Wednesday, November 4, 2015

The Open Thread: November 2015

Since I get a relatively high number of comments that are tangential to the articles, I'd like to try to move those parts of the conversation to the monthly 'Open Thread'.

In short, it you think anything you're going to write is "off topic" to the current post, but still related to pickup, women, gender politics and other topics I discuss on this blog, then please leave a comment to the most recent Open Thread, such like this one. Just post below.

Thank you.

41 comments:

  1. Hey sleazy,

    I'm curious about your take on 'red pill' communities and the ideas that they present specifically. I've read a lot of their theory and i do in fact think that they got some valid points, however, i found that this red pill community has the usual cultish ingredients such as generalizations, fancy terms (NAWALT etc.) and this community also seems to attract a significant amount of losers/delusional kids who are there just to rant. They present certain ideas like women love opportunistically, only date up, alpha/beta dichotomy, women can't be trusted / even the most innocent ones are sluts / never marry in your life etc. They oppose mainstream dating advice, which imo is a good thing. Mainstream dating advice ''Just be yourself, that one true love etc.'' is quite counterproductive. It's hard to separate the legit advice from the BS in communities like this. Any thoughts?

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    1. What does the 'red pill' community really have to offer? The related MGTOW community shows some alternatives, such as "ghosting", living frugally and becoming independent, and generally limit liabilities. Overall, it seems like a relatively mature community, certainly much more mature than anything I've seen in the manuresphere. On the other hand, the "red pill" community just loves to bitch about women. Among MGTOWs you find guys who are deliberately celibate, i.e. guys who have fucked a lot, realized that women are not quite what society tells you, and then withdraw from dating/mating (or just pay escorts for reasons of convenience). Among the red pillers, though, I strongly suspect that many are sexually frustrated men with not a lot of options in life, which explains their fantasies about moving abroad --- they discuss this topic so feverishly because it will never happen to them, not unlike broke guys discuss supercars, or your local bros rank models and porn stars.

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    2. Have you read The Rational Male? He is intellectually way above the rest of the manosphere, I can actually see you and him having interesting exchanges. I did, hehe.

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    3. What do you mean by "you did"?

      The Rational Male is on my radar. I have yet to read the blog, but if I recall correctly, he has released a book some time ago, so maybe I'll buy it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there is nothing of value in that community, it's just that my exposure has been somewhat negative, and I don't really have the time to go through a few dozen blogs. The last manosphere blogger I was told was worth my time was not, though (Anatol Kay, if I recall correctly, the guy who is "gaming his wife").

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    4. You don't need to buy it, the whole content is here: http://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/ if I had to point to point the Red Pill to someone I would direct him to this guy, he is like a scholastic of the RP, lol.

      His last post was interesting too, therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/ are you complementarian with respect to the sexes or are you a blank slater?

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    5. "What do you mean by 'you did'?" oops, I should had put a comma there, I did had a good conversation with him via Skype. About society's take on masculinity and what it wants to make of men.

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  2. This is downright ridiculous,

    http://www.returnofkings.com/73146/will-boycottthenightbefore-and-cuckrogen-lead-to-the-end-of-seth-rogens-career-and-marriage

    Apparently Rogen's career is over due to the manosphere? They are so delusional. It's pretty obvious to ANYONE with half a brain that Rogen's wife sent that tweet as a joke, or Seth sent it from her account as a joke. This is just as ridiculous as when the manosphere vowed to take down Tucker Max for calling Roosh a loser.

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  3. The Sasha Daygame marriage situation is a pretty clear example of how women will put themselves into positions to meet the guys they want. In his case, the girl was the 1st girl ever to sign up and do his bootcamp - clearly a Youtube celeb and fangirl dynamic.

    He explains the story in the last 4 minutes of this video, but it doesn't seem like he wants to want to admit that that's the only reason she was interested in the bootcamp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEy7nbg2Dpk

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    1. What point are you trying to make here? that this girl signed up to bootcamp to try and marry this dude?

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    2. To your 1st question - my point is about women making themselves available to the men they want. This concept is still paid little attention within the PUA world since most of the focus is on cold approaches, getting numbers, texting, getting a date, getting her to your home. Each step is seen as a hurdle rather than a simple process aided by mutual attraction. Within the full speech this video is taken from there is more time spent talking about why you should go up to groups of strangers and scratch your balls and tell them you need to get STD testing, than discussing some real basic notions of attraction.
      To your 2nd question - I believe his bootcamps cost around $1500 for 3 days. I doubt an attractive woman would pay this since any of her non-retarded female friends could tell her at no charge "wear something nice, go to a social event, smile at guys you like, giggle a bit in conversation with them, play with your hair" this method would lead to her being "number closed," "instant dated," "penetrated" by the majority of men she desires and subsequently not require PUA boot camps. Arena rock stars can charge $400 for meet and greet, mini-Q&As and autographs with fans pre-show. I expect this woman saw the boot camp charge as a similar deal.

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    3. Yes defiantly agree some PUA teachings state to be indpendant of a girls reaction and keep pushing regardless of what you may get in return. While i do agree to not base your emotion off a strangers opinion of you I think discernment is a needed skill to not waste time.

      I couldn't watch that shit in full but I was just confused if he actually got married. From what I saw he seemed delusional, but i guess weirder things have happened

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  4. I'm in the middle of reading Scott Adams' (creator of Dilbert) book "How to fail at almost everything and still win big".

    I came across one segment where he discusses his amateur exploration of hypnosis, and how his knowledge of that came across when him and his wife went shopping for a new car:

    "Recently my wife and I went shopping for a new vehicle. We looked at a lot of models online and in person, and non were irresistible. Then we came across a car that was so 'us' I laughed when I saw it. I could almost feel my brain make up its mind before we had done one iota of reasoning, data gathering, or negotiating... the amateur hypnotist in me knows that our visceral reaction to the car was the beginning and the end of the 'thinking' that went into the purchase."

    Would you agree that a lot of game/attraction is like this? i.e. Women see a guy and they more or less immediately decide if they like what they see, and all further game interaction progresses from that point.

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    1. Yes, I do. I've verbalized this years ago already; it's also discussed in Minimal Game.

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  5. Hi Aaron, you seem realistic. It seems the vast majority of advice on these sites, and presumably your book, is catering to 20 to 30 yr olds.

    If you're mid-40s but not rich and wish to avoid sugar daddy sites, can you point to the best advice for men in this category who want to have sex with actually hot (which in effect means significantly younger) women?

    I am trying to separate PUA fantasy from fact here. What is realistically possible?

    And does your book even apply?

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    1. I don't necessarily only cater to 20 to 30 year-olds. Minimal Game is fairly general. That being said, if you are looking for "techniques" and "weird tricks", you better look elsewhere. If you're not well off, then sugar daddy websites would be pointless to begin with.

      Your problem is that you will have to offer something (like every other guy), and actually meeting those women. However, in your mid-40s, you will not be able to get any bonus points for future potential. Realistically, you should be able to get women in their mid to late 20s. This is not a fantasy but based on knowing some guys in their 40s who have achieved a modicum of success, and take care of themselves.

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  6. Hi Aaron

    I was wondering if you had any thoughts social influence from a peer group and how this may affect a girl you are interested in, regarding her reactions to your escalation when she is in a situation where she feels other are judging her. Besides knowing when her reciprocation is completely out of the question, what have you found to be possible? do you think scenarios like these can result in her throwing regard for social pressure out the window if you are exceptional in her eyes?

    I would really be curious to know because recently I have been in situations in which I'm certain girls were flitting back with me but I didn't try and kiss them or take them home because I thought me escalating too far in front of her friends would make all parties invoked feel uncomfortable. Cheers.

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    1. This is extensively covered in Club Game.

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  7. Aaron,

    In your Minimal game book you said that the flourishment of pick-up artist industry in USA and UK and it's lack in Europe is explaned by cultural differences as Anglo-Saxon countries, in your opinion, have very boring and uniform, job-obsessed environment. This is complete reversal from my experience. Does not the "job-obessed mundanity" apply more to Europeans and especially to you people, Germans (No offense)? For example, during my visit to Germany, every women literally looked the same, dressed the same and behaved the same ways. It was downright bizarre. They looked like carbon copies of each other, no originality, always in hurry for their mundane office jobs, had weird annoyed and depressed looks and had nothing going on in their miserable lives. Men were not much better either. In contrast, Americans I have met were outgoing, motivated, smiling, you know, ALIVE and not some dumb work drones. These generalizations maybe exagerrated, but I can still find it hard to accept your "cultural" explanation for the lack of pick-up artists in Europe.

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    1. Which parts of Germany, the US, and UK do you know?

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    2. I have never been in UK, but met a few British guys. US: New York and some other Eastern Coast towns shortly, though I also met reasonable amount of Americans in my life. Germany: Bremen, Hamburg, Munster, Frankfurt. A bunch of other European countries.

      So again, limited experience, but even if my generalizations about Americans are dead wrong, this pretty much only means that they are not different from Europeans. Stepping into Western Europe (not Just Germany) in autumn/winter seemed like a dystopian fiction. Every women seemed like a freaking clone ------ blond/dirt blonde hair, overcoat, jeans and adidas shoes/boots. 99% wore EXACTLY that kind of clothing. I honestly though I was having deja vu over and over. The hairstyles:same. Hobbies:same. Interests(if you can call that):same. Insanely materialistic and boring. Maybe I was simply unlucky and damn I hope I was.

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    3. It's questionable to make a statement about a country without having been there. Also, brief visits only give you a distorted view. Next time, check out Berlin, at the very least, and maybe also drop Cologne and Munich a visit. You should have met some more interesting people in Hamburg and Bremen, though. The problem is that if you are only visiting, and you know nobody who has a deep knowledge of the city, you might end up just going to the most nondescript clubs and bars.

      Also, you seem to draw conclusions from first impressions. Yes, Americans smile a lot, but this is a facade. Similarly, Germans may seem reserved at first. Of course first impressions amount for a lot, but there is more to people than first impressions. Also note that a consequence of the German attitude is that if you talk to a stranger, you avoid any potentially offensive topic. This means, that Stefanie might tell you that she likes to read and watch TV, because talking about her collection of sex toys from all around the world would simply be inappropriate.

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    4. One more thing: being uninteresting is also a common technique of German girls to allow you to save face. She is deliberately boring in conversation, hoping that you get the hint and bugger off. She could be rude, and she might be if you really don't get the hint, but people are relatively polite.

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  8. She indeed wasted a lot of energy... LOL

    https://youtu.be/2byzilDMn_8

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  9. Craig Sits Through Sexist Interview! http://www.manlymovie.net/2015/10/craig-sits-through-sexist-interview.html Some stuff for thought...

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  10. Belgian State Secretary for Equal Opportunities (if that's an appropriate translation lol) just ordered a study to be made on male victims of sexual abuse : http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/922/Nieuws/article/detail/2527208/2015/11/17/Staatssecretaris-Sleurs-onderzoekt-opvang-van-mannelijke-slachtoffers-seksueel-geweld.dhtml

    Basically it's about knowing who commits sexual abuse against men, how often is occurs, and how to provide care and a shelter to victims such as the refuges that already exist for women. Apparently a hospital in Sweden opened one recently.

    There are currently no real numbers on this in Belgium, so they had to use foreign studies on the subject to have a first idea of what it is like. Unsurprisingly, men go much less often to the police when they've been abused than women.

    I'm curious to see to what this study will lead.

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  11. I came across this blog well before the Sleazy one. I felt it was similar in tone to what A.S. writes about. Take a look:

    http://www.vinaywcmd.com/

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    1. I'm obviously not claiming a monopoly on the topics I write about.

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  12. Hmm, apparently if you say 'women aren't as good at men at finding out about music', it's also on the SJW radar. Sheesh: http://www.geeksandbeats.com/2015/11/help-im-a-female-music-fan/

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  13. Open Gates video above yet modern media says all is well. What's the reality in Germany with the refugees, Aaron?

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    1. Calling the situation totally fucked up would not even get close to describing how bad things are. There are now about two million illegals in the country, of which about half have not been registered. In fact, nobody even knows how many there are exactly. If you read the news, you can only shake your head: you read of an illegal raping a teenager, and after he was done with her, the next one jumps right on her. There have been cases of illegals with untreated TBC. The total cost for the tax payer, for next year only, is expected to be around 16 billion Euros. Note that the people have been told, for years, that there is no money for kindergartens, schools, the elderly, and the sick. We have been witnessing the dissolution of Germany. I would not be surprised if this country, like the other bastion of moral suprematists, i.e. Sweden, will move straight to the bottom of the economic totem pole in Europe. Sweden has been moving in that direction anyway, considering indicators like private debt or performance of the educational system (cf. PISA and TIMMS studies). Yet, anybody who points out that we are having serious, serious problem gets labelled a 'nazi'.

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  14. Thanks, Aaron.

    Is the 'nazi' intimidation label coming from regular people, or is it perhaps promoted by outside influences?

    Regarding rapes, is there any change in young German women's actions or belief about refugees or nationalism?

    For funding refugees, where does the money in fact come from when you are told there is no money for the elderly or health care? Is there an entity - for example, an international bank or foreign nation - who benefits from indebting Germans this time?

    How do you foresee this ending or being resolved?

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    1. In Germany there are a lot of politically correct people who have been brainwashed for decades. You could certainly say that this is the result of external influences.

      The change in women's actions is that many no longer dare to walk home on their own. There are also instances of women choosing more "appropriate" clothing, or to dye their hair black, in order to reduce the chance of alleged misunderstandings, which is an euphemism the police uses for rape and sexual assault.

      It is borrowed money. You probably know how interest works.

      How I foresee this ending? One scenario is civil war if not downright ethnic cleansing, considering that young immigrant men outnumber young Germans of non-migrant background, and the fact that our police and army are underfunded. There's just no money for those things, for whatever reason. Downright genocide may be too pessimistic an outlook. However, I consider increased segregation. and whites having to live in gated communities if they want to not be killed (like in South Africa) not at all unlikely.

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    2. That is quite bleak. I still don't understand why Merkel invited all those immigrants and why those in power think that islamized Europe is in their interest. It is not like EU was powerless to stop this.

      "young immigrant men outnumber young Germans of non-migrant background"
      This should be said more in the media. I often hear argument that Muslims don't comprise more than 10% of German population so two million more shouldn't be a problem...

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    3. Who or what is the money borrowed from?

      As an economist are you familiar with the supposed fact that Syria has its own independent bank, as did Libya, both of which have been attacked? There are numerous writings online saying all of these are banker's wars, and the losses of Germany are again being socialized to regular people. This would be a variant of how American taxpayers had to pay for the 2008 crisis created by the people of Wall Street. Does this seem right to you? It does to me but it's hard to make sense of what is exaggerated online and what is true.

      That's very disturbing that the older Germans and the society in general is abandoning and threatening their own people, especially the young. It's a horrible stereotype to think Germans are innately genocidal because if what you foresee comes true then Germans are committing genocide again, this time on their youth.

      This situation is also possibly a classic case of female mass psychology run wild: the Syrian young men who will not accept rules - alphas - will take over while the hard working servants - betas, which Germans sadly too often exemplify - fund the women's drama. Is that too harsh or is this in fact just basic Game related psychology politicized on a big scale?

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    4. Germany has a long tradition of offloading private losses to regular people, which had the obvious effect that the standard of living has been in decline for a few decades now. If you take a person who left Germany in the 80s, and hadn't been in the country since then, they would not recognize it anymore. According to statistics it's still a rich country, but that's because the rich have gotten a lot richer. The median Germany barely gets by.

      Germans have a healthy will to live, but sadly we also have an elite that detests their origin. To them, masses of migrations, who are, for the very most part, illegals, is a great opportunity for change. They are about as deluded as the Swedish political elite.

      Lastly, given that Germany is run by a woman, and one who sorely lacks leadership abilities, you are not too far off the mark.

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  15. Hey Sleazy,

    Recently i've became very interested in meditational practices and how they can alter someone's worldview and behaviour in a positive way. I've come accross many posts of Illuminatus mentioning you, and i've read about your extensive and lengthy experience as a meditator. As a matter of fact, you seem to contribute a huge chunk of your success (including women) due to meditation. Nothing wrong with that, but i find it quite odd that such a crucial element hardly gets mentioned on your own blog and in your books. If the difference is that huge and you have the intention to help guys improve their dating lives, you can't leave it out. Not one time does it get mentioned in minimal game, debunking or any work of you for that matter. This is a topic i find very interesting myself, especially its apparent connection with improving sexual success, so as a regular reader of your blog that sort of content would be highly appreciated by me, and i think i speak for many other guys. Lastly, i am interested in how your life was before you 'became a top tier player' and how the process of going from bad to incredibly succesfull has looked like for you. I remember you writing that you hadn't been very experienced yourself in earlier points in your life, and i think that writing about it could help a lot of guys that are still in that situation, as they might recognize their situation in yours and reading about that transformation might benefit their development tremendously. Apologies for the lengthy post, as always i find your writings about seduction to be making the most sense across the web, keep that up!

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    1. There are some threads on my forum on meditation and its effects. Also note that I have given a few seminars on meditation, as 'Aaron Sleazy'. Furthermore, I have been working on a book on this topic that is nearly done. However, 'nearly done' does not mean that I'll be able to release it tomorrow.

      I also discussed my 'change' a few times. In short, a big difference between me and many other guys is that I simply did not really care about women during my teens and adolescence, as I viewed them as a tremendous waste of time. I had plenty of opportunities, though. In a nutshell, I find the company of a good book more pleasant than the inane chatter of typical women, particularly the allegedly highly-educated ones.

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    2. I'm looking forward to that book! I'm incredibly interested in meditation and its reality-changing properties, as a guy who never passed the 1-week meditation mark, i honestly don't know what to expect. Reading the stuff about it on your forum gives me the impression that it's pretty great.

      I find your transition from none to succesful surprising, an exceptional one indeed that doesn't look like the regular guy's path at all. I remember you mentioning this in your book, to not make women a life priority but to simply focus on building yourself up in fundamental areas like LMS, which makes perfect sense. Women will be more receptive to you and be more of a 'sidedish' to your total life's menu.

      Any rough idea when the release of your book is?

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  16. This might have to go into the Dec open forum seeing it's almost Dec...

    Anyhow, I think this is the female version of the manure-sphere...(well, on top of HuffPost, JezeHell, etc.). This article is quite...well...

    http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2015/09/older-women-can-still-be-sexy.html

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    1. That post gave me a good laugh. I may have to spend some more time reading that site. Thanks for the link!

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