from average or attractive women. I only received a few replies from overweight or facially unattractive women.

      Online Dating is heavily distorted because it triggers a "shopping" mindset. People, especially women get in this mode where they're shopping for a "dream match". Especially made worse by the 10000s of ball-less eunuchs like yourself who can't make a move in real life so they bombard plain janes online.

      - In the real life physical world, women most often go for "good enough".

      - Grow some fucking balls, stop wasting hours blogging about how you're doomed to warpigs, leave the house, go hit on on a 100 cute women in the real world.

      ALSO
      - Don't tell me about the ONE FUCKING DATE you had with a cutie in real life
      - And the "hundreds" of messages you sent online.

      1) GET the book
      2) Go out and apply it a 1000 times ON REAL LIFE WOMEN

      Until then shut the fuck up.

      Delete
    4. Another golden post. I love your writing because you have both lot of real world experience and academic knowledge to put that experience in wider context so it can be more easily understood by others.

      Irony of PUA coaching and lifestyle coaching in general is that people who have lot of wisdom to share are actually busy applying it in real life and don't have much exposure on the internet while charlatans are those who market themselves most aggressively and thus dominate the market.

      In any case all of your comments on this blog have been really helpful and illuminating. Since there isn't a way to financially compensate you for your contributions only thing left is to say: Thank you!

      Delete
  18. "If you're a 7 and you go hitting on 7s and 8s (easily in your league), you still have to hit on 10-15 of these sevens to lay one (if you're discriminate in whom you choose to hit on)... or you might to hit on 30-40 if you're indiscriminate and just have a shot-gun approach in whom you choose to hit-on..."

    Getting laid is hard (lots of investment, few reward). In the end I don't even enjoy the sex, I just enjoy the +1 on my laycount.

    Sometimes I even wonder why I do it.

    Plus if you do daygame, add the unreliability of phone numbers. Paul Janka says he fucks 10% of his phone numbers (1 out of 10), but for me it's more 1 out of 15-20 (i.e 5 - 7% of the phone numbers).

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous:
    Getting laid is hard (lots of investment, few reward). In the end I don't even enjoy the sex, I just enjoy the +1 on my laycount.

    Sometimes I even wonder why I do it.


    Likewise bro. In most lays, 5 minutes after it I'm like "why did I even bother? think of the business improvements I could have made with the same effort".

    This is where the next level comes in (Aaron mentions it a lot)

    Guys who are at a really experienced, higher level, to them it's not as much effort. I have friends and acquintances who are like this.

    For them it's not effort because they:

    a) (like aaron suggests) only do things they enjoy... so even if they don't get laid going to a club/party, they had a blast just by being there

    b) they are very discriminate on which chicks they invest effort in...

    With these guys, if he invests effort, at the very least he's getting some grinding action or a makeout and lots of approval. There are never interactions that go nowhere. And they have very firm boundaries to know when to cut off effort investment and only go for great deals...

    They can recognize the great deals due to having lots of experience.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, maybe some gullible guys are going to buy your nonsense argument, but it won't be my case. It seems you think that your smug arrogance is suggestive.

      Your argument’s basis is speculative, rather than following from sample data. I know that dataset obtained from online dating & speed dating are not rigorously extrapolable in all frames of mating ( field studies), but you're relying upon theoretical personal assumptions which are equivocal in their findings, and untested.

      My suspicion can be reasonably inferred from data/investigation that agrees in most frames of observation. And what's really your point, beyond disqualify and try to discredit me by using disparaging comments? Unverifyable anecdotes from people who are psychologically/emotionally/financially invested in self-help books to begin with? Sorry, but that’s not very compelling.

      Your beliefs are hardly meaningful or reliable. Your cherry-picking anecdotes are not an authority on anything, beyond the extant to which a fool’s errand can take.

      What is the difference between this stuff of self-help books for picking up girls from classical books & seminaries about Game and PUAs?

      I respect the lucrative business. But does that book use/look meta-analyses or studies (with very large samples), sufficiently ecologically valid studies to evaluate these predictions?.

      Delete
    2. - You're right, there's absolutely no difference between PUAs and people on this community. We're all just PUAs in denial, got us there

      THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN BETWEEN THE EXTREMES!!!

      You are either:

      A) a PUA who overcomplicates shit and teaches you need to do 550 different contradictory things to "attract cuties"

      or

      B) you just decide that unless you're a male model you have to give up and resort to warpigs who throw themselves at you blatantly

      THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY FOR ANY OTHER OPTION BETWEEN THESE TWO. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!

      - And yes, you're right that Aaron has a "lucrative business". Selling a few cheap books a month (i'm guessing), completely renumerates him for the 5000 posts he's written debunking PUA and helping guys leave pua bullshit.

      Even though he FUCKING LIVES in fucking germany where a fucking janitor makes more money in a day then months of selling books. You're totally right, he's totally doing this for the money. You win.

      ScientimificTroll: But does that book use/look meta-analyses or studies (with very large samples), sufficiently ecologically valid studies to evaluate these predictions?

      What predictions? The prediction that if you fucking ask enough girls out, a certain percentage will say yes?

      DUDE GROW SOME BALLS AND GO ASK A 100 GIRLS OUT, YOU DON'T NEED A FUCKING "META STUDY" TO PROVE TO YOURSELF WHETHER ITS POSSIBLE THAT SOME cuties WILL SAY YES.

      We've spent YEARS saying that there's no scientific proof for the SUPER-DUPER COMPLICATED variables that PUAs teach. YES for the CRAZY multi-layered shit claimed by PUAs, you WOULD need a meta-study to show it's not crazy (i.e. when they say you have do 55 things to make a girl attracted), and all PUAs contradict each other.

      But non-puas (i.e. this community) gives sane, down to earth tips that don't need a 10 million dollar research project to falsify. Things like "if a girl is grinding up against you' there's a reasonable chance you can ask her to come with you"

      YOU NEED A FUCKING STUDY FOR THIS!?!??!

      YOU NEED A META STUDY TO CONFIRM TO YOU THAT "our meta study on 10 "girls grinding on you" studies found that yes, if a girl is grinding against you asking her to come home with you, results in xyz chance of her saying yes".

      ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?!?! Taxpayers will totally love this shit. They'll be so happy you want 10 million dollars spent first so you get the balls to MAKE A MOVE.

      P.S

      You still haven't listed your academic criteria for throwing scientimific words around. I had to actually pass formal training in several "scientific method", and "writing papers" and "doing proper research" subjects and be involved in a few research projects. (hint, I actually know what the words you throw around actually mean)

      P.P.S

      Don't rape "reason" and "science" to make excuses for being a ballless eunuch expert that's been ON ONE DATE with a cutie in his life, and refuses to actually go ask some more and MAKE A FUCKING MOVE.

      And you're fucking to someone who's spent years dismantling the rational fucking impossibility of the LAME multi-variate shit that PUAs promote. But you don't FUCKING NEED A FUCKING meta-study for the SIMPLE single-variable shit given in NON-PUA sane advice on dating. YOU NEED TO FUCKING LEAVE THE HOUSE and try it in 20 chicks. It takes a fucking night if you wish so.

      Go tonight, ask a fucking 30 cuties out, see what the fuck happens you fucking "I need a meta study to give me permission to ask cuties out" retard.

      Delete
  20. I stopped reading at the fat girl example.

    You dont need to be Einstein to understand looks matter much more for women.

    If a girl is very average looking, the fact that she is funny wont get her laid more.
    But a average looking dude who is really funny WILL get laid more. We all met a few of them in our daily life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You live in a dreamland. Chicks don't fuck you because you make them laugh. Heck, what if your jokes run out? Just like "that one guy" PUA shills claim gets laid due to his amazing personality, those "really funny guys" who get laid because they make chicks laugh don't exist either. I think you're confusing some of your observations. If a woman finds you attractive she tends to giggle or laugh at whatever you say. She laughs because she is attracted to you.

      Delete
    2. My "dreamland" is something everybody here probably experienced. When I was younger I didnt have a lot of success with girls. Actualy none. And remember vividly that both in highschool and college, 2 guys, not very good looking and a bit chubby, were getting all the girls. The both had something in common, extreme confidence and good humor. Also called cocky & funny by the community.

      I know something like that happened to you or your readers too. Wondering how that fugly guy would get all the girls. Well attraction can be made in the first look but also with demonstrating value (confidence).

      The proof of this is I was actually very good looking all my life. But my self worth was so low, I actually had negative game and basically after the first look the girl lost all interest. So in real life its better to have good game and be fugly than be good looking without game. I am the perfect example.

      Delete
    3. Sorry, dude. I've seen a lot in my life, but never a physically unattractive guy (without money) who got all the girls. Cocky/funny is bullshit. May I recommend some pro-PUA sites for you to post on?

      Your example is illogical to the extreme. Yes, it's perfectly possible to be good-looking and fucking up all your chances. However, this does not imply that all you need to get girls is fake that you have some confidence (what would an ugly guy with no money base his confidence on anyway?). Looks and money trump game any time. Besides, dear PUA shill, how come there has never, ever been an example of a guy who got the hottest girls even though he was unattractive and poor. The next thing you're going to say is "looks don't matter", right?

      Delete
    4. You're on the wrong site for that kind of nonsense, Anonymous. Looks + money >>>>> "game". Ever went to a local PUA meeting and wondered why basically all the guys were some combination of ugly, short, poor and had no money?

      Delete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.