Sunday, April 15, 2012

Oh, the Controversy!

My recent article Why Cold Approaching is Pretty Much Useless caused quite a stir. On Reddit, I had PUA shills go for my throat, on my blog another shill showed up, trying to convince some of us by changing his story to accommodate our objections. It was a sight to behold.

On PUA Zone, a forum I occasionally check, Keyboard Jockeys and guys who get laid fought it out. I got great support from those who know what pussy feels like, while the others dreamt up bizarre objections (some of which I'll address in a follow-up post). They apparently neither read nor understood my article.
To my great surprise, JWS, with whom I had clashed heads a couple of times on the old mASF forum, asked the nay-sayers some critical questions, too. I was especially pleased to see him point out that there are strong commercial interests tied to the "cold approach" paradigm. After all, if you don't get laid after a workshop, and the gurus tell you you should, what's more obvious than shelling out a couple more grand for more coaching? JWS made an excellent point, and I was glad he had made it. I hadn't considered it because I wanted to abstain from bashing the seduction industry yet again. On the other hand, every time you want to talk common sense, some shills jump on you anyway, so I might as well have addressed it in the first place.

If I am not mistaken, the thread I had started on PUA Zone is now the longest thread in the history of that forum, with something like two dozens of pages of replies. If you have the time, maybe have a look just to see the bizarre arguments people try to make to defend indiscriminate cold approaching. At the very least, though, please read on for the feedback of CharlesDexterWard, who allowed me to reproduce his comment on my blog. (The original comment is here.) Anybody who is not a PUA shill, not a commercial PUA, and not brainwashed, but simply wants to lead a healthy life and get laid will surely agree with what CharlesDexterWard has to say.

I'm so happy I found this thread. Last month I've been going out regularly in order to learn how to cold approach women in clubs, so that I can get my love life under control.
It has made me really, really unhappy.
Before reading this, I was slowly coming to many of the conclusions presented here by Sleazy and JWS.
Why did I decide to go cold approaching in clubs at all? I used to be quite good once upon a time. I was the "silent killer" Franco talked about: I saw women in the midst of everything, and they saw me. Like count Vlad in Bram Stokers movie. I got laid with new women quite frequently, but some of them were social circle, others were online, and some were actually from the clubs I went to.
I felt very powerful and in control of my life at this time. Of course, I failed with some really attractive women, but it didn't bother me that much. The power came from two things:
1) Living an awesome life. My current period of not feeling very awesome has encouraged me to analyze what I was doing with my life. I had passions, that allowed me to feel I was learning and growing. I practiced muay thai, later brasilian jiu-jitsu. I learned difficult songs on the guitar, I sculpted miniatures of ancient warriors and beasts from scratch. I bought a helmet and went riding (maybe I should become gay?)
2) I never ever went out to "cold approach" or "pick up women". I went out to spend time with people I liked, who inspired me. Usually I got entangled in new social circles, or a conversation with a previously unknown attractive woman just started naturally.
Point 2 takes a bit of courage. It requires that one stops trying and lets things take their natural course.
It is also a good idea to practice gartitude for what you have. Many people are clueless, or suffer from diseases.


  1. It was painful skimming those threads...

    These people STILL don't get what you mean by "indscriminate cold approaching us useless" - they a) COMPLETELY misunderstand it and then b) freak out about their own misunderstanding

    I think the fact that they miss the subtleties in your communication is an obvious indicator that they lack real world experience.

    They of course say "Well, if we misunderstood Aaron, then it's his fault". Sure, but how did all of the experienced guys know exactly what you mean?

    That said, yes, you do write in a way that inexperienced people will misunderstand, so it is "kind of" your fault that you don't dumb it down or spell it out more.

    Here's what johnny responded

    Most people disagreeing with it seem to have completely missed the point of the post which is that you shouldn't approach strangers indiscriminately. Either approach people who seem open in general or people who seem interested in specifically you. Don't approach randomly.

  2. There's quite a few moronic ideas in those response-threads, but one of the most idiotic ones are these two:

    "You need to first sarge for 2 hours before you start seeing IOIs"


    "Aaron you hipocrite!! You and others spent years doing indiscriminate approaching which helped you pick up signals of availability better, now you want to stop others from doing it not realizing it was the years of creeping women that made you calibrated!"

    No... you don't need to spend 5 years creeping 10,000 women to get a calibration for which chicks are open to meeting men or talking to people... sigh...

  3. I did have a browse of that site. And there were a lot of weirdness there, so I did not spend to long on it. It is very addictive doing pua forums.


    1. Which is why I do what John said he does, the first moment I am linked to one of these dumbass sites, I might skim it, but then it immediately goes on my block list so I can't even open it.

      Aaron's blog is the only non-blocked site I have on this general topic.

      -> It's very hard to resist not responding to these people

      -> It's like seeing someone running toward an open manhole and about to fall in

      -> Everything in you says to yell "watch out!!!! manhole"

      -> But you know they then start arguing "there is no manhole"

      And before you know it you have lost 2 hours of your life arguing with an idiot.

  4. Aaron, what do you make of PUA Justin Waye. He's a short black guy and he's regularly pulling model-calibre middle class white girls through cold approach on the streets of New York. He has proof of his lays on his blog.

    1. There's nothing special about Justin Wayne. Of course, occasionally he'll bump into a girl that feels like going "slumming", but that's quite normal. Ask any black guy and I'm sure he'll tell you that he's had white girls pining for his cock.

      Also, for background info, check out this:
      ..meaning that Justin Wayne certainly does not "consistently" pull model-calibre middle class white girls.

  5. "meaning that Justin Wayne certainly does not "consistently" pull model-calibre middle class white girls"

    How do you know he doesn't? There's enough proof on his blog.

    1. Are you retarded or just pretending? Do you know what the word consistently means in this context?

      1) What part of his website shows the chicks that reject him?
      (if he creeps 245 chicks to get 5 ugs and one hottie, is that "consistently getting hotties"?)

      2) Where exactly are the droves "model-calibre" chicks on that link? Most of them are average chicks, with only TWO that are an 8s (maybe 9s depending on your taste). But the point is even off of his site the vast majority are average and within his league.

      Here is his latest "model-calibre" girl...

      Unless you mean "model-calibre makeup"? This is the only chick on his blog in 7 months of posting... If this guy is doing the amount of creeping this guys defend (dozens of random chicks a day), multiply that by 210 days... and this is the result:

      Seriously!?!?!?!? And he couldn't have been hit on or asked out by her at yoga class either? She's completely in his league. Especially if she's into black guys (which a lot of women are).

      Do you have ANY IDEA how much you guys embarass yourself by thinking that a 7 guy getting a 7 girl is an amazing feat (after creeping hundreds of girls for 7 months). Do you REALIZE what you're admitting whenever you're showing awe by such a feat?

    2. Daygamer,

      if this chick is "model calibre", then I ejaculate pixie dust and shit gold bricks.

    3. Alek & Aaron, have you seen the girl in this Justin Wayne video?

      She's gorgeous. Model-calibre.

    4. I only had a look at the chick Alek linked to, but now I skimmed the page with "droves of model calibre women". Justin Wayne calls the following "“NYC MODEL GIRL”:

      Make up your own mind, but in my view you have to be seriously deluded to publicly pronounce that this girl is "model quality". This is a jab at Justin Wayne, of course, and if anyone following his blog thinks that this girl is "model quality", then it tells a lot about their love life. Frankly, she is hardly the kind of girl you'd boast about having banged.

    5. The blonde is cute. But maybe read Alek's post again. You are just not getting it. The other women he posts about are not that great, though.

    6. I just skimmed Justin Wayne's "products" section. He's just doing what any other PUA does as well. His only selling point is that he charges less. Oh, and he does offer "CUSTOMIZED MATERIAL DESIGN : $1 000 (this is what you say, when, how, etc)"

      It's always the same stuff. Only the faces of the guys are different.

    7. Alek & Aaron, have you seen the girl in this Justin Wayne video?

      She's gorgeous. Model-calibre.

      She is, and the video is two years old.

      Do you get it? In 2 years of creeping thousands of chicks, all he has to show for it are a a page of dozen average girls, two cute chicks and one hottie?

      Again, it's about the NUMBERS. If he can get that blonde every night, that'd be impressive. If he can get one like that once a week, that'd be impressive.

      Creeping thousands of chicks, and having it work once every years - that's well within the randomness of assortative mating. Average guys doing "I like you, can I take you to cofee sometimes" method also occasionally luck out and get a chick out of their league.

      DO YOU GET IT? Consistently in this context means "above chance" "above pure luck" "above randomness".

      A guy going "do you like me, I like you, want to come home with me" will get a hottie every few hundred approaches too. What PART of this do you not get?

    8. Aaron & Alex,

      Let's be sensible - Justin Wayne isn't blogging about EVERY lay he gets, there are many lays he doesn't blog about.

      The facts are:
      - Justin Wayne is short, black, and of disadvantaged economic status.
      - Justin Wayne regularly has sex with attractive middle-class and upper middle-class women whom he meets during the day on the streets.
      - Justin Wayne has proof of his lays.

      Wouldn't this refute the notion that cold approach is useless?

    9. Let's be sensible - Justin Wayne isn't blogging about EVERY lay he gets, there are many lays he doesn't blog about.

      And he still chose to post mediocre examples?

      So we have to assume that:

      -> He only chose to share a tiny percentage of his results
      -> And he chose to share mediocre examples

      IF HE REALLY WAS ONLY SHARING THE RARE GEMS - wouldn't he maximize and only share his HOTTEST examples? You want us to believe he is hiding his regular hotties, but sharing the occasional average girls?

      Justin Wayne is short, black, and of disadvantaged economic status.

      What does that have to do with anything? He's not marrying anyone. He's not getting chicks that are TALLER than him.

      Being black is an advantage to a lot of chicks who want to get laid.

      - Justin Wayne regularly has sex with attractive middle-class and upper middle-class women whom he meets during the day on the streets.

      Define "regularly".
      And you admitted he has no proof of regularity.

      - Justin Wayne has proof of his lays.

      You should totally be a politician. You performed a bait and switch.

      Just a few lines before you said he has proof of only (some) a tiny fraction of his lays.

      Nobody is claiming that he is celibate and that he has never banged a girl. THE ISSUE here is does he get ANYTHING above random chance.

      Every man on the planet who is not celibate (what, like 99% of guys) has proof of his 7 lays too. And you're in awe of this?

      He has to show he gets anything OUT OF THE ORDINARY. Do you GET THIS?

      Wouldn't this refute the notion that cold approach is useless?

      Dude, if you stretch the definition of useful, you can claim that anything is useful, and that nothing on the planet is useless.

      When SOMEONE uses the word "useless" it's in reference point to the productiveness of other more common methods.

      When someone says that doing 10 hours of cardio a day is useless HE IS NOT SAYING THAT YOU WONT LOSE WEIGHT DOING 10 HOURS OF CARDIO - OF COURSE YOU WILL -> What we mean when we say that doing 10 hours of cardio is useless is that there are methods that are so much more productive that it makes the 10 hours of cardio look silly.

      DO YOU GET IT? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD "USELESS" MEANS? IT DOESNT MEAN "never produces any results". It means "unproductive", "ineffectual", "inferior", "of low productivity".

  6. (Sorry, my browser on this PC is fucked up, so I am not able to reply in-thread)

    Now I have not been through Justin Wayne's blog nor do I plan to, but seriously, if the blond girl is the best he has pulled in a long time, then I think 2-3 of the girls I have dated can be safely classified as beauty pageant winner quality. Could be a type thing though.

    Also, if those are the kind of girls he brags about, that too in New York City - then guys, seriously, check out a few dance lessons. I am very serious.

    This makes me feel even worse about my decision to get into PUA though.

  7. Here the original page in which Sleazy posted I was also surprise JWS agree

    Justin Wayne offer himself for a challenge Sleazy and I pointed him out to .And I highly doubt he will try the experiment Seductionnmyth has offer to any PUA out there hes calling out it will put an end to the delusional gamer"s Justin Wayne claims he has skills his videos are like any other PUA"S he only shows you when he picks up a girl but not his failure he must be an approach machine .Even though he doesn't admit that I also heard from a blogger here he hardly picks up pretty girls he fucks anything in sight I wouldn't be surprise if that the truth PUA"s love calling regular and below average girls HB"S

    here is the link Sleazy calls him out on page 3 or 4 and I call him out on page 6 If Justin Wayne is so skillful then he should accept the challenge Seductionmyth has to offer

  8. And man, talking about the blond girl - once again, it could be a type thing, but her dressing sense is just too trashy for my liking. Every girl I have dated, they have all been way more classy than her.

    For some reason these pics and videos have hit me really hard and this is just a suggestion to guys who still continue to randomly cold approach. For this quality of women, getting rejected is just not worth it. You will guaranteed get much better women through dance lessons and the like. For sure.

    And no wonder I was getting rejected so much. The girls I was approaching, given by what I have seen here, Justin Wayne would probably call them super models.

  9. I have not checked out Justins blog, and I cant be asked, dont need more info as i know everything (which is very little) to have a decent sex life. But checking the photos in the comment section, the girls are not bad, I would not class them as top models. But maybe it is his type and he thinks they are gorgeous.

    Having checked out the puazone forum, I am amazed that people believe that all it takes is self belief and stopping limiting beliefs to get women.

    I believe there is a difference between hooking up with a girl for sex and being in a relationship with a girl. Both require different qualities. As Sleazy says, getting a girl for sex is all about instant judgements on her part. So anyone can hook up with girls, as long as you find a girl who is into you.

    I have messed up with girls, said the wrong things etc, but cause the girl was into me, she gave me another chance. It was not because of game or skill, it was because she was into me first and she wanted me and wanted something to happen. All I had to do was make a move and not fuck it up too badly.


    When people see guys with girls who are out of their league, it could be too reasons, 1 he is her sexual type, or 2 he is her type long term. We dont know which is which.

  10. Hey guys

    I'm the same guy who posted here anonymously and had the 300-400 cold approaches. At the end of the day I dont think anybody is changing. I'm not doing cold approaches anymore since they are flat out ineffective. Coincidentally enough, when I was complaining to my friends that meeting girls in bars suck*, they just told me to take dance lessons...well now things are coming full circle. If CDG wants to stick to cold approaches then more power to him.

    * I probably have only about 5 hours of experience being in a bar, but based on what I have seen, it's just other guys competing for low value girls (overweight, cougar, ugly with tight clothing/makeup, all of the above, etc). I actually had the opportunity of bumping into this hot girl who rejected me in a bar, only to see her without the makeup and clothing in the day time.

  11. Respect to all those entitled to it, but I really start not getting this anymore...

    The whole "Justin Wayne" discussion is theoretical bullshit.
    Even more so is bitching back & forth about what's model quality or not.
    For those who really care to settle that debate : If someone manages to get Janice Dickinson in here, she'll tell us right away.

    1. Well nobody can be as superior as you Paalcopronst, because as we know when others debate, it is "bitching", however if you endulge others with your presence and the gift of your theoretical arguments - this is a holy gift.

      Cut the BS - either everything is theoretical bitching, or nothing is. This douchebag in question claimed to get results that beat assortative mating, people deposited evidence, others are pointing out the invalidity of that evidence.

      Again, either everything is silly bitching theoretical bullshit (in which case why you're here) or only when Paalcopronst chooses to be part it's not...

  12. I wasn't out to insult, or to claim superiority over anybody. And definitely not over you, Mr Novy.

    I was merely expressing surprise over the direction yet another thread managed to take.
    Certainly after all what has been posted on PUAZone.
    Apparantly I went overboard with the way I worded it.
    My apologies to you personally.

  13. I saw your link on Reddit and barely anyone had anything to say. What are you talking about?

    1. Let me explain the beginning of the article: "caused at stir" is followed by thee examples: Reddit, PUA Zone, and comments on my blog. Just add it all up. On Reddit, there was the least amount of discussion, which is also why I only briefly commented on it, and then I wrote about the sites where there was more activity.

      Get it?


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