A Random Laugh

I was recently looking for a book on chess openings, and this was what the search engine I used spat out:

Putting the Fun back into Pickup

Given the rather high comic value of the pickup community, I always wondered why there aren't many people openly mocking fun of it and parody it. Admittedly, PUAHate is sometimes great at displaying the nonsense of the scene, but as far as parodies are concerned, not much has been around.

There were some attempts such as the hilarious article "Fast Seduction 101 and wikiHow" on Something Awful, which, among other things ridiculed the bizarre acronyms in use on mASF, and cited from retarded to downright scary posts. (Too bad they didn't cover some of the sickening "rape reports" such Gruenfeld's Hottie Hardcore LMR day2, but such is not funny but tragic and I hope that karma has gotten this a**hole by now.)

The article on Something Awful appeared over three years ago, but it didn't seem to catch on. Back then idiocy was about as rampant as it is nowadays, and Mehow had yet to appear on the scene.

Back then I also wasn't aware that developing an "insider vocabulary" was part of the marketing techniques, and it is actually part of the content of the products of fraudulent Internet marketers. For instance, convicted felon Frank Kern (who cut his teeth in the Internet marketing business by running a pyramid scheme) draws plenty of examples from the seduction industry. But people watching those programs apparently take it too seriously since they have paid serious money for it, or, in case of the US, just took out some more loans.

I also remember a parody of Mystery and Style in which a dude in horrible make up who calls himself "Misery" is teaching some geeks a couple of concepts from Mystery Method. His assistant has the name "Stylus". This was when the Nintendo DS was on the height of its popularity. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the video on Youtube.

What I did find, though, was this hilarious "tribute" to my favorite Polish PUA, Mehow:



I haven't heard anything from Mehow in a while. Rumors were that he wasn't doing that great these days, financially speaking. Then again, has he ever?

But none of this reached the extent of a thorough parody, but recently once guy crossed this threshold. He calls himself OGFurious. At first I wasn't sure whether he really is serious, but thankfully he has this message at the end of his videos:

Here is one of my favourites:



Indeed, unlike the other PUA videos which are unintentionally funny (again, Mehow comes to mind), this is a guy who makes parodies on purpose, and it's not bad at all.

Also check out this one:



Keep smiling. :)

(Thanks to JonniD for telling me about OGFurious).

Which guru is the most likely to get a sexual harrasment charge?

I was skimming PUAHate.com recently. While I think that the forum has gone downhill a lot in recent months, it still makes for the occasional entertaining read, such as when I saw a post by "Monstar" who asked "Which guru do you think is the most likely to get a sexual harassment charge..."

I was disappointed to not see my name in the short list that followed, which was:

3. Ross Jeffries
2. Ozzie RSD
1. Sean Stephanson

But some other guy chimed in (spelling fixed):

What about this guy Aaron Sleazy? He made an ebook about his hate of the PU industry (not community as he points out) but at the same time he has a book out and encourages people on his forum to flirt and get laid by 1) not saying a word, 2) keep isolating and 3) keep sexually escalating.. He also does bootcamps but only with men who are already successful w/women.

Dude I remember i felt a girls hair once and told her she had really pretty hair and then she thanked me and just moved out of the line to another one..(she was with her friend) And I know this guy Sleazy will probably say, "You didn't do the technique right" or "Just move on dude. She probably wasn't being receptive..", but I don't give a f*ck dude..Its just gross, sleazy and requires a really raunchy type of dude to keep doing it..I felt gross after I felt that girls hair too and just left the club because i was kind of embarrassed..

Plus I heard this guy Aaron Sleazy rose in the PU ranks because of his "bathroom game."

Maybe its because hes European and this type of sh*t just flows there but your a** is looking at a class 1 felony doing that type of sh*t in America.. You will not get away with that shit in America and if you do, you will end up f*cking some nasty ass skunks..

Now that was quite funny, because I don't think that touching a girls hair while saying her that it looks nice is nothing special, and then this guy felt embarrassed and left the club. This probably shows pretty well how uptight some men are. Just think of it, if a girl walked up to you and grazed your pecs while commenting on it, you'd feel good about yourself, too, wouldn't you? Of course, in both cases the presumption is that there is some mutual sexual attraction there to begin with, but you don't do this kind of stuff anyway if you get the impression that it is otherwise.

Thankfully "Uncle Stickyhands" came to my rescue and replied:

Dude, you really need to stop going to church and lose your virginity asap.

I couldn't agree more.

On the other hand, there is the obvious issue of how you perceive someone who is making a move but whom you don't find attractive. Those are "creeps" and guys who risk sexual harassment charges, as the following clip humorously shows:




Recap:

If you are in a bad mood and think I'm being a d*ckhead: No, I am not. Just switch the roles in your head and imagine it would be girls making advances. This also shows why "game" is for the very most part nonsensical (with the exception of some basic issues which I wouldn't even want to call "game" like confidence) because you surely don't think that an otherwise unattractive girl would get a hot guy by certain routines or "techniques". Sometimes you see a hot guy with an ugly dumpling, though, but those are guys who seemingly don't know what they are worth or who are afraid to approach girls they really find hot. Of course, in this case the confident dumpling might be able to "game" her way into his pants.

The Cult of Real Social Dynamics

I received some interesting feedback to my recent article in which I describe the unethical and (borderline?) fraudulent techniques Real Social Dynamics (RSD) is using to sell Ozzie’s “Physical Game Book”.

First, a guy named JT commented:

It's really a joke at this point. I was at the RSD free seminar awhile back and Tyler himself was poking fun at it, so whatevs.

It is too bad that the joke is on the RSD fanboys.

I replied:

You are asking, "So, whatever?" but are you even aware of the implications?

You basically say that Tyler went up on stage and communicated something like "You know, we think our customers are complete idiots and not only that, we also give a sh*t about business ethics, that's why we use those fraudulent techniques. Isn't that totally cool?"

...and then the crowd cheers and thinks Tyler is a genius. One Asberger's patient might even say to his neighbor, "Oh, gee, I wish I were as unstifled as Tyler."

But it’s not that shadiness is something RSD adopted in recent weeks. My buddy JuiceTerry sent me a couple of classic links he had dug up on the website Rip Off Report. By the way, RipOff Report is run by a scammer, too. Check Salty Droid’s article RipOff Report Report for coverage (the guy running RipOff Report deletes negative reviews if you PAY him).

However, RSD decided not to pay RipOff Report to delete the negative reviews, so there’s still some entertainment to be had.

Please note that those are comparatively old reports --- one was updated in 2009 though --- , but you can find plenty of more recent negative reviews online if you just look around a bit. Sadly, RSD is hardly the exception here.

Exhibit #1:
Report: Real Social Dynamics (Real Social Dynamics - RSD Sucks Ripoff Internet)

At one point in the night every student was with Christophe and I realized no one had any idea where Jlaix or Mike were. They had been gone at least half an hour. I asked Christophe where they were and he didn't know so he had the other students open sets while he and I went out on a mission to find them. We went upstairs and found them in a corner laughing with drinks in their hands and having a good time.

Christophe started screaming at them and they replied that they were opening sets for students. There were clearly no students around them or even on the same floor as them and there were clearly no girls near them. At the end of the night when we debriefed one of the students flipped out that Mike and Jlaix were gone so long and Mike replied that he was doing demos then the student yelled out “Bulls**t!” and they had nothing to say back.

These debriefs were all held in the same pizza place which was a very public setting were people could hear us talk about game. That night one guy who was not in the workshop and was eating at the pizza place yelled out “I have a question” to Jlaix and Jlaix responded “Yes, you're fat”. The guy, who was about twice Jlaix's size, then charged at Jlaix and shoved him in the chair he was sitting in so hard that Jlaix got knocked right into the wall and broke the chair he was sitting in into 3 pieces.

(…)

Like the rest of the days, the other students were pushed into sets and didn't do anything else the first half of this day. When we got there Mike saw that the college he attends UCLA had a close football game on TV so he took some time out to watch it and not pay any attention to the students. He was by himself at the bar watching a football game.

(…)

Next set of girls Mike and Jlaix talked to were 2 girls. I was right next to them the whole time. Mike talked to his girl for a few minutes then she started losing interest and turned the other direction. For whatever reason the girls left 10 minutes into the conversation. Jlaix talked to another girl for about 5 minutes and then she left. She ran to her friends saying “ewww. That guy said he would do ----- if I kissed him so I left.” At the end of the night none of the instructors sets were going that well. Jlaix ended up talking to a girl that was approximately 5'5” and 250 lbs. All Christophe could say was “she's not sleeping in our room tonight”.

(…)


So here is where I put in my opinion. I'd say the instructors skill level was very low. I honestly have friends who on their worst nights still do better than any of the instructors were doing which made me very unsatified. Christophe goes in high energy on the girls he talks to and never drops it which I thought was totally a beginner's mistake. I don't think any of the instructors were good enough to be teaching guys how to get women. Also, expect to take s**t from the instructors.

They know that 99% of the guys who take these workshops are wimps and don't stand their ground so they take full advantage of this. On the third night I really didn't want to go to the Apartment bar for the third night in a row because I wanted to go to a nice venue and see the instructors talk to really hot women. On the third day Mike said we could go someone nice if all the students agreed.

Well, all the students agreed then Mike said how only the instructors know which place is best for the students. The real reason the instructors wanted to go the Apartment bar was because Mike and Jlaix wanted cheap drinks. Every night they drank and Jlaix even mentioned to me about how cool it was that they had $2 St. Pauly Girl beer.

Overall I think the students got very little value out of the workshop. All most of them did was go into set for a few minutes and then leave. Another things the instructors do is say that they make barely any money off of these workshops and that they just do it for the students which is completely off.

The CEO Nick wears $800 D & G shoes from what I've heard and I know someone else who saw the other CEO Tyler (Owen) with 4 full shopping bags of clothes in his hands after shopping at Melrose in L.A. which is extremely expensive. After the workshop I talked to Tyler about the issues I had with the workshop and he said he was going to call some of the students to verify it and get back to me but he never did, even after I tried to contact him several times after.

Exhibit #2:
Report: Real Social Dynamics (Real Social Dynamics ripoff false advertising frauds scam artists West Hollywood California)

Third, none of what they did was objectively result-oriented. Almost every approach would consist of me going up to a group, stating a conversational opening line or story, and then the instructor I was with would come to us 30 seconds later and continue the conversation. Afterwards the instructors would try to drive the conviction into me that the girls “were so interested in you” based on even a frivolous small glance or hesitation on their part which could have signified many different things. Then the cycle repeated.

Fourth, the course was unorganized. On the second day Nick Kho and another instructor gave me the first lecture based on a ‘cheat sheet' they handed out. This document was filled with abbreviations, acronyms, and incomplete sentences that assumed that the reader had a knowledge of what all these meant. Through the lecture, he would explain once what they signified, but afterwards did not volunteer to go through it with us again. Furthermore, I was delayed three times on a time span of two months in excess of the original time I planned on taking it.

By the end of the course, not only did my attitude or knowledge of social dynamics not change at all, but on the contrary, after seeing a lack of both professionalism and effectiveness on the instructors' behalf, my beliefs in socializing worsened. I can honestly say that I am both worse off and monetarily down after taking this class. They did not demonstrate mastery of the skills they offer to teach. They are frauds with cunning advertising. I did not see any results on their behalf or my own.

Badboy likes Escorts?

There are some funny stories being spread around about Badboy. For instance, as I have heard from people who have attended a PUA summit in Prague, he was spotted around the red-light district, and when questioned, he “confessed” that his new game consisted of trying to fuck prostitutes for free. This does stretch my imagination somewhat, and probably yours, too. Anyway, I’m just reporting.

But one of the cool things of being known for calling the bluff on the community is that people send me stuff I never would have discovered myself, such as Badboy’s recent newsletter, which does not only use the complete lyrics of two songs without permission or copyright notice (someone tell Eminem’s lawyers that his “Shake That” is being duplicated in there), but some really hilarious stuff too.

Here is how Badboy’s newsletter starts:

And this is how it ends:

Have a good look at the previous image, and now compare it to this one:

Incidentally, Badboy's image it is the same as the one BodyMiracle uses. Now you might wonder what kind of company this is --- it is an escort agency for porn stars! This may now make some people wonder what Badboy does with the money he makes from his bootcamps. Oh, wait, I bet he'll tell those escorts to come to his hotel and then he might try to "game" them into fucking them for free...

Also, think about what else you could get for the amount of cash you’d have to plunk down for "pickup training". On BodyMiracle, most of the escorts go for $800/30min or $1600/1h. So for the same amount of money a “bootcamp” would cost you, you could bang three award winning pornstars, and maybe you’d even get a package deal. Just think of it, if you are so inclined, you could either spend 30 minutes with an award winning porn star(let), or, and maybe for some people this is the better deal, you pay roughly the same amount to talk to Vin DiCarlo on the phone for 90 minutes.

It's your choice.

Some critical Feedback to "Debunking", Part II

This post is the continuation of a previous one.

The email I mentioned didn’t stop with trying to defend Speed Seduction. It also questioned the role of looks, popularity and money, which I have plenty of times described as the main ingredients of seduction (no surprise, really).

The second thing is...you mention on the blog...also quoting some guy from your forum that started a thread (that had the word "fishing" in it) ...that good looking guys get the hot girls and bad looking guys the not so hot ones. Also you say being overweight is a deal breaker. I'm not trying to contradict you or start a debate or whatever... I'm just trying to make an observation and see what you think about it. Firstly I have a friend who's overweight and does good with women. He's very funny, smart and mature...girls seem to like that. He doesn't get the best looking girls yet he has never had a problem having an abundance of women in his life, both friends and lovers/fuck buddies. There's also a guy on Zan's forum, an overweight politician who does great with women. I also see quite a few overweight guys on the street holding hands with really good looking girls. I also have a friend who's really skinny and not good looking and he gets hot girls all the time. (he has a big dick but ...he's not classically good looking). The idea is ...I see quite a few not so good looking guys with good looking women ...and I can't connect this with your "theory" mentioned on the blog.

I have allowed myself to set in bold what the reason is those guys get laid. I’m really glad the guy who has sent me the email was critical enough to look for a reason beyond “game” that makes girls want to get involved with those apparently otherwise less attractive men.

Let’s just go through it in some more detail:

I have a friend who's overweight and does good with women. He's very funny, smart and mature...girls seem to like that. He doesn't get the best looking girls yet he has never had a problem having an abundance of women in his life, both friends and lovers/fuck buddies.

Yes, it’s sometimes enough if people just really like each other, and if he is “funny, smart and mature” he is in an excellent position. Of course, this doesn’t mean that he will automatically get the most attractive girls but if he is somewhat average then he does well by getting average girls himself. However, I bet that if he bothered to lose weight, he would suddenly be able to get hotter girls.

There's also a guy on Zan's forum, an overweight politician who does great with women.

Ah, politicians, this noble race which pretends to have nothing but the best in mind for society, as long as they can quench their thirst for power and money. Having lobbyists around who bribe you with tens of thousands must be sweet, and if you f*ck things up bad enough and you get voted out of office, you just get a cushy job in the private sector, incidentally in the same industry you were a benefactor of while you were in office. What happened to integrity? No, instead that dude brags about all the girls he is banging. Thankfully he can hide behind a username, but let’s just hope this comes back and haunt him once he gets more influential.

As I see it, politicians are inherently corrupt scum, up to the highest levels --- just think of “Dubya” and his cronies like Cheney, or former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, who supported a major infrastructure project by Gazprom, then the third biggest company in the world, and, surprise, surprise, was hired as an “adviser” after his tenure.

Because politicians are inherently corrupt, they have no problem accepting bribery or, “speaking fees” for tens of thousands of dollars, and they are amazing liars too. So, even if all their money and power would not get them laid, they’d surely tell you with a blank face that, no, no, no, of course they never bill their expense accounts for hookers and escorts. No, never. It’s impossible. Instead, they go out and pick up girls at Starbucks, and probably shove a wallet filled with “Benjamins” into the face of a malnourished illegal immigrant worker.

I also see quite a few overweight guys on the street holding hands with really good looking girls.

As long as you don’t know more about those guys, you don’t know what they have going for them. It could be money, power, big dicks. Heck, those might be the colleagues of that corrupt scum bag of a politician for all you know, and the girls escorts, or their daughters.

I also have a friend who's really skinny and not good looking and he gets hot girls all the time. (he has a big dick but ...he's not classically good looking).


Let me spell that for you again: he has a BIG DICK. Yes, having a big dick is a huge benefit. Forget about the “size doesn’t matter, it’s what you do with it” nonsense. Besides, I never got why having a big cock would mean that you automatically have no clue how to use it.

This reminds me of one of my former girls who commented on my sizable cock while she was blowing me for the first time:

Her: You’ve got a nice one.
Me: So, you like ‘em big, girl?
Her (laughs): No, I want them small and really thin so that I don’t feel anything.

…and continued. Yes, it hurt when I entered her but it seems to have been worth it. While I am vain enough to tell myself that I get laid because I am good looking, the size of my cock also plays a role.

The idea is ...I see quite a few not so good looking guys with good looking women ...and I can't connect this with your "theory" mentioned on the blog.

Now you can. It's often very obvious why guys get laid. But thanks a lot for this interesting email, I've enjoyed commenting on it.

Increasing the Margin

 This is just a quick follow-up to my recent bashing of RSD's shady marketing techniques (and another one will come soon).

As a quick recap: Real Social Dynamics has released a book with the title "Physical Game Book", and uses this as a Trojan Horse to get people hooked via forced continuity. I thought I had pointed out every facet of their scammy techniques in this case, or at least as much as you can figure out without actually ordering the product, but it turned out that I didn't.

An anonymous commenter pointed out to me that RSD charges ridiculously high shipping fees to Europe. He rightly remarked:

Seriously, RSD? It costs you $56 to ship a book to Europe in any sort of decent time frame?

Here is the proof he supplied:

Just as a reminder: Amazon.com and many other retailers charge a few bucks for overseas shipping, and if you RSD shills now want to play the "Amazon is a multibillion corporation and can afford to subsidize shipping" --- no, they don't. Shipping overseas from the US really isn't that expensive. I've occasionally ordered some stuff off ebay from private sellers, and they seemed to be able to get a book or T shirt to me for a similar amount of money as Amazon does.

However, Real Social Dynamics isn't just trying to rip of European customers. I went to the official site again to check how much they charge US customers, and I shook my head in disbelief:

Honestly, almost $20 for shipping, you gotta be sh*tting me!

For some strange reason, though, they charge less for people living in Hawaii, Alaska or Puerto Rico:

I guess that's just another reason to move to Puerto Rico. The other is that you then save travel cost for pickup workshops that guarantee to get laid. You just pay a grand or two and the workshop host gives a tenner to a hooker while he gets the difference as a compensation for his efforts. It's a clear win-win for all parties involved. I might write about this absurdity of at least one company in this business some other day, but that's enough for today.

Some critical Feedback to "Debunking"

The email responses to “Debunking the Seduction Industry” keep coming, despite having released the book months ago. Only very few replies are critical, though, and in this post I will discuss one, since it basically covers everything the few guys wrote to me who objected to the content of my free ebook were saying:

Firstly I checked your "Is the PU industry a sham industry" post on mASF, there were quite a few replies to that post (I'm not a mASF member, I just came across your post via your blog). You said in the book that you didn't know of anyone who had success with speed seduction, yet I've seen lots of guys on that thread saying speed seduction is the best bla bla bla (the contrary to what you said). I don't really know what to believe, I tend to think Ross is not getting laid as much as he says, his system is useless and his testimonials are fake...but that's just me. Anyway,the question is how did you come up with that statement in the book that you don't know anyone who got success with SS when guys replied to your thread saying the contrary?

You say that there are “lots of guys on that thread saying speed seduction is the best”, but of course you have to take into account who is making those claims. Unfortunately, for your argument, you are referring to some of the most discredited individuals on mASF.

But allow me first a remark on the nature of the so-called “Masterminds” forum on mASF. This sub-forum was created after some people voiced concerns about the rapidly decreasing quality of the forum, which continues to this day. Formhandle also hoped that some other “big guns” would join in but the few that showed up made complete fools out of themselves, such as HuddersfieldMark and BigWillyStyle, and basically got laughed off the forum.

However, this doesn’t mean that all is well and good on that board. You basically received an invitation if you managed to get a “good” ranking by other mASF users, and this basically means that as long as you didn’t piss anybody off and wrote the occasionally field report, you were shooed in, which included a couple of guys that had barely lost their virginity.

This background allows you to put into perspective the claims of the two most vocal supporters of Speed Seduction in this thread. The first one, Mankite, does, from what you can deduce from his posting history, get laid rather infrequently, and if he does, he somehow manages to backward rationalize it by saying that he was using Speed Seduction. For instance, he has written a “lay report” in which he seduces a girl that was listening to a small solo performance (!) he has given, completely neglecting the fact that just holding a music instrument on a stage is pretty much enough to get laid --- and then you read that he was “pacing” and “hypnotizing” the girl with his instrument.

Further, I have reason to believe that Mankite does not get laid by hot girls. Evidence are his “I’m in love” posts which show up about once a year whenever he’s managed to bang what he considers a hottie, and makes sure that everyone else also gets that impression.

The other guy, Baddog, was a running gag on mASF. He had the shtick of posting Youtube videos with no explanatory text at all and a title like “Best example of X”, claiming that this meant that he was teaching us seduction via the Socratic method. Later, he went on to develop an “open source” seduction method called A.C.E.D., which was the most vague “method” I have ever seen. It took a few months, but eventually many of the other “Masterminds” ganged up and told him publicly what they think of him. Eventually, he was banned from the Masterminds sub-forum and, as far as I know, he hasn’t posted ever since, because it was such a blow to his ego.

Let’s have a look at some of his claims: he claims to have had nine “lays” that year (and this was in August), including --- red flag --- “a 4 month dry spell earlier this year where LMR was my middle name because I was re-calibrating without SS”. At this point your conclusion can only be “whacko”. But the very next sentence is: “I COULD get laid several times a WEEK if I used SS like before, and was so inclined, but I’ve abandoned it for.... (get THIS!) ETHICAL REASONS.” Sure you have.

Whenever somebody tells you how many times he could (!) get laid, run for the hills. Oh, and surely you have read this line of Baddog, too: “ It’s taken me 2 years of 6 to 8 hours of study or field work PER DAY to get to the point I’m at.” Later on, he writes, “Typically I'll open at least 20 or 30 people, maybe over 10 or 15 sets in an evening.”

Hahahahaha.

Dear email writer, if Baddog’s claim that he really has invested 4300 to 5800 hours (!) is true, approached as many girls as he does, and all that he can show for this effort is about one “lay” a month despite the absurd amount of time he puts in, then this guy does nothing but discredit Speed Seduction. If you then actually bothered to look up the “lay reports” Baddog has posted, you will find that he eventually stumbled upon a horny girl and then thinks that he now has to use Speed Seduction to get her, i.e. to him it is inconceivable that girls can just be horny, which then leads him to deceive himself by stating that she got horny by using "Speed Seduction". One wonders why the other dozen or so girls were immune to those superb techniques, though.

What Baddog does is applying the same faulty reasoning I have outed in “Debunking the Seduction Community”, when I was stating that "game" is nothing but backwards rationalizing.

I could go on about Baddog, but this should be enough.

The email of the guy didn’t stop here, but this post does. Stay tuned for the second part!

You stay classy, Real Social Dynamics!

While certainly not as entertaining as watching The Legend of Ron Burgundy, there is at nonetheless some entertainment value in browsing the website of Real Social Dynamics.

After posting The Marketing Syndicate and the Business Cycle of the Seduction Industry, Part I, one of my facebook friends commented on the note, informing me about a recent book release of Real Social Dynamics. The title in question is called "Physical Game Book", written by their instructor Ozzie, and available for the hefty price of $29.95. While far from the amounts required to purchase DVD sets, it's still far above what you'd usually expect to pay for books.

But what's wrong with trying to sell a book, you might ask.

Nothing, would it not be the case that they use "forced continuity", which is one of the shadiest marketing techniques in the scammy corners of the Internet, which is where the Seduction industry usually gathers. Forced continuity means that you click to buy a cheap front-end product and during one of the check-out phases, the software automatically adds a subscription based service which you have to opt out. It's shady and misleading, and it is laudable that companies such as VISA and Mastercard have started to go after companies that employ "free trials" and forced continuity programmes.

But, on to RSD and what is called by Mastercard a "negative option enrollment", meaning that you have to opt-out, otherwise you will be billed. RSD apparently didn't get the news and I hope they'll get their just rewards sooner rather than later.

On their sales page, the book is $29.95, and they speak of free bonuses:

But look what you get once you click on the prominently placed "by now" links:

You might ask yourself, "Gosh, what's wrong with the sum here?"

I did so too, then I looked up and saw this:

....and only if you disable the box, the price reverts back to $29.95. It doesn't stop here, by the way.

If you click on "learn more", you will learn that you actually pay a shipping fee of $5. Have a look:

And this concludes today's case study on the dishonesty and scammy nature of the Seduction industry on the example of Real Social Dynamics, which also brings me back to Ron Burgundy. Please substitute San Diego for "Real Social Dynamics" in the following clip:

Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor (II)

If you have liked my previous post Bad Bootcamp led to Physical Attack by Instructor, then you will love this follow up. There were some more recent developments and ForeverDrake asked me to post the following on my blog. Prepare for an awful lot of drama and some interesting insights into the shady side of the seduction industry.

=========================

Bravo Nathan!

It's nice to see that Nathan PUA has gone the route of denying this incident altogether. Hey, maybe Speer can defend Nathan some more too. Or you guys could try the route of accusing me of being unable to differentiate the simple act of somebody resting on my shoulders versus somebody literally grabbing the back of my neck. Oh wait, you guys did! Nice! I couldn't believe you could stoop any lower Nathan, but you have, instead of offering me a sincere apology you have decided to deny this incident... ALTOGETHER!

This is seriously more drama than I'd like to deal with but when a manipulative person attempts to deny his actions and then make me out to look bad then I have to step in and do something about it, I hope you understand Nathan. :)

I was going to let this go, I really was, but you seriously expect me to let this go after you try to DENY this ENTIRE situation and then have Speer on the podcast to defend YOU?

Nice job man! I can tell you have a lot of integrity. :)

Too bad you were a dumbass and decided to grab my neck in a convention room FULL of people. I can easily round up witnesses to the incident if you'd like Nathan or Speer. The only fucking reason I didn't beat the shit out of you right there was because... 1. I was in a convention that my buddy ran and there was a Q&A panel going on up front, I didn't want to ruin the footage of this. 2. You're a millionaire, clearly you're going to sue me if you were already threatening to, I doubt I can explain myself out of beating your ass in a crowd full of about 50 people, even though you're trying to deny and explain yourself out of grabbing my neck in a room of about 50 people. For anyone reading, feel free to call me a pussy all you'd like. If me not wanting to get sued by a millionaire is being a pussy, then I'm a pussy. :)

Now, he did it in a room full of people, I'm sure many people have already stepped up to confirm this as witnesses. But allow me to list 2 witnesses right now. Members "MisterB" and "Jedi" from the DC Lair "TheAttractionVault" were witnesses to this. MisterB was right next to me when this happened. Jedi was behind me when this happened. Here's what Jedi had to say about the neck grabbing when I asked him about it.

July 30, 2010 at 1:39pm
(no subject)
yes, it was vicious too
—Jedi

Obviously, Psych did not cut off ALL affiliations with you (Nathan) if you simply rested your hand on my back, but instead you verbally threatened me and grabbed my neck. That is why Psych cut off affiliations with you and that is why this entire situation has been blown to such massive proportions. Although I am not quite 100% sure why Psych didn't cut off affiliations with you sooner during those nut grabbing/hitting allegations, who knows. I still feel right now that him cutting affiliations with you was a publicity stunt because of all the negative attention he has received through this entire ordeal.

And of course, Dream banned you from all further 21 convention events because of your actions towards me. He obviously didn't do this because you "rested your hands on me" or whatever bullshit you decided to tell Speer. Dream will back me up on this and so will several (almost all) the other coaches at the convention have said so. Hshudo has my back in this as well. I don't believe anybody has taken your side in this entire situation either, except perhaps Speer, unless he's not taking your side but that you simply managed to convince him of your lies, who knows? All I can say is, if Speer or anybody decides to defend you then they are no friend of mine.

There is clearly something to be said about Speer's integrity if he is seriously deciding to defend Nathan so I did a little bit of digging, it wasn't hard to find these few posts. Seriously dude, if you're really going to defend Nathan then go ahead. Paraphrasing what you said on the recent podcast, you said that Nathan (or anybody) is free to market or advertise your products and bootcamps because Nathan didn't personally do anything to you. So, if he hits a past student in the testicles and then grabs another former student by the neck, you don't mind this person advertising and marketing you? That says a lot about your character
Speer .

And don't bother trying to sue me Speer. I'm just stating my opinions and quoting other people.

This post is by "AnacondaMMA", a member on the casanovacrew forums. Also as an added note, NONE of the e-mails or posts that I will now proceed to quote have been edited in any way, shape, or form. They are the original unedited versions of the quote. And you can easily look these people up (well, somewhat easily) and contact them to verify the validity of these statements.

Oh helllllllllll no! I try not to "troll" or whatever the hell it's called and I dont want to talk shit about anyone I've never met. But Speer - FUCK YOU IN THE FACE. Man I want to bitch slap that guy so bad...

How is that asshole going to say that he's against suing a student when he threatened to sue one of my best friends for asking for a refund MORE THAN ONCE during a bootcamp and then even called him again to make sure he wasn't telling anyone about their conversation.

Now my boy is probably going to get mad at me for letting this out but if Speer wanna sue someone, he can sue me.

And while I'm calling him out so I dont have to keep yammering in post after post. I thought he was really douchey at the SNL seminar walking through a speech SEVERAL TIMES that I enjoyed WAAAAAY more than his and acting like he was king shit. I wasn't the only one to notice that either.

OK. Enough of my shit talking but I swear that the above is 100% true.
—AnacondaMMA

Hmm... Nice. Here's another quote from this guy. Wow, your bootcamps sound awesome Speer. I totally want to take one with you now. Not.

his was over a year ago so I may not be EXACT on all of this but here's a laundry list:

he was at least 2 hours late

Speer told my buddy to listen to his (speers) ipod while he was off doing something else

He told my buddy he needs to see a shrink after my buddy asked for his money back

he threatened to sue him in writing after my buddy requested a refund through Paypal

Speer took him "daygaming" to a bunch of clothing stores and told him to hit on the gay dudes there to practice and get good discounts. (WTF?!?)

Speer also told him that all of the other ppl had cancelled on the bootcamp so he couldnt give the money back because he wouldnt be able to cover his costs.

We actually call getting ripped off "Schlomo'd" now. Cause that's his real name.
—AnacondaMMA

This sounds mad shitty. And after he wanted a refund you threatened to sue him and told him that he needed psychiatric help? Good job bro.

Here's a post by "Santa", also a member on the casanova crew forums.

I don't even know what the above is about. Did not listen to that episode, but who cares who you are affiliated with or not. You could not explain your way out of a paper bag. I remember when you came to our layer talk and shot bs and belittled members and then shot a video of the lair members outside with you giving a speech as if you were some great leader promising to take everyone on a bootcamp like adventure for free. And then disappeared...
—Santa

I didn't even have to dig hard to find negative things said about you bro. One of the top speakers / coaches at the convention also said some pretty negative things about you Speer. He said you have mad game, but that your training and teachings and bootcamps are not worth taking. Won't specify who said it, but he's voted one of the top 3 pick up artists in the world.

Enough of Speer, now back to Nathan.

Hey Nathan PUA, remember Aaron Sleazy? Yeah, the guy you tried ripping off a couple months ago. You tried getting him to give you and your buddy free training and a free talk so that YOU MADE THE PROFIT. And when the date of the event drew ever closer he had declined your obviously manipulative offer, and when he did, remember what you did? Of course you do, you sent an e-mail to everyone who was going to attend the event and said that you had to cut off your ties with Sleazy and then you said you found out he was involved in "unethical" business actions when it was you who was doing the "unethical" behavior.
http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2010/08/bad-bootcamp-led-to-physical-attack-by.html
Sleazy has got my back on this too.

Or feel free to check out the thread I made on mASF.
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/fs?action=9&boardid=2&read=104258&fid=34
I know many guys who replied to that thread / have personally been in-field with them. These are pretty successful guys who have my back on this issue as well.

Or hey, how about that thread you started on the PUAhate forum. You know, the one you accuse BradP of being a rapist which is clearly untrue. Now THAT is slander. Too bad that website apparently does IP tracing or you were stupid enough to use your real e-mail address when creating that "GiantsFan" account...
http://www.puahate.com/showthread.php?t=6734
Can't explain yourself out of this one, can ya Nathan? Of course you can't, but feel free to deny it as I already know you will, just as you denied that you actually grabbed my neck. Only a complete idiot would believe somebody like you. If this link isn't so familiar then how about this one?
http://forum.casanovacrew.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=giantsfan
Yeah, Nathan posted this on the PUAhate forum AND the casanova crew forum. Sad. Did you really think you wouldn't get exposed for this?

http://www.bradp.com/nathan-pua-psych-and-heartwork-choking-incident
BradP has already got my back on this. I think this is the article that sparked so much rage inside of you.

Libido and Ratisse also have my back on this incident.


Here's a post from "ProtaJ" a member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

I felt the same way when we were at the beach. Nathan pressure me to do a bootcamp and when I told him I didn't think I needed one, he ran to you and told you that I said I was too advanced. I think you have a good program and are working hard to make it better and provide more value, but I am concerned with the people who represent you.
—ProtaJ

You're a really high pressure salesman, and Psych must be aware of these things yet he let them happen. Heartwork and Psych also watched you try to pitch me another bootcamp ($695 dollars that I was unwilling to pay) when I was simply asking for a sixty dollar refund. Which could easily have been split up into thirty dollars for Heartwork and thirty dollars for Psych to pay. But oh well. Now all this drama had to unfold.

Another post on TopLair by "Psych" himself.

Brad P is just trying to talk badly about me to hurt other competing instructors.

I am NOT a part of this drama and am simply guilty by association at this point. I firmly stand by what I teach and think I give an amazing program considering the price point. I know some guys from toplair just took a bootcamp with me so I'd like to see their reviews and you can all draw your own conclusions. I'm not going to comment on the incident other than simply saying I had nothing to do with it what so ever. You either need to talk to foreverdrake or nathanpua.
—Psych

This post is strange because Psych himself said on the podcast that he does not think Brad was trying to rail on him in his blog post, yet here he is saying the opposite, which is that he believes BradP was intentionally talking badly about him just to hurt competing instructors.

Here's a message from your buddy Heartwork, an e-mail I received the day after this neck grabbing incident.

from the information that I gathered from what Nathan did was completely out of line. Having just met the guy this weekend I know I can't be associated with anything/anyone that conducts business in that way. I have actually turned down their offer to assist them on an upcoming program because of it. I also have a lot of respect for your self control to not take physical action when it happened.
—Heartwork

Everybody seems so sure you grabbed me by the neck, I wonder why? Oh, maybe because... You did.

Heartwork's e-mail continued.

Now here is my real concern, i have only met nate this weekend and have learned one thing, he is an angry dude, that does not know how to deal with people, with waaaay too much money just lying on his hands. Now even though I don't see myself ever talking to him again, I really think that if you start saying stuff about him somewhere, he will take some legal action, which I think is terrible but can't help but be concerned with how it will play out. Although there is really no case, paying lawyers, and making an annoying situation. I think you have the right to say what nate did and should but I think he will do something about it. I'm letting you know this as a friend would hate to see your money, family, and free time get involved in whatever nate does legally.

it was also nate who told me and jarrett not to pay the refund, I would have liked to just split it with jarrett. Which I hope I can still convince jarrett of because I hate that something we were involved with a year ago resulted in someone actually threatening you. Simply because that happened (regardless of how long ago it was) registers to me as a very legitimate reason for a refund. And I still stand by paying the refund regardless of what you decide to do. Nates actions came from him being mad that you were saying something bad about jarrett hurts his business. I think jarrett will agree with me, that he, as nates buisness partner, needs to get nate to apologize to you and compensate what happened and I want jarrett and I (or at least me) to resolve our conflict entirety separate of nates influence.
—Heartwork

Really? Scare tactics? Nice. And according to Heartwork, it was entirely your fault that this entire incident happened, which I might add... Was only over $60 dollars. Nice one man, you're a millionaire but you can't spare sixty freaking dollars? Hmmm... Greedy much?

I also find it entirely too hilarious that Psych and Heartwork were seriously going to let you JUST apologize to me and then pay me back the 60 dollars and then call it the end of that. This e-mail is the main one that convinced me that Psych's cutting off his affiliations with Nathan was entirely a publicity act. Nice. Psych wanted to just get you to apologize to me and then end this entire situation off that, as if an apology would fix that, it's not like you can just go around and grab former students by the neck all day long and say "Oh, sorry, my hand slipped!" and expect it all to be over with. By the way, don't even try apologizing to me, you're such a manipulative creep that I believe anything you say will be a contrived and forced apology just for publicity sake. I will not accept any apology you attempt to convey to me.

Heartwork's e-mail continued even further. And sorry I had to post this Heartwork. I know you're going to read this eventually, the only reason I'm posting this is because you lied blatantly to my face when I was asking for a refund as cheap as sixty dollars. But hey, feel free to repost any e-mails I sent you if you'd like man, I have nothing to hide.

I have not talked to nathan since the convention but have talked to psych. I know I personally think nate is a fucking psychopath for doing that and want zero affiliation even from knowing him or his actions. Me and psych both FREAKED about what happened and was an all too late eye opener for someone like psych who is in an actual business relationship with him. Immediately after the fact I washed my hands of him and psych I am sure is plotting his way out. This has nothing to do with a bad reputation or anything like that getting out, this is general safety and concern shit.

As far as his actions I want zero affiliation by making speculations of what he would do, that could be used against me in any legal way, because of his unpredictable and connected nature. I just know he has a shitload of money, sketchy political connections that gets him that money, and a ruthless attitude. I think he will try to convince a judge that you took business away from him during the convention through slander. Which would be a long and expensive process. I even heard of him getting a few people at the convention to admit that you had said something negative towards his affiliations to start formulating an argument if needed. The guy is nuts and I want NOTHING to do with this or him for my own safety and security.

I do honestly think people should know about his actions and he should be held accountable, also you will never hear me say a good thing about him word of mouth, but as far as creating documented evidence that he could take and use just screams as a bad idea in my mind.
—Heartwork

So, how's that look Nathan? Heartwork AND Psych are in agreement that you physically grabbed my neck. Haha.

I'm not too sure about Psych but I do not know why Heartwork is a coach. I am his former student, I simply asked for a sixty dollar refund, it was originally one hundred dollars but he mentioned a limousine ride we took to get there and supposedly my share of it was forty dollars which I don't believe but whatever, so I subtracted forty from it. It was sixty dollars and it was still very clear he was unwilling to pay even that amount, which was really just thirty dollars if Heartwork and Psych each split up the sixty. They make literally over 10 times that amount PER student PER boot camp. That got me pretty curious.

Then recently Heartwork got really drunk and so did Vin DiCarlo's trainer Brian, and they both had a slapping contest with each other while they were both drunk. Heartwork got hit so hard he got knocked out. Then when Jared attempts to question Psych about this on the podcast, Psych defends Heartwork. Really? A 20 year old who gets drunk on a regular basis, neglects and ignores his former students, refuses refunds for bad training, and gets in literally a slapping contest with another trainer, gets knocked out, and goes to the hospital to get stitches... Is still a quality trainer? I'd personally say no. And no Heartwork, you can't deny this fact. It is on film, why would you be dumb enough to let people video-record your slapping contest anyways? That's almost as dumb as Nathan grabbing my neck in a crowded room full of credible witnesses and then denying it a couple weeks later. Just pure ignorance.


Hey, how about this statement from my buddy, the one you intentionally cockblocked all night during the bootcamp you did with Psych, right before he fired you.This guy is "Xtothea420", also a member of my local lair.

I could care less about the drama, but I was asked by a fellow lair member to back him up, I WILL back him up. I felt a strange vibe from Nathan as with other lair members. I could really care less about him. Through befriending him, I have noticed he has a very strong tendency to pester people on buying Psych's product. I tell him I have no money. Here is the text shared:

Nathan: U need to make getting this area of your life taken care of a priority
Me: If only you knew my friend...if only you knew
Nathan: I know its tough. A credit card min payment is like $20/mon. 2 drinks/mon. to have success with women is not affordable? R u serious? =[

After telling him I possess no credit card, job, and I live with my parents, he still persists by cutting me a discount: from $600 to $500. I tell him I will decide within 24 hours. I tell him I cannot make it. He is a salesman. I can understand why he is so persistent so I shrug off the negative aspect of his character.

Fast forward to Saturday. I show up to Ibar as Psych's bootcamp is underway. I tell Psych I am NOT trying to intrude. I have friends there who are and aren't in the bootcamp who I would like to chill with. After a few hours of hanging with everybody I notice HBfishnet. I open the set by myself, hook, and then bounce. She wants to meet my friends so I introduce her to Nathan. Nathan notices I'm with her, after all I just introduced you to her. He shakes her hand and runs kino....I'm thinking "alright, work your magic lets see what you've got". I continue conversation with a fellow lair member taking the bootcamp. He wants to tell me something, but he doesn't want to say it with Nathan around. I shrug it off and think nothing of it. Later in the set, I take my target back. Next thing you know there are guys coming out of the wood work AMOG'ing me. I FINALLY hear what my friend was trying to tell me when Nathan was near us. Here is the text, word-for-word:

"that Nathan guy was getting mad when he saw u with that girl, called u a chode who's not on the bootcamp and was telling ppl to amog u. he claims he fucked her".

Still to this day, I don't give a shit. If he wishes to try to steal sets from others and then blame it on the individual thats fine. Have fun doing it in NYC, I no longer have to hear from you.
—Xtothea420

Or how about this statement from my buddy, he's going to get pissed at me for posting this but I can't allow your lies to keep spreading Nathan ol' buddy. By "BuckNut", member of TopLair, the Central Florida Lair.

The night I put a down payment down at HOB a week earlier I had no intention of doing a bootcamp but did it mainly because I was impressed with the feedback of doing sets with a microphone and the price of 395 for 3 intense days of training; because I know most bootcamps are like 600 to 5000 dollars so that did me in. He pressured me by saying each day it goes up 100 dollars and that "I need to do get this part of my life taken care of" our bootcamp will take 6 months off your learning curve.

I then researched and saw psyche was more of a natural game which I don't feel I need right now; and remember doing sets with the other kid from New York that was like their most loyal student and remember how bad he sucked and also felt like it would mean a lot to spend more time on vacation with my relatives who took time off

I told Nathan Saturday night this at Ibar; he seemed a little frustrated at first and then he put a microphone on me and had me do more sets and spent like an hour with me. He said he saw great improvement in me already from one week; and that he thinks I can be really good and he enjoys working with me; I just need to take the bootcamp to get over the hump; that my only other options would be go to new york a week later or wait two years till they come back to orlando. Kept repeating that I have hit a plateau and I need to get this part of my life taking care of and the bootcamp will do it and that if I want to be good bad enough I will find a way to make it happen. Then he saw Pysche outside who was debating coming in and told him to get in there and then whispered to pysche. Pysche came in and said listen I was already planning all these exercises for you after we spoke about your sticking points. If u say u are having trouble keeping the conversation going give me 3 days and u will be fixed; i will get u to be more exciting in set I have wrote a book on it; etc.. I will take 6 mnths off ur development and u have to make this happen and get this part of you taken care of if you want it bad enough. Tell ur cousin u are doing this too improve yourself he would think it's awesome; You can make it happen; he basically got in my grill and kept talking with straight on body language and deflecting my no's until I said I would do it.

---------sunday I was still a little unsure but was going to do it and then after I spoke to u I was sure no I am not doing it. Told nathan this as well I still couldn't do it sunday and he brought me to sit on a couch and kept repeating the same stuff as before; acting confused as to why even though i was telling him my vacation situation.

Then Eric aka turntrable said no dude your doing it and gave me like a 10 minute speech; like it would mean a lot to have u there; i went to the beach with these guys and I think they are great guys; it will take our game to a whole new level. stop giving me excuses i know u can do it listen as a friend it would mean a ton to me if u were there; u are doing it. Chris never said much but was a little upset like "why" when I told him I wasn't going.

Nathan then spoke to me again after psyche's speech and had psyche come up and psyche goes "i thought we already discussed this yesterday". kept pushing said we will be doing over 200 sets individually blah blah blah......I've gamed with Sinn, with everybody; my style fits anyone I don't care if u use routines; I will personally coach u and make sure you improve. I'm not sure why I said it at this point but I said I had heard bad things--- maybe because they were not taking no for an answer on anything else I told them.

At that point I just started getting all these guarantees and about how it was a different team last year; put there arm around me said let's go to the ATM and started walking and trying to ensure me the whole time....... so sad to say but I did end up doing the course. And then after I saw him come up straight to u and threaten to sue I felt some buyers remorse like I have just found out the true answer.

I will not be afraid to post about how I did not learn anything if that becomes the case and say I do not recommend it.

----I think I should of gotten the cue one when I realized they were going to be dicks about giving my 100 dollars back due to a family/flight situation and two---being high pressure and not giving me space. That should of been all i needed right there.

But it is a learning experience.
—Bucknut

If you keep spreading your lies, I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

And in the unlikely event that you gather enough balls to get on the podcast and try to defend your unjustifiable actions and lies that you've done so far, I will get on the same podcast too at the SAME TIME and keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

Just try spreading your lies on Jared's podcast while I'm also on the line to clarify whatever bullshit lies you're spitting man. I will keep your lies in check Nathan PUA.

I'm not letting you guys trick another person nor am I going to let anybody else go through what I went through. You're not going to get away with this. Except with anybody ignorant enough to know about all this and after having read all of this, still decide to be affiliated with you, I sincerely pity anybody like that of course.

Going to quote Manwhore on what he wrote about me here on the RSDnation forum.

Let's not turn this into internet KJ town.

When homeboy sounded off on this nathan dude the entire convention shut the fuck up. I conducted training for hundreds of Soldiers in urban operations.. I know the sound of shock n awe. I'm sure "nathan pua" poo'ed his pants on the spot and learned a valuable lesson.
—Manwhore

It's funny how you can grab my neck because I'm busy paying attention to a Q&A panel up front but when I get in your face and confront you about it, you just shut the fuck up and call me "crazy" and say that I "have anger issues" and that I "need counseling." Very classy of you man. Stay classy man.

Oh, and another thing, next time you see me... Feel free to grab my neck again. See what fucking happens.

For legal reasons, nothing I have written here is a threat in any way, shape, or form. I am not affiliated with BradP or any other companies as well.

Have a nice day.
:)

Random Notes on “The Syndicate”

My previous two posts were mostly discussing parallels between the seduction industry and the Internet marketing industry. If you are so inclined, please also check out some of the blog comments of the original article over at Salty Droid. There are many interesting comments to be found, especially due to the overlap of those two industries.

At the time of writing this, Salty Droid’s "The Internet Marketing Syndicate" had 591 comments. I have skimmed those and you may want to, if you have an interest in learning how those scammers operate, since some more techniques get exposed there. Unsurprisingly, there are further parallels to the way the seduction industry works, and there is plenty of “gold” in it. Also, if you dig around deeper at this site, you will find hilarious posts such as one by Ross Jeffries (!), calling out Internet marketer Ryan Geiss because that guy’s product “didn’t work”. I wonder whether Ryan Geiss is bitching somewhere else on the Internet that Ross Jeffries products didn’t help him either.

Furthermore, some days after the publication of the original article, Salty Droid released a “best of” of the comments, and this article has now attracted 135 more comments itself.

The Marketing Syndicate and the Business Cycle of the Seduction Industry, Part II

In the previous post I have discussed the parallels between the Internet marketing scene and the seduction industry. The last quote I used was:

The Syndicate keeps prices high :: and dissent low. The Syndicate all but eliminates marketplace competition. (…) The Syndicate uses tough :: tasteless :: and intimidating tactics to defend against what it sees as threats to its unrightful domain.

So far I have only elaborated on the “keeps prices high” part. Of course they also want to keep dissent low, which is why you will get attacked if you question “generally accepted truths”. I don’t have to remind you of the lame actions of Formhandle from mASF took against me and some of my friends. For instance, you will find names such as “Sleazy” and “TVA” highlighted and linked to a page that contains his tasteless “defense” of his bruised ego. Some of his accusations are:

Creating "posses" or cliques of people (almost like a mini-cult) to sling ill-will as a group, constantly challenging what is otherwise common sense to the vast majority of others in the forum, or spurring flame-wars for the sake of creating drama to fuel ulterior motives.

Of course, having some of the most respected members of that forum speak out aggressively against “the common sense of the vast majority” is not good for business. Much better would of course be if we all wrote panegyrics to highlight the many "accomplishments" of the teachings of Love Systems et al. Telling people that they can get laid easily, without practicing lame “routines” and socializing for hours can’t be tolerated. Of course, a website that is plastered with ads from all major companies would sabotage itself if it allowed dissent. It would simply threaten their revenues. Probably we did and that’s why we’ve gotten the boot. In all honesty, I was surprised it took so long to get ostracized. I had actually expected this to happen soon after I posting my classic article “Is the PU industry a sham industry? Some observations.”

If you want to see further parallels, here is a traffic chart from the Internet marketing world:

Salty Droid goes on to explain:

These are the traffic spikes from the launches of five recent Syndicate frauducts. Andy Jenkins :: Frank Kern :: John Reese :: Jeff Walker :: and Ryan Deiss.  This same precise pattern can be traced back to 2005{ish} … no competition allowed!

And now think about what’s happening in the Seduction industry: scheduled releases and cross-promotions. It doesn’t stop here, though. The Internet marketing scene has its own syndicate, gathering in their private forums and plotting to scam the biggest numbers of people, and so does the seduction industry, where there is also a “secret” group, made up mostly of instructors. There are two, as far as I know of, but one is dead because the members were afraid the others would “steal their material”, and on the other forum they don’t talk much about seduction anymore but instead about ways to make money and how to keep in shape. A cynical comment from a guy in Chicago was that this was because they are all broke and out of shape.

So much for discussing parallels between those two groups. While in the case of the Internet marketing syndicate I expect lawsuits and crackdowns to follow, it may take a while until the seduction industry gets to this point. In the meantime, I expect to not only see less high-profile releases (“product launches”), but a lower price level in general, since the market has become too crowded.

There was a recent trend towards continuity programs like forum subscriptions with monthly payments, including some unethical elements like so-called forced continuity, something I discuss in greater detail in Debunking the Seduction Community. Also, readers have pointed me towards a new gimmicky offering. A German company now offers a “flat rate” for workshops. You put down 2.000 EUR and can attend all workshops for a year for a nominal fee of 20 EUR, and the reasoning behind it is apparently that people pay the inflated fee once and then get too tired of travelling to the various cities. In any case, this industry seems to run out of steam.

The Marketing Syndicate and the Business Cycle of the Seduction Industry, Part I

Salty Droid recently ran a couple of very interesting posts about a syndicate of Internet marketers. Given the close relationship between “gurus” in the seduction industry and Internet marketers --- it is often said that Internet marketers are the gurus of the seduction marketers ---, those findings are indeed revealing and can be used to draw many parallels. If you have followed the seduction industry for a while, a lot of it will sound eerily familiar to you.

Here is Salty Droid’s take on the Syndicate:

The Syndicate is a cartel at the center of the get rich quick world of Internet Marketing. Each of the members tries to pass himself off as a freewheeling entrepreneur. (…) Each sells a version of this easy freedom in a bottle to seekers … the sadder the seeker … the better. But the dream :: like the cake :: is a lie. Success in “the industry” correlates not with value :: individuality :: or effort … but with proximity to a toxic core whose basic operations constitute a serious felony and moral failing.

In plain language this means that we have Internet marketers A, B, C, …, N who all have their own special products that cater for a certain problem. But the seduction industry does not have people worrying about improving their “click-through rate” but instead minimizing the number of flaky phone numbers, which then gives rise to a 3 DVD set with the title “No Flakes!”, co-created by Vin DiCarlo, one of my long-time favourites. Maybe Vin should start to work out if he gets too many flakes.

Of course this level of specialization only started after the big categories like “routines-based game” and “direct game” were filled, in addition to whatever it is that Real Social Dynamics is advocating. Then there was a focus on “day game” and the online game fraction is getting bigger, too.

If you have been around for a while, you might have noticed that there was always a release to look forward to. Neil Strauss aka. Style released his “Annihilation Method”, Venusian Arts their “Mind of Mystery”, and Mehow had his “Infield Exposed”, which is easily the most bizarre stuff I have ever seen. Then another crop of people turned up. Suddenly PUATraining and “Gambler” were pushing products. By that time people were telling me that if you have signed up for one guy’s newsletter, you suddenly got bombarded by emails in which other products were being pushed as well. This was arguably the phase when cross-promoting (affiliate marketing) got popular.

By that time people seemed to slowly wake up to all the nonsense those companies spout out. Of course, if there is a ton of competition you better differentiate yourself and find your own niche. However, for the amount of money some people charge for a scaminar seminar on “how to pickup strippers” you could directly spend it on the strippers yourself --- and have sex with them until you are getting sick of it.

But back to “The Syndicate” and Salty Droid:

The Syndicate keeps prices high :: and dissent low. The Syndicate all but eliminates marketplace competition. (…) The Syndicate uses tough :: tasteless :: and intimidating tactics to defend against what it sees as threats to its unrightful domain.

The comment about price-fixing was true at least until recently. While Neil Strauss wanted to sell his “Annihilation Method” DVDs for close to $4.000, which is downright obscene, others were a bit more modest and just charged the comparatively modest sum of two grand. Unfortunately for our sad bunch of seduction gurus, the Seduction Market is much smaller than the market the Internet goo-roos want to serve, which presumably includes a lot of wannabe seduction gurus. For this reason you still have the Internet crowd trying to charge two grand for their "products", but the seduction gurus either stopped producing DVDs or lowered the prices drastically. Some people now sell their DVD sets for less than $200, which is still an extremely high figure given production costs. Others such as Real Social Dynamics have stopped releasing “programs” altogether, which is a shame since I was so eagerly looking forward to the stuff that was supposed to be released after the “Blueprint” and “Flawless Natural”. RSD claimed it would “really blow your mind”, but I guess it won’t anymore. Shame on all those "piratefags".

To be continued...