Sunday, April 8, 2012

Why Cold Approaching is Pretty Much Useless


One of the basic ideas of the pickup community is the necessity of “cold approaches.” Often, you could get the impression that anything else doesn’t really count. Real PUAs go through hundreds of rejections before they finally get to enjoy the fruit of their labor. This is at least as the shared mythology goes.

In this article, I will show you that the concept of cold approaching is misleading. Please keep your pitchfork in your barn, because if you read on with an open mind, you will not only learn something about about male-female interactions, but you will also understand why, as guys gain more experience, their “batting average” often goes up significantly. No, it is not because their “game” got better. It’s something else.


Depending on the amount of community brainwashing you have undergone, it may be hard for you to swallow that success due to a genuinely cold approach does not exist. It is only due to ignoring or misinterpreting social cues that a guy thinks he got laid off a cold approach. Feel free to disagree with me later, but please read on, and carefully consider my point. In the end, you may even find that you agree with me.

I recently had an exchange with a commercial pickup coach in the comment section of my blog. In the article I had posted, I was mocking a rather illustrious character of the industry for wasting his time roaming the streets in his never-ending search for pussy. Success is not a friend of his. In the videos this guy posts, it is clear to see that the women normally aren’t interested at all and are only polite to him. The other aspect I pointed out was the absurd amount of time “sarging” takes. I met a handful of street gamers, and they all told me that their actual “conversion rate” (their terminology, not mine), was rather low.

Paul Janka, who is arguably the king of day game, says that he has sex with about 10% of the women whose number he gets. If you paid attention in middle school, you can deduce from this that the actual success rate is even lower since not all the women he approaches will give him their number. No, I do not want to bash Janka. I don’t know what he’s been up to recently, but my view of him is that he belongs to the very, very few honest dating coaches on this planet. Just keep the figure in mind for the following part.

Of course, there are ways to integrate “cold approaching” into your daily life, so that it comes at virtually zero cost. But once you free up time in your schedule to “sarge HBs”, the situation is much less favorable. I was mentioning a pickup coach who commented on my blog before. He said something like, “You may be right in general, but what if you have enough time for street game?” This is a nonsensical objection, and here is why:

You may think that you can take out one or two hours a day to do street game, and talk to girls who, for the very most part, will give you no indication that they have any interest in you. That’s of course because they don’t have any. I don’t care how good looking you think you are — most girls will just not be interested in you. (In me neither.) To increase your odds, you could therefore do something with your time you really enjoy. Surely, there is something that’s more compelling than getting rejected by one girl after another in streets and shopping malls.

The alternative is to pursue a social activity that allows you to easily meet women with whom you have something in common with. This instantly turns cold approaches into warm approaches! Let’s just compare two people: Pete PUA and Chris Common-Sense. Pete says to Chris, “Dude, you’re such a loser. You do gay shit like yoga and dancing, while I pickup chicks on da streets every day!!1” But what does Chris actually do? He enjoys yoga and find that it tones his body nicely. Because he really excels at it, there are plenty of hot girls around who give him fuck-me eyes. It seems that some “gay shit” like the crane pose easily gets him dates, and eventually laid.

Further, Chris likes music, especially tango. Salsa is not really his thing, so he doesn’t go there. But what happens at a typical tango class? Chris normally finds that there are about two girls for every guy, that the girls have on average more class than your random girl walking the streets (excuse the bad pun!). Even better is that some of those do indeed seem to be looking.

If you now think, “Sleazy, you’re just making this up!” I have to tell you that I don’t. I have spent about three years doing yoga, and it is my experience that is indeed fairly easy to talk to the girls there. You basically just have to go there. Of course, this only works if you go to classes because you like yoga, and not, like your typical PUA creep, to hit on girls. Dancing classes are just as excellent a venue to meet girls who already have something in common with you, but I won’t bore you with the details as it is just like in yoga. Even better is that you get to know the girls on a physical level. Just think of all the “kino” you could do, bro!

While Pete PUA spends much more time “sarging HBs”, his actual success rate will be fairly low. In the worst case, he’ll be like your average PUA and all the numbers turn out to flake. His buddy Chris, on the other hand, meets girls literally as an added bonus to acquiring interesting skills and staying in shape. After one year, he can probably start thinking about dancing tango competitively, while his buddy is at a risk of getting an account for Zan Perrions’s Ars Amatoria forum, where he can tell the crowd that he’s gotten one date out of about a thousand approaches, but that all is fine because he enjoyed making the girls feel desired. (I wish I had made this up.)

Let me deal with the objections I presume some of you will have.

1) “Geez, Sleazy, you built yourself a reputation as a club gamer, which was nothing but cold approaching! And don’t tell me you liked those places!!”

Indeed, I did enjoy the night clubs I went to. I loved the music, the crowd, and the ambience. With very, very few exceptions I did stay away from mainstream clubs. As people who want to get into some of my old hangouts week after week notice, the door man is indeed an obstacle, and the patrons are carefully selected. This was true for the indie/electro scene in London, and to a lesser extent it is true for the techno scene in Berlin. If the guy at the door doesn’t like you, you probably have to check out a mainstream venue afterwards.

However, what people who either don’t go out regularly, or who go out indiscriminately, not realize is that the guys at the door don’t reject people randomly. They only tell you to take a hike if you don’t fit into the crowd. Yes, “there’s too many guys inside” and “sorry, we’re full” are just excuses to allow you to save face. When I was once walking down to one of my favourite watering holes in Soho in London, and, after considerable time in the queue, thought I was about to get in, the door guy pulled me aside, and whispered, “Just stay here for a while. We’re a bit packed right now.” Seconds later, he was telling the next bunch of people the same old excuses. Bottom line: If you fit in, you’ll get in, and if you get in, you pretty much have a stamp of approval on your forehead, and will normally find it easy to talk to the people.

2) “But dude, cold approaching works. It really does! I just had a date last week, after hitting on 98 girls in a row. And just earlier today, I got seven more numbers.”

As I said above, the success rates for genuine cold approaches are very low. Of course, sometimes you’ll get a girl, and if you are Harvard-educated, and as eloquent and handsome as Paul Janka, you may end up banging then percent of all the girls whose number you get. However, as you get more experience in general, your ratio will usually go up a lot. This is not because you get “better at game” but because you learn to read signals better, and focus on girls who are potentially receptive. Thus, you skip all the questionable cold approaches. This is the truth behind cold approaches, and, to take a page out of the marketing book of PUAs, this is indeed “one of the truths PUAs don’t want you to know.”



The reason why you may now think that your game is decent and that you “convert x percent of your cold approaches” is just that you can’t yet read signals properly and approach indiscriminately. While you “run the same game” on every girl, you just happen to occasionally bump into one that just likes you. Since you are more concerned with your game than her reaction to your presence, you may miss that she’s been glancing over three times already. Being blind to the obvious, you think that “game” got you the girl. However, with a more perceptive eye, you’d have to do a fraction of the approaches, and will have a much better turnout.



All of this doesn’t mean that you’ll now suddenly get every girl, but by focussing on girls you have something in common with and who are potentially interested, you’ll do so much better. Heck, maybe pickup will even start to become fun for you, and stop being a source of constant frustration. It’s the warm approaches that eventually get you the girls. Your cold approaches get you barely anything, and the little you get feels like work, because it is. Just think of all the “shit tests” you have to “plow through” now… Imagine you’d instead be among women who think, “Hm… I wonder who that guy is!”

172 comments:

  1. Yup, this is the exact reason why I rarely cold approach anymore. It's all about recognizing the signals and recognizing which girls you have a realistic shot with. Great post.

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    1. Hey Aaron! I am not sure the suggestion of attending an activity works any more. Case in point: I have joined dancing classes, marathon events, and training event attended by women. Number one most of the female engaging in these events are young , married, and/ or have a boyfriend( the dance classes in NYC are full with women who fall into this category )! So please explain how a person stands a better chance of meeting/ dating in warm approaches? Keep in mind I engage in these activities for the purpose of being active... pick up is not even on my mind!

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  2. Funny tweet from Roosh earlier today -

    *A woman's job is to resist. A man's job is to pursue. If a woman is not resisting you, you're not a man.*

    You gotta love this stuff!

    *http://twitter.com/#!/rooshv*

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    1. Geez, Roosh's twitter accounts sounds like a decent source for laughter. For some, "plowing" must be inherently rewarding.

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  3. So Sleazy, do you approach women you pass by on the street and in shopping centres and stores if they look interesting and receptive? Or do you just not consider those to be cold approaches?

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    1. If they show interest, then those aren't really cold approaches, at least not in my definition. A cold approach is when the PUA thinks: "Man, that chick's hot (maybe replace with: There's a chick!), I gotta get in!" And when the little voice in his head says, "Dude, she seems in a hurry/not interested at all/to have a ring on her hand", he ignores those objections because he's either oblivious to those facts or because he believes in "game" and the power of "plowing".

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    2. One trick for women who are in a hurry and pass you on the street is a good old fashioned compliment or hello (without ever approaching).

      -> In general in cold contexts, the only good idea is to only approach women who seem receptive, open to being chatted up

      -> It's generally useless to open women in a hurry, looking closed off with "don't talk to me signs"

      The fear recovering PUAs have is that women in the second group might still be interested (which is true, an extremely tiny percentage could be closed yet interested in YOU specifically after you get them out of their funk through plowing).

      -> So in that sense, you can give those women chance too without approaching them. Just say hello and move on, or give a compliment and move on (don't even wait for a response). If she's interested, she'll track you down and hover around you or even re-open you herself later.

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    3. @aaron

      "If they show interest, then those aren't really cold approaches, at least not in my definition. "

      I think he meant receptive and open in general, not sending specific signals to you. For example a woman who's standing around with an open body-language, positive and smiling and sending signals she wants to talk to people (in general to the world, not you in specific).

      I think the fact that the community only distinguishes cold and not-cold is a disservice as well, since it paints things black and white. In truth there's

      Cold => A woman in an anti-social context (street?) acting like "talk to me and I will bite your head off"

      Lukewarm => A woman in an anti-social context acting like "I'm openand receptive to talking to people, I'm friendly!"

      Warm => A woman in an anti-social context keeps glancing at you, hovering around you, looking in your general direction etc etc

      Warm => A woman in a social context (all women in social contexts are warm no matter what)

      Hot => A woman in a social context staring you down etc...


      OR -> as I say in a comment at the bottom, we should move away from cold/not cold altogether.

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  4. Seriously Sleazy, I don't know if you have been reading my comments recently or my blog posts, but this is EXACTLY what I have been wanting to say. In fact, right now I have a blog post in draft in which probably the wording was going to be the same. Heck even the examples I was going to use the exactly same examples (I have done some salsa. Been doing a lot of tango recently, and have done some competitive Latin dancing). In a recent comment, I wrote exact the same thing.

    EVERYTHING you write is something which I have experienced and more. How cold approaching is potentially useless you do it in a venue you enjoy a lot! How the only way you end up resenting all the rejection is if it is genuinely integrated as part of your daily life (go out doing cold approaching when you are already out for something). How chicks are much more classy at a dance venue than some random mainstream club.

    In fact, now that I enjoy dancing, I would much rather spend time at a random class if I have nothing else to do, than go out cold approaching. At dance classes and parties, I have probably lost track of how many conversations I have initiated with the line "So how long have you been doing Salsa/Tango/Swing/whatever" or "how long have you been coming here". Also the ratio of men to women is amazing! I remember going to one salsa class where the ratio of women to men was - wait for it..... 25:2! I went to a Zumba class where the ratio was..wait for it once again.. 30:3!

    The only problem that happens when I go dance classes is that being a decent dancer, I get so many gorgeous girls who eye-fuck me because of which I tend to start thinking like a hot chick and get too sloppy and waste all the attention.

    Now compare this to a cold approach scenario which you probably don't enjoy the venue much, the only reason you are there are the women so of course rejection hurts, you are only able to get average chicks, that too you may not get more than a single night of bad sex, and that too might only happen once every few nights you go out - then well, I can't get myself to go for "pure cold approaching" anymore (sarging HBs)

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    1. Great minds think alike, Johnny! :)

      But please don't let this keep from posting your view on this issue. I am sure you'll have a different angle. The 25:2 ratio sounds ridiculous. Heck, and I felt bad when it was 2:1 and then the girls have to dance with each other. I surely never had to dance with a dude.

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    2. Do you often have to dance with fat chicks? That would be a bummer for me :)

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    3. Useful AnonymousApril 9, 2012 at 7:21 AM

      @Anon

      Fat people tend to feel insecure about dancing, so they don't ever sign up, or quickly give up. I know coz I gave up on dance earlier in life when I was overweight.

      As a fat person, even if you do have the confidence to sign up for dancing, you soon find out that you stick out like a sore thumb, because most people in it are either fit or VERY fit lol.

      Sign up for classes, you'll find they have an amazing array of really fit, hot women. Also you get involved with the general community (parties, cross-club promotions, you start going out with people in your dance club etc etc)...

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  5. Excellent article.

    I would go a step further and state:

    Warm approaches are dependent on the social environment.

    IF the environment is exclusive (private club with specific types/house party/wedding) then any approach will be a warm approach and girls will be more open to interact.

    If the environment is allows you to share a common interest/passion (classes/meetings etc) again the same as above, it will be a warm approach.

    The only problem with warm approaches, is that girls will tend to be friendly. So in a way you must look for the "approach invitations" or "fuck me eyes" if you want to separate the friendly from the sexually attracted. I find that you can force the girls to show their attraction via getting eye contact from a distance and seeing if she responds (probably best for clubs/parties and lots of people environments.)

    Or just escalating slowly when talking (long pauses/not letting go of handshake/moving closer/longer eye contact). If not interested you can always stop and just continue the normal conversation.

    Learning those signals are important too, and make approaching easier. Even if you mistakenly read the signal and get rejected. It does not become a chore. Plus girls are more likely to give signals in "warm approach friendly environments". I cant remember the link of the article, Illuminatus wrote a great article about signals that women give, it is in the forum somewhere.

    Plus warm approach environments, if you go a lot of these, gives you somethign to talk about with the people there. Instead of being stuck in a bar/club standing around looking bored, or at a mall walking around looking like a hunter out for his prey.

    Cani

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    1. Those are all excellent points! In a "warm approach" environment, you just use sexual tension. Even if they are all friendly, they probably won't tolerate if you invade their personal safety zone and stand much closer to them than is common in their culture. Also, I've found that there is a big difference between friendliness and sexual interest. Just think of when girls in such settings walk up to you and introduce themselves (which is perfectly normal in such a setting), and as you shake hands, they keep shaking your hand and staring into your eyes for such a long amount that it is almost bizarre.

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  6. Aaron, everything you said makes perfect sense. A couple of months earlier when I found you and Good Looking Loser and read about you, it was really liberating to just accept that not every girl will be attracted to me. Some will, many won't.

    "Warm approaching" feels a hell of a lot easier and more natural. Too bad there's so few girls in BJJ and MMA which I do, haha!

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    1. Then maybe start doing a different martial art on the side to round off your experience. I am not even joking as I think this makes perfect sense for people who are heavily into one kind of martial art. I've done Ju-Jutsu for a couple of years, and there was at least a minority of women, and in Aikido it was actually a sizable number. What's most interesting about martial arts is that women who are into you involuntarily give off those signals of submission. I bet some are heavily aroused when you throw them around.

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    2. ""Warm approaching" feels a hell of a lot easier and more natural. Too bad there's so few girls in BJJ and MMA which I do, haha!"

      -This can make it hard to go to other social activities, since the time frame you train jits/mma is a solid chunk of your evening and night. That's why i'm stuck going to bars and clubs. But if you actually fight mma, you should find it easy to pick up girls after your fight. After my last fight i had 4 girls approach me! Also, set your facebook up to showcase you as an mma fighter, and you should get girls who love fighters messaging you.

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    3. I don't compete yet, but I can believe some girls are really into guys who compete in sports like this.

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    4. jameso,

      in addition to taking up a lot of your time, martial arts practice also drains you physically. This is great, but it's not the best if you want to pick up girls afterwards. However, I have found girls in martial arts to be surprisingly open and forward. I guess those character traits made them sign up in the first place.

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Corollary to social contexts...

      "Approaching indiscriminately is very useful and recommended in social contexts (especially if it's just a social approach or mild flirting, not actual pickup attempts)."

      i.e. in a salsa party, go talk to and befriend everyone.

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    2. Your categories make more sense. I think this is yet another example where PUA language makes it harder to understand underlying processes. Speaking of strangers vs. social context or presence and absence of potential interest is much clearer, and everybody understands it.

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    3. I deleted the original, and am re-posting it with better wording:

      I posted this point at Johnny's, but I'll post it here too. I think there are problems with the term "cold approach" itself.

      Sometimes some people think the term "cold approach" means "talking to strangers". Some people think it means "talking to strangers without an IOI". Some think it means "meeting people outside of social circle"... etc... etc...

      I think it's much better to use terms like

      -> Approaching and talking to strangers

      Self-explanatory

      -> Indiscriminate approaching

      Indiscriminate approaching simply means: "approaching a random woman regardless of whether she seems like she is open to social interactions or open to people in general."

      -> Approaching based on interest signs

      This means approaching a woman based on her giving you signs directed specifically to you.

      Using these terms, which are a bit more clear, the points would look like this

      -> Approaching strangers indiscriminately in non-social contexts is completely useless and a complete waste of time.

      For example approaching a woman rushing down the street who has a "fuck off world" vibe, or a chick on the bus-stop who has a closed-off "fuck-you" vibe - has the lowest possible chance of working imaginable, and is not worth it

      -> Approaching a woman who seems generally open to interactions, can be useful even in you do it in non-social contexts

      Especially if this action is merely a spontaneous part of your regular life - chatting up bouncers, people at the bus stop, old ladies in the fruit aisle etc... etc...

      -> Approaching a stranger who shows signs of interest to you specifically is always a great idea, and always useful - no matter the context or situation

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    4. Alek, why did you restrict your blog?

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    5. Alek, why did you restrict your blog?

      It was always meant to be just for my online and offline friends, but people started sharing it, promoting it, and before I knew it I was getting tens of thousands of visitors.

      So I just made it what it was meant to be in the first place.

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  8. Aaron, long-time reader, first time commenter.

    I like your analytical approach to game but IMO you undersell the power of TACTICS. Meeting a complete stranger and building attraction + comfort while stone cold sober on the street in 10 minutes is an extremely advanced skill for the average-looking guy. And for many minority guys in America to stranger approach and lay hot young middle-class white girls would mean you’d have to rely almost entirely on TACTICS to score because you lack VALUE.

    But I have a buddy who’s into day game. Short, skinny, Sri Lankan, facially a 7 at best – no VALUE right? Approaches cute young white girls – gets blown out RIGHT?

    Wrong – this guy kills.

    Why?

    Tight tactical game. Mystery Method. This guy has an incredibly tight, scripted 10-minute routine stack that he spits on EVERY girl he approaches in his day game niche environment (college campus in a college town). The beauty of his stack is that while it’s all scripted material, it hits all the major attraction + comfort points in a short period of time. He uses several classic routines to great effect – the “is kissing cheating” opener, C vs. U smile, finger length etc. – while embedding his stack with subtle DHVs, negs, cold reads, qualification, comfort material etc.

    The MM routines are crack to chicks. It’s an emotional rollercoaster, a psychological mindfuck for girls. Moreover, this stuff is even more devastating during day game as he has complete control of the interaction, and (unlike in clubs) his girl isn’t distracted by cockblocks, smartphones, loud music etc. Moreover, he’s got his stack down now to a point where he doens’t worry about what he’s going to say as basically cruising on auto-pilot, and can focus on tonality and non-verbals like body language etc.

    And of the hundred or so college girls my buddy has approached using smoothly delivered pre-rehearsed material over the last few months, he’s been called out…. once.

    Here he is infield:

    http://tindeck.com/listen/nnvh

    http://tindeck.com/listen/xhop

    As Chris Rock put it astutely, a woman has made up her mind about whether she’ll fuck you within the first 10 minutes of meeting you. You want to maximize your utility from your approaches, get into that fuck-worthy pile, get the most bangs for the least time invested.

    IMO there are 3 styles of approaches:

    1. You can play a Paul Janka style numbers game, spending hours and hours approaching hundreds of women, invest minimally in the interaction, rely on model good looks as a source of VALUE, and collect lots of flaky numbers.

    2. You can be the guy that invests heavily in the interaction, wastes a lot of time on one particular girl, and lands in the friend-zone – the dreaded “20 minute set to nowhere”.

    3. Or you can do what my buddy does – open, deliver stack, get digits, GTFO. In <10 min. By this point you know whether she's either into you or she's not, there's no sense in wasting time prolonging the interaction. Quit while you're ahead and leave on a high note. With some tight text & phone game you will get the date.

    Your rap over the first 5-10 minutes is key. This is all the more so during day game cold approaches when there's little margin for error, and the slightest hint of hesitation and awkwardness can send the girl running. And even more so for average-looking guys who can't coast on their looks as a source of VALUE. So you need TACTICS.

    So going “natural” on a girl means you get 1 in 5 numbers while using scripted routines gets you 1 in 3, why not use what'll get you more lays at the of the day?

    Again, my “low VALUE” buddy is killing it in his niche environment (college campus) with his Mystery Method routine stack. He’s relying entirely on TACTICS and he’s having success.

    Aaron, I’m interested in your thoughts on this.

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    1. I'm not a guy who gets laid regularly, so take what I write with a grain of salt, but I would want to express my opinion on this anyway.

      I've had my fair share of female interactions during my "game" stage (which actually never considered using pre-scripted routines and mystery stuff, except some idiot lines I invented which I found amusing in and of themselves) and then went under the detoxification, like many around here I suppose. I now run a "game" which is totally random on the verbal side, with minimal to no tactics (I don't get laid mainly because I have a very thin social life and don't go out often).

      I observed that certain behaviors produce certain reactions under certain circumstances. Meaning that usually if I started a conversation with one of my idiot lines, there would be a general tendency on the girls' part to react in a certain number of ways (the laughter ensued, the puzzled looks, and so on) in a very predictable fashion. It was like seeing the same video clip many times.

      Being clueless about what to do afterwards, this hasn't led me to hookups but nonetheless gave me some insights about the predictability of interactions.

      Nowadays I don't always pickup, but when I do I never repeat myself. I swore to be true to myself and to be led by sheer inspiration (which I don't lack). But I still haven't gotten laid by approaching a stranger outside my social circle or in a club yet, so I can't tell if totally ignoring tactics and relying on looks and value may be a good idea.

      (Before someone legitimately points that out: I think my fundamentals are pretty much okay. I'm somewhat short (5ft8) but I have a very nice body, uncommon haircut which makes me stand out and compliments well my facial traits, and my sense of fashion is regularly complimented by girl acquaintances and friends. Also I get hit on by gay guys a lot, lol)

      So, while I'm not gonna say that looks don't matter and shit, I'm starting to think again that "tactics", or at least "doing shit in a way which is repeatable under certain circumstances (eg girl kinda likes me)" might not be a really shitty idea.

      On the other side, I also experienced what being enraptured by a girl feels like and all the natural actions that come with it. It's beautiful because you barely have to do anything consciously, the rest flows naturally. But it doesn't happen very often and, as good as it is, I feel like relying just on approaching girls I have this feeling towards might strongly limit my options (I feel like I might miss out on opportunities of girls who would have turned me on a little later in an interaction).

      So I'm adding a third pole to Curious Day Gamer's doubts: looks versus tactics versus inspiration. What's your take?

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    2. MM doesn't just stay for Mystery Method but also for mental masturbation. What you guys just don't get is that dishonesty shines through and, frankly, what good is a relationship that started with a bunch of lies ("routine stack")? You can drop your routines and get laid just as much. Try it.

      Regarding "inspiration": That's just another vague concept. Sure, with some girls you hit it off with, but it's not that you bore her with ten minutes of scripted lies, and that she then suddenly realizes, "Wow, that dude is so awesome!" Instead, it's either "on" in the first few moments of the interaction or not at all. An exception is when she is a gold digger and it takes her some time to roughly figure out your net worth. :P

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    3. OMG he is so good, I cant beleive he pulls such a hottie, she is like a HB 12 or 13. Damn he is the best I have ever heard, he puts mystery to shame. I wonder where I can learn all this become super cool dude getting tons of pussy and not having to go the gym?

      Damm, I Cant believe curiousdaygamer is advertising on here. At least do it better than that.

      Cani

      Dont put audio only, for all we know, she could be paid to follow along with this dude, we dont know what he looks like- he could be a fit guy with model looks. We dont even know what that girl looks like, what the situation is etc.

      Lets say this is for real. Which I highly doubt, but I will give it the benefit.

      How many girls did he approach? How many girls did he manage to fuck from those he approached? How many girls turned him down and where?

      Saying the same thing over and over again, is just saddest thing in the world. IT makes you a robot. You can say whatever is on your mind as long as you are not disrespectful or threatening or physcio weird. Relying on routines is just a blow to your self esteem, shows you dont trust yourself nor respect yourself.

      Value...What the fuck...the worst bullshit I have ever heard. A girl is into you straight away, you aint got ten minutes to change her mind, its on or its off. If you want to make her your girlfriend straight away, then of course show off your resume and personality, audition for the role, that is what most PUAs do.

      We dont even see any actions or getting physical. I am talking about fake touching or 20 different levels of kino (yes Dicarlo thats your bull shit). Does he get closer? Does he get and maintain eye contact? Is there sexual tension? Does he hold her hand, or put his hand around her waist and she lets him keep it there?

      I had enough bull shit...stop playing warcraft and get out of the PUA movement and get a life.

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    4. Aaron, you are implying that I'd vomit ten minutes of scripted lies to a woman. Maybe I didn't express quite well my concept of inspiration and tactics and, again, we tripped over a terminology and context issue. By inspiration I meant those situations which are loaded with sexual tension to the point that you barely have to "steer" your behavior and everything else clicks on its own (but these cases are, for me, very few and far between, hence my issue; and it's not about the girl, it's about me in the first place). And by tactics I meant general behavior and not a bag of scripted phrases. I mean, it's not like you jump in front of a girl and stand there scratching your nose and she suddenly pulls out your cock, you gotta at least do something - which doesn't comprise faking, deceiving and so on, clearly, at least not for me.

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    5. Aaron - who said anything about relationships? He's only interested in quick bangs with young hotties and he's found a way to do it.

      Delete
    6. Check this out:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_relationship

      "An interpersonal relationship is an association between two or more people that may range from fleeting to enduring."

      Delete
    7. Aaron - if MM routines are netting you a steady supply of digits, if your follow-up text/phone game is tight, and if your game is smooth enough to carry the interaction forward on the date and get the bang, why not use canned stuff that works during the initial interaction?

      So going natural on a girl means you get 1 in 5 flaky numbers while using scripted routines gets you 1 in 3 solid numbers, why not use what'll get you more dates and more lays at the of the day? Especially in 2012 when the odds of getting called out are next to none?

      Again, here's my short, skinny Sri Lankan buddy in set:

      http://tindeck.com/listen/vwsr

      Since you're a savvy, knowledgeable guy I'm interested in your critique of his approach. If he can elicit reactions like this and get quick bangs, why hate on his method?

      Delete
    8. Your Sri Lankan buddy doesn't happen to teach, does he?

      Seriously, it's been a while since someone dared to tell me such a crock of shit as you. Mystery Method is less efficient than "natural game". You end up repelling women who otherwise would have been into you, and in the few successful cases you waste much more time. And you tell a ton of lies as well, which is why people who rely on scripted routines normally find it extremely difficult to keep the girls around. I think I said so already.

      Delete
    9. Curious day gamer,

      If you really want to be believed, you are going to have a hard time doing so here.

      But if you want some help, get your sri lankan friend to video tape himself doing 100 approaches, and see how far he goes with it. Record all rejections, record the dates, record everything. Then if your so called "1 in 3" is true, then come back and show it with the proof.

      Only Good looking loser, did something similar, although not recorded, he did approach 100 girls write down what happened.

      Secondly, how do you know it is not something else that helps him get girls? Maybe he is rich and they see this straight away? MAybe he is good looking, fashionable, popular and that gives him the advantage? Are you sure that he actually sleeps with them? Or does he have to spend a few dates begging for it?

      cani

      Delete
    10. Yes, he gets laid from day game cold approaches. He's average looking at best.

      He's got his own pad and a car and a career. College girls are probably impressed by this.

      My Sri Lankan buddy is a normal dude who discovered that using MM routines was getting him more bangs per approach than going natural.

      I was flummoxed by his success and asked him to explain his game. The way he breaks it down is simple - every college campus has more girls than guys. On a campus that's 60% female, 1/3 of girls are sleeping alone. Find that 1/3.

      Lots of guys think every hot 20 year old is surrounded by a huge social circle of frat guys and athletes trying to holler at her. This might be true of the peroxide blonde party girl at a huge state school with a big hookup scene but it’s not true for every girl.

      There are a lot of somewhat shy, lonely young college girls because they don’t go out much. They major in 80% chick programs like psychology and don’t meet a lot of new guys. Assuming you’re better than any of the single guys in her immediate social circle, these are fish easy to net.

      We live in a mid-sized college town. I know the local college campus well where he runs his game well – it’s my alma mater. It’s well regarded for it’s Math and Engineering programs – lots of geeks, so the competition from other dudes is minimal. There’s no frat scene or varsity sports scene – no athletes or frat boys. These two factors level the playing field significantly for the average guy. For the enterprising player, it’s a goldmine for pussy.

      The girl he's banging now on the regular is a girl he met from a day game cold approach at my alma mater.

      Delete
    11. I think your buddy mixed something up here:

      "On a campus that's 60% female, 1/3 of girls are sleeping alone. Find that 1/3."

      "It’s well regarded for it’s Math and Engineering programs – lots of geeks, so the competition from other dudes is minimal."

      Please explain this because right now I see a huge contradiction. FIrst, every guy has exactly one girl to bang which leaves one third of the girls unattended (holy shit, what if those are the ugly ones!?), and later on the guys are suddenly no competition.

      I'll get myself some popcorn because this is going to be good!

      Delete
    12. Aaron - on a campus with a 60-40 F-M ratio yes, at least 1/3 of girls are sleeping alone. That proportion is likely a lot higher.

      Keep in mind that on a campus renowned for Math & Engineering, there's a whole lot of the aspergy computer science dorks, nice guy chumps with no game, immature boys who've barely hit puberty, and smelly foreign guys. There's a lot of dorks, dweebs and doofuses in college - I went to school with them. These guys are invisible and unacceptable to most girls.

      The ratio of acceptable guys to girls is a lot lower. Less competition for us. Take advantage.

      I'll relate my experience. In my online dating days I'd hunt for girls 18-24 on POF. I noticed a disproportionate share of hotties from a neighbouring town, mostly college girls from a small campus that's 60-70% female - no exaggeration. WTF, why would these cute, nice, seemingly normal girls be on a dating site looking for men?

      Because they're stuck in an articially closed environment without enough guys. And given the skewed ratios, a huge number of these girls were sleeping alone or resorting to online dating. Owing to today's broken dating and mating scene, there's quite a bit of tight young pussy not getting tapped. Such a shame.

      I've banged a number of these college girls even post-college. So has my Sri Lankan buddy. Via day game cold approaches. The juniors and seniors like mature, slightly older guys who have their shit together, but who still look like they could pass for a college kid. They love a guy with a car and his own pad.

      There's no reason why an enterprising day game player in a college town couldn't have a date lined up with Allison on Monday, Amber on Tuesday, Amy on Wednesday etc. You exist outside of their social milieus amd there's no risk of your rep on campus spreading. Women are choosy as their options, so work the ratios to your advantage. Keep a harem.

      Aaron, you're hating on cold approaches. Have you tried college town day game? Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your purview, or are you relating from experience?

      Delete
    13. Yawn.

      We get it, your "Sri Lankan" buddy is awesome, he pulls chicks that range far above him in the looks scale even though he's short and average looking, and I bet he's "smashing stereotypes" all day long. It's a cliche, and the only difference in your story is that the guy is from Sri Lanka. Normally, it's just "Asian". So, props to your for adding a slightly different twist.

      Seriously, no matter what your buddy does, there is no magic to it, and if he'd drop his bullshit, he'd get laid in less time.

      Delete
    14. Aaron, cold approaches can and do work. To reflexively dismiss cold approaching as "useless" is insolent.

      Guys just need to choose their targets wisely. Don’t chase after the varsity athletes or the sorority sluts and social butterflies. For every attention-whoring peroxide blonde skanking it up at the clubs every weekend, there’s just as many girls spending their weekends working on their lab report or staying home watching Twilight. They don’t go out much because they’re sick of immature frat dudes and lame inexperienced dorks. They hop on the bus, go to their 80% chick lectures, study at the library, get involved in a club or play some intramural sport, and hop on the bus back home.

      These girls aren’t meeting a lot of new guys. They’re the cute innocent “good girls” with tight little 20 yr old bodies who haven’t grown calloused (yet) from being pumped and dumped by multiple players. Some of these girls are looking for boyfriends, and all these girls WILL drop their panties for a smoothtalker with game. These are the girls you want to meet through cold approaches.

      Delete
    15. I don't think you've even read the original post, dude.

      Further, you're twisting like a gymnast. Now we're at the point that you should go for girls who stay at home and watch Twilight...

      Delete
    16. Aaron, cold approaches can and do work. To reflexively dismiss cold approaching as "useless" is insolent. Guys just need to choose their targets wisely.

      That's what Aaron says too lol.

      That's why we later reclarified the meaning of these terms. What Aaron meant by cold approaching is "indiscriminate approaching without 'target selection".

      He didn't mean you can never meet strangers in anyway, lol.

      Delete
  9. Curious Day Gamer is a total marketing PUA faggot. How the fuck are you going to tell people that are minorities stepping to "middle class white girls" that they lack 'value'.That is total asskissing bullshit. Get the fuck out of here you mindfucked, PUA-obsessed faggot.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Curious Day Gamer

    Do you have pics of your friend? Any proof that these numbers actually results in sleeping with a girl? What is good text game by the way? Do he run open and closed macro loops mixed with micro semi-closed loops to get a girl attention in text game?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. His text game is tight. He'll generally text her back the same night looping back to the conversation he'd had earlier. He'll text her sporadically over the next day or two to build some rapport and bridge the gap between "random who approached me on campus" to "interesting charming dude". He says this is key "warming girls up" to answer the phone since girls these days never pick up the phone.

      After a couple days he'll bait them with a teaser text something like "i need your input on something, it's a long story". When she texts back he'll call her right away (she's now compelled to answer the call). And he'll build some more comfort on the phone and ask her out. Younger girls are seldom used to prolonged phone converations with dudes, so if you can pull it off you're golden.

      He'll usually get the first bang on dates 1-3 before he moves on to the next girl. Rinse and repeat.

      Everything he does is methodical and tactically brilliant. He's not relying on his wealth or physicality. What he lacks in value (short, skinny, minority) he compensates for with tight tactical game. IMO this is the hallmark of true game.

      Delete
    2. You really have a gift for bullshitting. Have you considered going into politics? I reckon there is great need for people like you.

      "Text game" is just another invention of the "PUA gurus" to overcomplicate an otherwise simple process. For me, simply calling up the girl did the trick. If she doesn't pick up the phone, you text something like, "Hey, wanna hang out on [day] in the evening?" and that's it. Zero emotional investment until you bang them, and as little time as possible.

      Delete
    3. Aaron, most young girls won't pick up the phone. And frankly my buddy wouldn't get many dates by promptly sending out texts like that. From experience, most girls will seldom invest in a date from a 5 minute approach unless the guy has high value on sight (tall, muscular, Hollywood ideal white guy). Might work for you, wouldn't work for my short Sri Lankan buddy.

      You can improve your date rate by building comfort through text and over the phone, however. More dates will lead to more lays. With enough trial and error you'll realize what works and what doesn't. My buddy says his methodical approach to "text game" has improved his number-to-date-to-bang ratio.

      It's like dropping a frog into a pot of boiling water - don't prompt her to jump out. Turn up the heat slowly.

      Aaron, you're a great watchdog and I admire the work you've done in exposing the sleazy internet marketers and scammers in the industry. But to be so dogmatically dismissive about all aspects of PUA game tactics - especially when there are guys like my buddy who've used it to effect despite physical shortcomings - is impudent.

      Delete
    4. Dude,

      you still owe us an explanation of the mathematical model of college game which your buddy is using.

      Your comments are only interesting as yet another example of the "embrace strategy". Oh, sure, those other PUAs are crap, but Mystery Method the way my buddy does it is awesome. Get real!

      GIrls decide quickly whether they are interested in a guy or not, and if they don't dare to pick up the phone, then what does this say about their self esteem?

      Your analogy with the frog is downright absurd. If the women aren't interested, they don't even put themselves into a situation where the guy could get anywhere. That's why they flake.

      But why do you keep speaking about your "buddy"? Maybe bring him on board as well and let him defend himself.

      Delete
    5. I bring up my Sri Lankan buddy to emphasize my point that game tactics can be used to compensate for a lack of value. Invariably when we see a guy pulling off a cold approach it's the same litany of excuses (he's tall, he's muscular, he's white, he's good looking, he's rich, he's in her social circle).

      My short, skinny Sri Lankan buddy has none of these things. And yet he's pulling. The only weapon in his arsenal is a sharp, analytical mind, a good understanding of evolutionary psychology, and a strong awareness of the social dynamics of the closed environment in which he's gaming (college campus).

      Given your skepticism, we also have audio of his approaches. Here's another one - a cute 22 year old blonde. He banged her on the third date and dated her off-and-on for 6 months.

      http://tindeck.com/listen/jxek

      Delete
    6. It's news to me that a "sharp analytical mind" is an asset when it comes to pulling chicks. If there were a frat house on your campus, the guys would surely disagree.

      For some reason you want to make "game" more complicated than it is, so I can only invite you to familiarize yourself with the "method" I stand for, and then get back to me and tell me where there is something I am missing. I doubt you'll find anything. Mainstream game has turned out to be unnecessary in the best and counterproductive in the worst case.

      Delete
    7. Most of the guys at the local frat house are douchey frat "bros" and wouldn't accept my skinny Sri Lankan buddy anyhow. And frat boys wouldn't have to put much of their analytical minds into scoring hot blondes cuz, well... they're tall, white, muscular, and "socially proofed". :D There's nothing my short Sri Lankan buddy can do about his height or skin colour, so he's doing the best with the hand he was dealt with.

      Day gamers must understand the social dynamics of the environment in which they’re gaming – it’s as important as your game itself.

      I live in a mid-sized college town. There are two major colleges. The contrast in the social scene across both campuses is like night and day.

      Let’s call them Campus A and Campus B.

      I know Campus A well – it’s my alma mater. It’s well regarded for it’s Math and Engineering programs – lots of geeks. There’s no frat scene or varsity sports scene – no athletes or frat boys. These two factors level the playing field significantly for the average guy. For the experienced enterprising player, it’s a goldmine for pussy.

      The campus is about 40% white / 40% Asian / 20% Indian. Social circles are somewhat academically and ethnically segregated.The Asians and Indians overwhelmingly major in Math / Engineering / Science. The FOB Asians and Indians date other FOBs. The cool Asians and Indians date other cool Asians and Indians.

      The white guys major in Engineering and Math mainly, though there’s a handful in other faculties. Most of the white guys are geeks. The ones with girlfriends date the FOB Asian girls from their lectures.

      The white girls on campus major overwhelmingly in Arts (psychology, sociology, history etc.) The Arts faculty is about 80% female. WHO ARE ALL THESE GIRLS BANGING?

      Most of the Asian/Indian guys on campus are unacceptable, and the few cool Asian/Indian guys are banging their hot co-ethnic girlfriends from their social circle. That leaves white guys, but they’re mostly Math/Engineering geeks with no game.

      Which means there’s a huge shortage of acceptable guys for these white girls to date. Which means there are a LOOOOT of lonely horny young white girls on this campus begging to be picked up. These girls will drop their panties readily for a smoothtalking player with tight game.

      Campus B has a very different social dynamic. Bigger varsity sports scene, bigger frat presence. 90% white. Lots of school pride, more of a party school reputation. Lots of good looking girls, but also lots of athlete types and good looking dudes to compete with. If she’s halfway decent and not a recluse she’s got good looking young college guys hollering at her in her social circle. She’s vain and superficial and cliquey wants a guy who’ll make all her friends jealous. The guy has to be near the top of her social hierarchy and fit the ideal mold – tall, muscular, white, frat guy/athlete. The further you deviate from this mold, the harder it will be to get in with her. As a non-college guy who exists outside this hierarchy you’re SOL you’ll have a hard time penetrating this scene.

      My Sri Lankan buddy and I wondered why we were having so much more success with day game on Campus A than Campus B, despite spitting the same game. Once I began to figure this out, everything else fell into place. It wasn’t necessarily me, it was the environment. Basically, on Campus B I was competing with a bunch of high-value guys, on Campus A I was competing with noone.

      Campus A girls proved much easier to get with and less of a pain in the ass to date and bang.

      Delete
    8. @Aaron who said the following to the PUA Shill

      You really have a gift for bullshitting. Have you considered going into politics? I reckon there is great need for people like you.

      SWAB made this post on future careers for PUAs:
      http://stonerwithaboner.wordpress.com/2012/02/14/what-happens-when-a-pua-gets-too-old-to-do-pua

      Delete
    9. So, you are now saying that there are a ton of horny girls on campus who'd fuck anyone who isn't a nerdy maths/engineering students. But doesn't this also entail that "game" accounts for precious little?

      Delete
  11. Hi Aaron,
    Long time lurker, first time commentator. Here’s my 2 cents. I must have approached 300-400 cold. I got laid 0 times. Your post is a much smarter way of getting laid. You even mentioned that one guy who had a 10 percent success rate. Even though I don’t personally know the guy, those odds are low. I certainly know the effort I put into my approaches were greater than my outcome. Lesson learned.

    Furthermore, you have idiots who pay thousands of dollars to get "training" from dating coaches that claim they can solve their problems. Not only do you waste your time learning this crap, you're also down several thousand dollars.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the comment!

      You describe a perfectly rational reaction to the "pickup conundrum". Sadly enough, though, there are still many "gamers" out there who cold approach a myriad of women, don't get anywhere, and then think that it's not that their "material" is bogus, but that there is something wrong with them and that they have to "keep practicing." Well, if someone has paid a thousand bucks for his "personal routine stack", then he's probably unwilling to drop it because for this he'd have to admit to himself that he has been conned.

      Delete
  12. Mysterious Gamer,

    "Tactics" is one of my favorite words ! Thanks a heap for using it so often.

    But anyway, you had the mike for a while now, could you please pass it to a handful of those "chicks" you spoke about ?
    Better let them explain why they prefered fooling around a bit with the "tactical", but otherwise "low value" Sri.
    I'm in for a "female opinion" on this, you see.
    (They can do so anonymously, of course)

    ReplyDelete
  13. Oh, and then there's this :

    I'm not the world's most ethical guy, but if I where thinking along these terms :

    They’re the cute innocent “good girls” with tight little 20 yr old bodies who haven’t grown calloused (yet) from being pumped and dumped by multiple players. Some of these girls are looking for boyfriends, and all these girls WILL drop their panties for a smoothtalker with game. These are the girls you want to meet through cold approaches.

    I'd be disgusted by myself.

    That is, if it weren't a ridiculously immature boy FANTASY to begin with.

    The only thing I can learn from you, is how to certainly NOT relate to girls.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I love your comments, man! The "exam" you posted was a stroke of genius, and this one is just fabulous.

      Delete
  14. @ Curious Day Gamer

    You seem to have an unhealthy fascination with your "friend" from Sri Lanka. If the dude really gets laid then it is because the girls found him attractive before he even decided to approach them.

    Routine stacks are utterly unnecessary. But they could work for certain people, but not for the reasons you think. It may allow them to feel more comfortable in projecting their sexual desire.

    Its funny cuz most routines have nothing to do with demonstrating your sexuality. In fact they just make you look like a total dweeb/dork

    If your not getting laid right now,then it could be because of the following

    1. You are socially awkward
    2. Your lifestyle sucks :- Picking up chicks is not a lifestyle
    3. You are not physically fit
    4. You are looking at the wrong women
    5. You have no cajones

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He's short, skinny and Sri Lankan. Need I say more?

      There's nothing remotely physically attractive about him on sight. No girl will ever give him an "IOI" or an "approach invitation". White girls here generally avoid all eye contact with minority guys.

      Listen to the audio of his approaches. He has a deep voice. He knows how to lead the interaction. He knows how to make the girl her comfortable. He's completely disarming. He has a strong, commanding presence. He's smooth.

      But girls would have never found this out if he never cold approached. He'd be lumped in with all the other stereotypically awkward, accented subcontinental dudes - because that's how he may appear on sight.


      If he followed Aaron's advice (look for signals before approaching) he would not be getting laid by cute blonde college co-eds. Guaranteed.

      Delete
    2. "Curious Day Gamer",

      you don't seem to read any of the comments targeted at you and instead keep spouting out permutations of the same old drivel. Now suddenly the girls are "cute" again. I thought they were the one's nobody wanted to fuck, and constituted the bottom of the barrel your "friend" is fishing for. Or wasn't this the logical consequence of the mathematics you had presented earlier?

      Delete
    3. ...of course, you also previously spoke of "tons of women", and moments later it's "1/3 who sleep alone". It seems you make up shit as you go along.

      Besides, did it ever occur to you that you don't write like a normal human being? I don't think I have ever heard someone say, "I've got a car and a career". People have jobs. HR drones and marketing dimwits speak of a "career" though.

      Delete
    4. Easy tiger. You're getting shrill.

      As for job vs. career - I'll let Chris Rock explain it to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypar-aVN_lo

      Delete
    5. OK, what does your buddy do? Whatever it is, I am sure it's something people would call a job.

      Delete
  15. Easy tiger. You're getting shrill.

    As for job vs. career - I'll let Chris Rock explain it to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypar-aVN_lo

    ReplyDelete
  16. It is amazing how PUA only ever seems to work for "a guy I know" but never for yourself. Whenever a guy is asked for his own numbers, somehow they are never good. The only people who claim that PUA works are the people who are teaching it for money. Then when you ask these guys to actually participate in a scientifically designed experiment to conclusively demonstrate the validity of their approach, no one participates.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi, there are a lot of different anonymous commentators and I'm none of the previous, just to avoid possible confusion.

    A point I'm interested in and would like to throw into the discussion is the following:

    What do you think, would the same girl that turns you down on approaching her on the street, mall, store etc. be interested in you in another context (yoga, dancing class, nightclub or whatever)?

    If so, could the issue be in the following:

    -She sees you as a no-lifer roaming around looking for vagina

    -You just don't fuck random guys who you meet on the street, how do I tell my friends that I had sex with a guy who I met in bus stop (must be a loser) or whatever

    -She finds you attractive but where she's from nobody meets new people like that

    -(Insert whatever other reason)

    I have had sex with quite a few very attractive girls (well just in my humble opinion) who I casually met during my day going from point A to B, but I have also gotten a shitload of flaky numbers, haven't bothered to count, but the number must have been quite high and of course the time I wasted into messaging them I could have been spent on something more productive.

    So what do you think how much does it have to do with the context (even if she finds you attractive and good-looking, she wouldn't fuck you because you met her in a place that isn't acceptable for meeting new people according to the local cultural norms)?

    I mean the same girls that have common interests with you also do their daily stuff, so could it be that she's open to you in one context and closed in another?

    Looking forward to your various opinions . .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You raise a great point, and this is why my buddy and I run our day game at college campuses (we're both alumni, so we know the campus well).

      I’ve had my best success with cold approaches on college campuses. Because I look young, girls just assume I’m a student. Girls feel “safe” on a college campus because it’s a closed environment free from “creepers”, “sketchballs”, “randoms” etc. I’ve even had girls walk me to my destination when I’d stop to ask for directions – this would never happen from a cold approach on the street.

      For younger guys I strongly recommend college campus game vs. street game for day game. There’s less of a “stranger danger” mentality as girls will assume you go to the same school and this will give an in.

      And when a girl goes tells her friends about how she met you, "I met him on campus" sounds a lot better than "I met him on the street".

      Delete
  18. Well yeah, but sooner or later it will surface, that you're not studying at the university, so what are you doing roaming around the campus (kind of weird as well), looking for language classes or >insert another random reason<, that you are actually not looking for?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm there to meet my friend "Chris" whose at a building I can't find, and who needs relationship advice and I figured I'd stop to ask you for directions and get your input on what I should tell him since you wouldn't be biased.

      Field-tested and works like a charm. :D

      If you've established yourself as a cool guy by this point, she's not going to care.

      Delete
  19. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Curious Day Gamer you are one delusional Aspergers bastard .




    johnny you are totally right I've seen these retard PUA"s in action they repulse woman I yet have found one whose actually good and if he gets woman he has good looks but to these retard pua's that will never register on there thick aspi heads .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. tatsdieselgunz said:
      Curious Day Gamer you are one delusional Aspergers bastard .

      Please restrain from that. People with Asperger's didn't ask to be born with Aspergers so it's unfair to use it as an insult.

      Further, being as delusional as CDG is - doesn't require merely misreading social cues. It requires a delusional lack of skepticism, logic and deductive reasoning (non of which are associated with asp).

      Delete
    2. Aaron, it's not delusional when my Sri Lankan buddy and I are cold approaching co-ed cuties on campus... and getting laid. We have a system worked out through and it works for us.

      What's obtuse is dogmatically dismissing anything that violates your screed when provided with valid counterexamples (even in the face of audio evidence like this - http://tindeck.com/listen/fred).

      But do feel free to encourage your dozen readers to refrain from cold approaches. The fewer guys out there pounding the pavement hitting on hotties, the less competition there is for us. :D

      Delete
    3. I thought it was only your Sri Lankan buddy who gets laid. Now you are suddenly in as well. When do you start to teach your system.

      Also, you still haven't replied to the "mathematics problem" above, nor have you revealed the "career" of your buddy. Just make some shit up. You know you love to!

      Speaking of my "dozen readers": keep those lame rhetorics for yourself, because if my readership was so insignificant, you wouldn't have bothered to engage in this debate (and get ripped to shreds). This reminds me of one particularly lame PUA who once tried to suck up to me, and later on claimed that "no one would pay attention to me." It's funny how easily the likes of you get butt-hurt.

      Delete
    4. Aaron, I asked you earlier. You're hating on cold approaches. Have you tried college town day game? Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your narrow purview, or are you relating from experience?

      If you can't figure out how to get laid consistently via cold approach in a closed environment where the girls outnumber the boys, you're doing it wrong.

      Your argument's getting torn apart left, right and centre here. My buddy's career is irrelevant to this discussion. And you sound like the butthurt one bub.

      Delete
    5. The problem is that you are just making stuff up. I bet there is no "Sri Lankan buddy", and if I asked you about the particular college town you claim to be in, you'd be evasive, too. "Um, err, why does this matter? Could be any college town!!1"

      So, how do you deal with the campus police then, when they see two elderly guys molesting "cute" girls?

      Your "buddy's" "career" is very relevant because you claim it does impress the girls. Also, which car does he drive? Don't tell me college girls are impressed by any job and any car, dude.

      Delete
    6. Besides, dude, there are still many other open questions you haven't addressed. Again, please look at the problems that have arisen after you posted some percentages. Maybe you should clarify those. :P

      Delete
    7. Day game at college campuses is advised for young-looking guys who won't look out of place. Campus police won't hassle guys liek us who look to be in their early 20s.

      lol @ "elderly" and "molesting". Aaron, you're grasping at straws now. You're slipping brother.

      Delete
    8. @Aaron - Sometimes I wonder why you bother to entertain obvious trolls so much. My view on value of internet debates is that it's not really about proving the other person wrong, but more that people who are observing the debate can benefit from the logical discussion.

      In this case, I think CDG has been thoroughly debunked. Whether he keeps changing his view or not, is irrelevant. I am sure if you further countered him on every point, he would keep making further shit up.

      Regarding the original point he made about MM, text game, ugly dude picking up hot chicks etc. - all of that is something he himself has contradicted by now saying its more about being a normal guy in a safe environment and finding desperate horny chicks.

      I am sure not one reader from this blog is going to start thinking suddenly that a tactical approach to seduction is worth their time. The point has been made. Everyone can see what CDG is all about. Why harp on it further?

      Delete
    9. I'm not getting into personal details on an anonymous blog.

      Aaron, I asked you twice earlier. You're hating on cold approaches. Have you tried college town day game? Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your narrow purview, or are you relating from experience?

      If you can't answer this, the premise of your argument's just been ripped to shreds.

      Delete
    10. I quote from an internet article by Drew Baye :

      "In most cases, arguing with idiots on the internet is a complete waste of time – you’re not going to convince them of anything. However, if you argue with the intent of informing others reading the debate rather than “winning” against the idiot some readers will benefit and at the very least debate can sharpen your own understanding of and ability to explain the subject."

      Delete
    11. Johnny,

      you are right. The reason why I keep responding is because I find it quite entertaining. In this case, that's the wrong tense now because the discussion has jumped the shark by now.


      Curious Dude,

      your current version is that you are basically doing warm approaches. As Cani rightly pointed out, this means that we don't disagree.

      Delete
  21. @AlekNovy A lil sarcasm won't hurt him ;) hes already brain washed and I have an idea who is Curious Day Gamer .

    ReplyDelete
  22. I've got some more for our college "gamer" and his buddy:

    1) How large is the university? How many people live in the town?

    2) Why are so many girls walking around in the evening? You know, I have attended university, too, and if my memory isn't playing strange tricks on me, it's only busy during the day, and the later it gets, the less people there are around. Or are the "careers" of both you and your buddy so flexible that you can roam the entire campus in the early afternoon!?

    ReplyDelete
  23. Quote CDG

    "I’ve had my best success with cold approaches on college campuses. Because I look young, girls just assume I’m a student. Girls feel “safe” on a college campus because it’s a closed environment free from “creepers”, “sketchballs”, “randoms” etc. I’ve even had girls walk me to my destination when I’d stop to ask for directions – this would never happen from a cold approach on the street."

    What you just described here is not cold approaching, it is warm approaching. So your whole arguement is false (ie trying to prove that cold approaching is doesnt get anywhere is false, by only using warm approaches as a premise instead of a cold approach).

    Anyone who has been to college/uni, will realise is that if you live in the halls together, or in the same classes then it is very easy to start a conversation with practically any girl, as long as you look like you belong to the college scene.

    This is just an example of the whole being part of a "niche", that aaraon sleazy has talking about in his book.

    So the fact that you are both Aluni, and look like students, you are part of the niche. Thus whoever you approach on campus will recognise you as a student. Thus you will be accepted more warmly than if you were dressed in a suit looking older (not part of the niche) or meeting her on the streets (cold approaching).

    So this whole debate is pointless. You are not doing cold approaches, you are doing warm approaches. Thus you just proving aaron right in that warm approaches are the way to go, instead of going after girls indiscremently.

    Next time CDG, if you want to prove that cold approaching works, do it in take recordings of your buddy, on the streets approaching random girls, or dress like a non student and look older (in a suit) and approach girls on campus. Then come back with a better reposte.

    Cani

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    Replies
    1. What you just described here is not cold approaching, it is warm approaching. So your whole arguement is false (ie trying to prove that cold approaching is doesnt get anywhere is false, by only using warm approaches as a premise instead of a cold approach).

      In all fairness to CDG, the term cold-approaching isn't institutionally defined and doesn't have a common understanding. Some people use the word cold-approach to mean "talking to a woman without her giving you an AI first" - even if it's at college.

      Which is why I proposed alternate terms:
      http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-cold-approaching-is-pretty-much.html?showComment=1333980210435#c692975650374372502

      Delete
  24. Hey CDG if you are going to come here with your mental masturbation at least do it under the same SN you post on other boards ayemmm Mace .


    http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?1800-College-Town-Game-for-Guys-No-Longer-in-College



    http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?3545-Why-Cold-Approaching-is-Pretty-Much-Useless&p=31623#post31623



    I also think you have other SN in which you troll Aaron on the other site where the pua"s mentally maturbating eachother .

    ReplyDelete
  25. Maybe I previously asked too many questions at once and the discussion that followed by the ''curious one'' drew the attention elsewhere.


    But I would still be interested in Aaron's ideas on the following points:


    If we presume that she's either attracted to you or not from the beginning and there's not much you can do about it, then what do you think, would the same chick that eye-fucks you in the yoga class (or any other gathering of people with common interests) be open for sex when meeting you on the street (let's leave out the scenarios where she's obviously in a hurry or looks totally pissed off and other weird occasions like running to catch her bus etc) or how big do you think is the role of the context in hooking up?

    I have been to some countries including Germany, where girls tend to avoid eye contact with strangers in general, so you won't get many welcoming indicators by approaching anybody on the street, so I kind of tend to think that quite a lot of girls, that even found you good-looking wouldn't hook up easily with a random guy from the street, or what are your ideas on the impact of cultural norms for meeting up vs attraction?

    I tend to agree that actually going out to roam the streets for the sole purpose of getting pussy is far from being time efficient.

    To CDG: don't you feel kind of shitty inside, when delivering your made up stories, I personally find it extremely difficult to talk about fake bullshit that I couldn't give a rat's arse about (asking a girl for her opinion on your friends relationship issues, come on man, you must really care a lot about your friends love life)?
    Who would ask a random girl for advice on a friends relationship issues anyway?

    Regards,

    Roger

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    Replies
    1. Roger,

      "if" is the operative word here. Normally, you'll find that women are inviting approaches to a much higher degree in, say, a yoga class than on the street.

      Cultural norms are of course important. Germany, like the UK, is a sexually repressive culture, though, so I am not sure the argument would go in the direction you intended.

      Delete
    2. Yes culture does matter, but it is too much to think about, I just ignore it to a certain extent. I would stick with the general cultural rules, but thats about it. Living in London, you can get away with a lot, but if I was in middle east, I would not be kissing a girl on a park bench in public.

      I say, stick with getting eye contact with girl before approaching (pinging). Force the eye contact, if she glances your way and catches your eyes and holds it, then approach, it will go good most of the time. Thus when you go and talk to her you are not approaching, you have done that with locking eyes.

      So on the streets, she might give you some AI but it is rare, but if she does, or you ping her and she responds well, then of course talk to her and escalate to find out if she is into you. Yet I have to say that doing this in certain parts of town (rough areas) or with certain girls, you may get negative responses and some might get aggressive.

      Even if you do approach a girl and you find out that she is into you, then of escalate as far possible. Yes cultural and social norms will prevent things from happening. No girl I have approached during the day has ended up in bed the same day, let alone made out with. It is more likely that girls who are into me, will give me a number and meet up another time. That is only the girls that are into me, the girls that arent well the majority wont even give me the chance to say hi, if they do getting a number is harder, and the numbers I do get are flakes.

      Even pinging girls or just approaching randomly in london, does work very well with foreign women, especially latin girls. But there are issues with language which does make it more effort than it is worth.

      cani

      Delete
  26. Aaron, what are your thoughts on Justin Wayne? He has proof of his lays, some of them are beyond his looks range, seems like his method is legit, but I don't know the amount of rejection he gets either.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He has proof of his lays, some of them are beyond his looks range

      Nobody here says it's impossible to get women out of your looks range. Assortative mating simply says that on AVERAGE you have the best odds with women in your looks/status range. You occasionally get a chick a few points above you - given enough numbers gaming.

      HERES THE DEAL THOUGH - nobody has proven he can CONSISTENTLY get chicks out of his league. Does that make sense? In other words, these guys can't demonstrate that they can make it happen on cue (more than accidentally every few months, after doing a whole bunch of average and ugly chicks in between)

      It's the same odds that the average guy has. Even average guys randomly luck out and get a chick out of their league occasionally.

      Delete
    2. Exactly the point. An average guy with a little experience of going out, handling some basic approach & social anxiety and just escalating (none of these require any special methods) should be able to pull average-below average chicks with a reasonable amount of consistency. Hell, if you actually went around telling people I can pull average and below average women consistently, people will laugh at you and say dude, of course, anyone can do that. Probably this guy will pull an awesome chick sporadically.

      Since anyone can do this, the only thing which might make game superior to an average guy method is if it can help you pull awesome women consistently. As Alek says, no one claims to do that. Almost everyone claims that it is not possible, even guys who teach it for money. The thing though is that an average guy getting into this is not able to connect the various dots.

      Delete
  27. I personally know Justin Wayne and went out with him a few times.

    He gets laid. I have seen him with quite attractive girls, and with some decidedly average, even below average, girls. Many, perhaps even most, of the girls he gets with are foreign, who are seen in NYC as easier.

    Dude, he hits on a TON of girls, in NYC, and gets rejected by the VAST majority. He is also a really cool guy to hang with and barely does the stupid PUA bullshit, despite what he says. He is actually very charismatic and good fun, has fantastic fashion sense that he has adapted to his body type very well.

    So Justin is no more than a cool guy with great fashion who hits on a TON of girls in one of the most girl heavy and easy to get laid cities in the world, and gets rejected by the VAST MAJORITY of them.

    No special skills there. Just a numbers game.

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  29. I think I am going to join this discussion. I live in New Zealand Auckland like most of you know. I am 22 of age. I am 5 ft 11 tall - 6ft with my shoes - and can honestly tell that conversions from daygame is very very low. I think my conversions have beign better the last times. I found myself approaching girls from the back that I dont do anymore so I naturally have a higher percentage of receptive girls. I now have girls from every 5 or so numbers that will at least agree on a date with me. But some still flake. And on the first date they all flake afterwards or most rule me out on this moment.

    My point is I have beign doing daygame now for 2 years, and approached about 2200 girls on the streets. I am still single.

    There you go. Daygame is no use of time. Unless you live in New york city and is basically anonymous and you can do a hundred girls a day or such a ridiculous amount like I heard a pua said, who lived in NYC. But your much better using your precious time for something you like instead.

    If you have any questions about the big red herring of daygame feel free to ask me. Just to remind you, I'm not a bad looking guy and I am still single even from all the daygame appraoches. Do you still have to second guess cold approaching? I dont think so...

    "'
    Aaron, you're hating on cold approaches. Have you tried college town day game? Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your purview, or are you relating from experience?"
    "
    Buddy, I used mystery method myself. I used most of those fluffy stuff thats sold as snake oil today. By the way, did you noticed you fell into the trap of the fallacy of excluding alternatives or otherwise post hoc ergo hoc propter hoc fallacy?

    Just because he used mystery method and got more conversions does not mean mystery method followed more conversion? Did you consider that Aaron directly states that a number of gold diggers which is about 30 percent of girls naturally want richer men just for their money? In this case of Mystery method, you are using routine based game and lying which could've resulted in the gold diggers to appear? Have you also considered that he might have worn very expensive clothing the day he used the mystery method and naturally appeared famous as he used it which would naturally prompt his success rate up attracting more gold diggers to his fame or maybe he just got more gold diggers like Aaron pointed out that wanted him so naturally his success rate was higher because of an increasing number of said gold diggers?

    Or are you excluding more alternatives again by trying to imply only one thing follows for his resulting success in more females? Or maybe hes statistics are biased? Did you see him approaching those and actually see him with those exact girls? Or did he tell you he have a better success rate. Sounds like you are suffering from wishful thinking too. Have you even consider this? Or have you only cherry picked the post hoc ergo hoc propter fallacy that the mystery method must follow a better success rate? Shoot, your critical thinking skills really lacks.
    I did daygame now for 2 years approached over 2000 girls and my success rate was to say the least, low.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hey Sleazy,

    I did daygame for 1,5 years and I did 500 approaches

    Results:

    5 Dates
    0 Lays

    What can I do, I do not know what to do, because I just wanna a attractive girlfriend. This is my only goal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Peter,

      you'll find an intro to seduction in my free ebook Debunking the Seduction Community. Have a look at it and see whether it'll help you. It will definitely get you started and put you in the right direction. For a more elaborate description, I can of course recommend Minimal Game.

      Delete
  31. To those guys not getting results from day game cold approaches - you're doing it wrong.

    It's funny, my buddy knew an Indian guy back in the day, like 2007 or so -- really smart, cool guy, who totally made Mystery Method day game work for him.

    He learned about half a dozen magic tricks, had the same 2-3 openers and routines, got really good at all of them and then would go out to book stores and parks and get like 8 phone numbers in a single afternoon. Got 'em out on dates to and laid them, mostly short blond girls. And he was this short, bald, Indian guy. Thing was, he was totally normal... even kind of nerdy. Super friendly guy though and easy to relate to.

    Just goes to show, that anything can theoretically work. It's more a question of efficiency, what your goals are, how you want to go about it, your personality, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  32. haha these guys (Lockheed & Peter Komp) are even worse then Dream. Come on guys I can't way till you're going to sell DVD's.

    this blog is hilarious!

    ReplyDelete
  33. Stop_being_so_negativeApril 14, 2012 at 8:45 AM

    The discussion in this thread is really interesting.

    http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Aaron-Sleazy-Cold-Approach-Pretty-Much-Useless?pid=7343#pid7343

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure, but they're arguing a strawman since they have a different definition of "cold approaching".

      What Aaron meant was to say "Indiscriminate approaching is useless".

      These guys at that topic misread it as "Approaching strangers is useless".

      You'll see everyone at that topic is whining about how supposedly Aaron is telling them to only meet chicks in social circles i.e. they completely misread Aaron's piece :D

      Delete
    2. http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Aaron-Sleazy-Cold-Approach-Pretty-Much-Useless?pid=7025#pid7025
      This is absolutely hilarious :D :D :D It's basically this mark douchebag saying the following:
      =============
      What bugs me the most about this though is the mindset it implies. It implies a mindset of, "Hey, you should settle for the low-hanging fruit. Take what's given to you."

      The idea that you should wait around for a girl to make eye contact, or that you have to join classes or groups to make it easier for yourself -- it's saying that you should wait around for women who want you, instead of directly pursuing the women who you want.

      For me, I approach women I want to approach for no other reason than I want to approach them. It doesn't matter if it's in a yoga class, on the street, in a night club or at a friend's birthday party. It doesn't matter if she's been staring at me for five minutes or if she has no idea I exist. I don't care and I don't really think about it. I approach based on MY INTERESTS not based on HER INTERESTS.

      =============


      Look at me mah, I have an internet penis... I'm A GO GO-GETTER MAH, look at how much balls I have, I hit on random women endlessly and spend 10 hours trolling around creeping out random chicks, omg that gives me such a hard on omg :D

      LOOK I HAVE NO LIFE, I hit on high-hanging fruit so I can impress my internet buddies about how I creeped on 60 chicks and called hundreds of chicks to get the ONE same chick I would have gotten anyway if I had a life - but look at me, I'm so alpha... I'm a GO GETTER!! YO!!!

      I'm mark the GO GETTER! No low-hanging productive fruit for me!!! Fuck the low-hanging fruit that takes 2 seconds to snatch, I'll spend 4 weeks constructing a ladder to get the fruit on top just so I can brag I got the fruit on top, even though it's rotten, but HEY I GOT THE HIGHER HANGING FRUIT!!! LOOK LOOK AT ME BROS, I AM SO COOOOOL!!!!

      p.s.

      Internet bros, please validate me and tell me this makes me cooler than Aaaron Sleazy and people who have a life... Thanks.

      Delete
    3. Even better is that your buddy "Curious Day Gamer" is active over there as well. I guess his Sri Lankan friend is on the best way of becoming an Internet celebrity.

      Mark's post is beyond ridiculous. It's the same thing Alek once diagnosed as yet another disease among "gamer": Pickup has to be hard. If it was easy, it "doesn't count". First there were fool's mates which "didn't count", now it's apparently picking up willing girls at yoga or dancing classes that doesn't count either. Hey, why not strap a plastic dildo on your forehead and go out like that? (Some people actually did that.)

      Delete
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  36. "To those guys not getting results from day game cold approaches - you're doing it wrong."


    Oh how so? Listen buddy. Didn't I already mention that I used the mystery method for more than 2 years without success? I used it in not only the day, but clubs. It's useless. It screwd all my sets up. And please don't come and tell me
    "but maybe it was the wrong angle of approach or maybe your mindset or "vibe" was incongruent." What you don't seem to understand is the mystery method has so many exclusive variables that if you fail with it there are so much reason a so called mystery method "coach" would point out to you in a ridiculous sense that you might have done wrong. It's almost as if you sufferring from x desease he implies. It becomes so ridiculous that he critize the angle of your approach instead of just considering the obvious that the girl was not into you to begin with.

    Also, I do not need to be the best daygamer. My results is my results. You cannot tell me how my results is different because of your friend because I am a different person wh olooks different. Your friend might be skinny, but something else tells me there's something your witholding. He might be a popular or tall guy. He might be very social. He might seem as if he has money.

    Why didnt you answer Aaron's andy my questions before? YOu keep on stating the mystery method is supposed to work but think about this for a change: do you really think if you go out one day and dress totally different and possibly get a better success rate, its because the sun shines brighter? If previously the sun was'nt shining so bright. It's about the same type of argument. Your trying to take the mystery method's approach into account if there's alot of variables that could make him more successful.

    Also, maybe with the mystery method approach, he was screening the girls that were into him to begin with and since he felt confident that day, he natrally went up to those who like him already and could feel a good vibe??

    Also, did you take other people around you into account using the mystery method. Did they find the same? How did they compare with someone using gamblers method or rsd.

    If you still state the mystery method works, it will be biased since you also don't know how these girls turned out in the life of your friend. What if they were just friendly with him?
    It has beign proven by other studies that if one feels really confident, he would get the results from other people too and thats because he seem to see who likes him and go for them? Aaron also stated this in his post, which you seemingly were utterly unaware of.

    It's funny, my buddy knew an Indian guy back in the day, like 2007 or so -- really smart, cool guy, who totally made Mystery Method day game work for him.

    He learned about half a dozen magic tricks, had the same 2-3 openers and routines, got really good at all of them and then would go out to book stores and parks and get like 8 phone numbers in a single afternoon.

    ReplyDelete
  37. It seems to me your not telling us everything of your friend. Your going of at a Tangent to not consider noting your friend's looks overall and his social status and fame.

    How many people did you take into account using the "mystery method?"
    How do you know he doesnt just lie to you to maybe market the mystery method?
    Did you beign on the dates he went to? Did you see proof of the specific girls he dated when he wanted to do the mm approach?

    Also, the catch: Did you approach as blindly as he did before he used the mystery method?

    The only way you can prove the mystery method to work would be to take hundreds of cases; which people already have done; and prove that it is no other than the method or routines that can work and that has.

    Also undoubtly, none of the elderly people I know who were ladies men used any sort of "routines", They were just beign themselves. None the less, there were no "routines" or negs or DHV's taught those days and they succeeded with ease.

    Considering mystery does not have a degree in anything related to psychology, why should you take him as an expert on a field of psychology called seduction? That would be false Authority.

    Why don't you go read Helen Fischer "Why him why her."

    She is an Anthropologist who studied attraction. She mentioned nothing about routines and even critizes verbal game because of it. She clearly made observations that attraction has to do with a personallity type you are and not because of what you say or do or what ridiculous angle you approach like the mystery method guys say.

    If anything, you can conclude that Fisher's book gave you the ability to screen the girls who were your type. But the mystery method practioner will be oblivous to this; he will rather say it was mystery's routines who got him the girl, instead the fact that he is a better body language reader now and just got the girls because of an ability to see the world better.

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    1. Also, the catch: Did you approach as blindly as he did before he used the mystery method?

      There was a docummentary about an experiment once, where they found out that men do not really choose the woman, even when they think they do.

      They had followed a bunch of bar pickups, after which they interviewed the men. They found that a man would post-pickup talk about how he spotted this cute chick and "decided" to approach her.

      The researchers however noted that this was not the whole story. In every single case the woman had been sending signals of availability and that she's looking to be approached (either in general or by that guy in particular).

      Some PUA gurus tell you to go approach thousands of women (ignoring all the harsh rejections), until you find that eventually women start reacting very well to your approaches.

      PUAs claim that you had "subconciously micro-calibrated and improved your approach through experience"

      What's more likely however is that you have simply improved your detection of which women are likely to respond well. You just now feel more "drawn" to those women.

      In other words, if a man gets great results whenever he approaches, he's approaching the right women (not doing the "right approach"). He might not be doing it consciously, but this is always the case.

      Most people who are called "naturals" and have amazing success rates, are nothing more than guys who have an amazing sense for which women to go for.

      Delete
    2. There was a docummentary about an experiment once, where they found out that men do not really choose the woman, even when they think they do.

      This is very correct.

      Its not just with regular girls, but in massage parlors and brothels, where you really would think the choice is entirely up to the man. Even in these environments, you choose based on which of the girls in the line seem into you, and it can be extremely psychologically stressful to choose girls who do not give you signals of interest.

      I know, I did it ;) I once did an experiment. There was a period in my life when I would go to these kinds of places all the time, and I noticed at some point that I did not always choose the girl I felt was most beautiful upon first seeing what was there. Sometimes I would, but often I would not. Wondering what was going on, I suspected precisely that it was because the girls were *channelling* my choice through signals of interest, and that I was not entirely aware of this.

      I was right. I did an experiment of choosing girls regardless of what signals I got from them, and not only was the experience far worse, which is no more than you would expect, but it was psychologically stressful to me. When I would choose these girls they would react in obviously unfriendly ways and would give out obvious signals of displeasure, even if nothing was actually said or done. But facial expression and body language are hugely eloquent, as we all know.

      It reached the point where the experience of going to these places went from carefree and fun to something I dreaded, and then I stopped. Obviously men choose just as much as women - only an ideological fanatic with a particular agenda would deny so obvious a thing - but from among the women we choose, we react to signs of the women choosing us, as well, before our minds let us feel comfortable about making a move.

      The fact is, we as humans are intensely social beings, and we suffer greatly trying very hard to get something or be liked by people who dislike us - it is just a massive body blow to our self-esteem (part of the reason game is so psychologically damaging, btw). Being rejected is not so bad on its own - not bad at all, really - but a rejection that comes after you TRY to be liked, is just bad stuff. That is why the advice to approach girls with no serious enthusiasm, effort, or commitment, merely to see if she is into and not with any intention to make her into you, is the most psychologically healthy advice you can give a man, while telling him to exert tremendous efforts to be liked by the girl will make every rejection a stressful experience.

      Delete
  38. Wow all I got to say is Alek you are a dumb ass. Anyone who opposes your chain of thought you dismiss them as fakes or liars. I don't know CDG or his Indian friend but if he claims that mystery method works for him and provides the evidence to support it then surely we must believe him. Does that mean that anybody who uses it will have the same success.. No. But to pass him off as a troll is just ignorant and stupid. Then you carry on and basically call Mark a fake. What makes Sleazy more reliable than Mark??? A book about his conquests??? Now I'm not saying Sleazy is a fake because I don't believe that but I do believe you should do your research on Mark before making such idiotic judgements about a person

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    1. =====
      Wow all I got to say is Alek you are a dumb ass. Anyone who opposes your chain of thought you dismiss them as fakes or liars
      =====

      Are you sure you're talking to the right person? It seems like you're confusing me with lockheed, because I've never commented on either MM, nor said anything about "fakes" or "lying". I just searched this page to make sure, and those words were never used by me.

      =====
      don't know CDG or his Indian friend but if he claims that mystery method works for him and provides the evidence to support it then surely we must believe him.
      =====

      Are you sure you're not confusing me with other commenters? I never commented on that topic.

      ======
      Then you carry on and basically call Mark a fake.
      ======

      As a search showed, I have never used the word "fake", so I'm pretty sure I didn't use it about mark either.

      What I did do was mock him for boasting about doing indiscriminate approaching as if it were a virtue.

      I never questioned whether he indiscriminately creeps on random women. In fact, I made fun of him for passing it off as a virtue.

      He tried to make it seem like HAVING A LIFE (meeting women through hobbies, networking) is somehow "unmanly" while he is a MAN for creeping random women. I displayed this fact through sarcasm.

      There was nobody questioning whether he is telling the truth. I have no trouble believing he has no life, and that he creeps on random women (instead of getting a life). I believe him.



      ======
      What makes Sleazy more reliable than Mark???
      ======

      Nobody ever went into a topic of reliability? Do you have your glasses on when you read or is your fury causing blur that makes you unable to read things on your screen?

      Delete
  39. Brilliant post! Wish I would have discovered this path sooner!

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  41. Lu, I was the one saying that the mystery method is fake and is based on anecdotal evidence, so please come to the right guy if you want an argument, not to Alek.

    Lu, you clearly did not read what I or any other of the members wrote on the page. We gave tonnes of reasons why arguing we stated the mystery method to be biased.

    What thecuriousdaygamer claimed was not objective evidence. He did not see any of these to be true. He clearly cherry picked an example of a day or a few of where this "indian guy" friend of his started succeeding with the girls he picked on that day without clearly stating what else he did. It was completely non sequitar. What he did lack to do was to provide stated evidence that it was and must've beign the mystery method that got him that success; where he obviously lacked saying other things his friend did that could've contributed to the latter.

    That's already enough to illistrate that the argument is not based on plausible reasons.

    The Mystery method, and all that other trash, is not coming from an intellectual that did research based on thousands of studies published at a university reference. Or why do you think Oxford or MIT did not have former pua publish a journal under them stating
    "Pua technique guide to getting girls. Centuries of wonder away. Seemingly what Sigmunt Freud couldn't understand and even that the 1 thing he couldnt seem to understand is a females mind is now beign discovered. Thanks to(insert puas name)"



    So why would you trust it?
    Seemingly, as I stated before, your grandfather have beign doing quite welll without the mystery method, not to mention, in those days very few people were single.

    If I were to make a harsh generlization as with you proving the mystery method to be complete and unbiased, i can just pick an example of the single cases of today. There are many more men single today than 20 years ago before game was popularized. So cant I follow that game cause men to be single?

    Can you see where this leads?

    If anything, there was no theory ever done that game could work done by the dozens of intellectuals in the field of Science and Anthropology and Psychology. Did you even bother to read Dr. Fishcers book on attraction?

    Also, why do you think that the mystery method publishing along with all those other "methods" seem to be so expensive? Plus bootcamp prices. Who will have the stupidity to pay 10000 dollars for a pua training bootcamp? And that is the price since I last check for their 7 day transformational bootcamp; and theres also no guarantee that you will get girls more. At least not models. I dont know about you, but the last time I checked who dated the top models of the world, it as not Puas. It was actors.

    But as long as puas claim their "plausible statistics" do indeed matter, youll fall for the stupidity no matter what. So have fun with pua. "thats not very alpha bro."

    -Lockheed

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  42. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  43. "Wow all I got to say is Alek you are a dumb ass"

    Good job for falling in to the trap of the classic ad hominem.

    ReplyDelete
  44. To Curious Day Gamer:

    Sounds like you're a RIM employee hitting on Waterloo undergrads at the SLC. And now as a Waterloo employee, I'm going to have to be on the look-out for a short Sri Lankan guy running MM game on campus. You're probably not wrong about the women in the arts faculty being under-served by the undergraduate male population. And you sound like you have decent tonality and are at least a reasonably presentable guy.

    All that said, lose the routine stack. This stuff was tired in 2006 and it's embarrassing to listen to. For that matter, lose the field recorder too. In MM parlance, you're spending too much in the attract phase. In normal-person talk, let the girl speak, ask you about yourself, and tell you about herself. And find out what she's passionate about, learn to notice and then enjoy the moment when her eyes light up and there's a rush of words coming out of her mouth. Get her to offer up her phone number (BTW, who uses the phone to make calls anymore). Dude, you're surrounded by smart, beautiful girls (seriously Canadian college guys, Waterloo girls are often not conventionally pretty, but there are many who are beautiful), learn to enjoy talking with them as a person.

    I'm not sure why you're posting about this on this comment thread. Half of the people here are die-hard anti-gamers. The other half find this MM stuff passe.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "This stuff was tired in 2006 and it's embarrassing to listen to"

    The stuff was "tired" even before 2006. It should have never beign on the bookshelves. And if people began thinking with their heads instead of something else, the world wouldve beign in such a good place restricting pua economy to increase.

    "you're spending too much in the attract phase"

    Which I still clearly don't understand is how you can get an "attract phase". Which is supposingly the phase where one should act the most boyish to think that suddenly the girls attraction will swap 180 degrees around and now you can make any girl attracted to you.

    "Half of the people here are die-hard anti-gamers. The other half find this MM stuff passe."

    And this seems to be the most comprehendible position to take, noting that if you were a "gamer" which is just a term for an MM suffer, your obviously are so guillable that you'll call yourself anything to feel good.

    Also, if you want to do MM, feel free to do it, no one of us can keep you from it. However, if you think youll be going to write a scientific journal about how MM is correct, Sceintist will disagree,look at it and trash it. So feel free using pseudo science to meet girls.

    The probability that if someone tells you about property investment on planet Mercury will be greater as well. Guillability comes in many forms. You can lose heaps of bucks because of it.

    -Lockheed

    ReplyDelete
  46. Aaron, another good article!

    Cold approaching is indeed a waste of time. Allow me to qualify :

    I like to meet girls during the day, as clubs don't really do it for me. Prior to attempting 'cold approach' methods, I would go out for an hour or two, browse some shops, maybe purchase a book or something, and keep an eye out for a girl who met the following criteria :-

    1. Not in a big group of girls. Alone, or perhaps with just one friend.

    2. Not caked in makeup, or carrying one of those tacky handbags with a 'gold' chain for a strap. Usually a gold digger.

    3. My type in terms of looks i.e, shorter, mediterranean or asian (preferably slightly 'bookish'. Smart girls are beautiful too, dontcha know?).

    4. In an environment conducive to opening i.e. bookshop, quiet coffee shop.

    5. In a context that gave me a reason to talk to her, even if it's just asking if a seat at the table is taken.

    To hardcore MM technique practicing alpha males such as our friend CDG, this will all seem terribly lame and 'beta'. But guess what? Out of every
    4 or so girls I spoke to, I got a number, followed by a date, followed by sex, and sometimes followed by a relationship. That's a 25% hit ratio, all for a couple of hours spent enjoying myself in the centre of London. All of these girls were charming, kind, and didn't mess me around one bit. If I texted, they texted back. If I rang, they answered or called back. If we arranged to meet, they turned up, on time, well presented, and weren't carrying a single piece of emotional baggage to unload on me.

    Having had some success with this approach, I chose to up my game, and try some cold approaches, at the behest of a friend of mine who had been following Rob Judge. We went and did it exactly as per the instructions in the e-book (I confess to skimming over, as it was dull, not that well written, and repetitive). Over a period of 2 x months I approached 100 or so girls (all hot), on the street, nothing indirect about it at all. Here is what I experienced.

    1. 90% + of the girls responded in a friendly manner. The remaining 10+ brushed me off as quickly as they could. Noone was rude or abusive.

    2. All the girls who didn't brush me off loved the compliments and attention etc.

    3. 95% of the girls told me they had a boyfriend and made their excuses.

    4. Of the 5 numbers I got, 2 never replied.

    5. Of the 3 girls that replied, 2 came on a date with me.

    6. Of the 2 girls I dated, neither would let me kiss them.

    Big fucking victory for direct approach there then. ¬_¬

    So my ratio of 25% lay rate, using my own personality, and selecting the most suitable girls in the most ideal situations, dropped to 0% kiss rate using direct approaching. I should point out that I'm not a bad looking guy, just under 6 feet, with good physique, I'm intelligent, with good hobbies and a gift for really good conversation when the mood takes me. In other words, I really have nothing to complain about compared to a lot of the guys into PU.

    CDG, you are talking complete BS. You have presented no real evidence of your 'Sri Lankan Buddy' demonstrating his skills, by which I mean multiple videos, good quality, clearly taken on the same day, with solid results that cannot be mistaken as anything other than a girl who is clearly interested. Additionally, your described behaviour is actually quite creepy (feel free to change tack in your response, you can't remove what's already been written). You're basically using MM as an outlet for your nerdy tendencies. Stop wasting time creeping everyone out; you're probably a decent enough guy, go and do something constructive instead of 'hardcore sarging'; it's been done, and it's been proved to be lame beyond belief.

    And your 'Sri Lankan' friend is you, and you aren't getting laid much. Fact.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for posting that John - it's a great example of "discriminate and selective approaching".

      Delete
    2. You're welcome Alek

      Yeah, it's really quite a relief to accept that I'm fallible, and only ever going to attract certain types of women. The pressure of feeling that I'm not living up to some 'ideal' only made things worse, when I think back to it. And the best thing is, this is a technique that will work well for every guy who is willing to give it a go!

      Delete
    3. @John

      And the funny thing is that you learn there's nothing wrong attracting a certain type of woman. (provided physically equivalent looks).

      If you're looking to get laid and you attract hippie-intellectual-chicks, you find out that in bed they're the same naked as a pornstar-dressed-airhead.

      So... what's wrong with doing better with one group than the other? What's wrong with not getting the club-airhead when the only difference is when she's in clothes?

      Absolutely no difference but ego. And if you're looking for a relationship? Even better if you attract the kinds that naturally gravitate toward you lol...

      Delete
    4. @John - This is a great breakdown. I too followed Rob Judge, heck I even paid money to those guys. I didn't follow my stats from day game following his advice but it was roughly that I got lots of numbers (almost one in every 3), roughly 5-10% replied and I never got a date from it.

      Delete
    5. John,

      this is a great comment that illustrates perfectly the problem with cold approaching. I'm glad you've shared your story! I'll repost your comment on the front page on the blog, and will write a about one particular facet of it soon afterwards.

      Delete
    6. Thanks for the props chaps

      @ Johnny and Anonymous : I didn't pay for any of Rob Judge's material or tuition, and to be fair to RJ he was very generous about my friend's lowly financial status, and let him attend workshops for free. I did my approaching mainly in Soho, Oxford St and Covent Gdn, where I saw very little PU activity (presumably because Leicester Square represents some kind of comfort blanket to the budding seductioneers). I did however pay for a one night 'approach boot camp' with Gambler. Some of the advice was actually quite useful, and I would still consider it valid, but most of it was really a poor investment. The instructors had little interest in helping us out in the venue (yep you guessed it, 'Tiger Tiger', lol), and what advice they gave was mostly so vague as to be open to any kind of interpretation.

      At Alek :

      'Ego' is indeed the key word here. A simple example is in the fact that all these horny and lonely guys will spend a fortune on boot camps, manuals, one on one coaching etc. but will not risk damaging their ego by spending a fraction of the cash on banging a hooker who looks exactly like their dream girl, for no effort or risk. This is despite the fact that her emotional investment is not neccessarily going to be less than that of the narcissistic bitch who makes him jump through a thousand hoops before she'll let her fuck him.

      @Aaron :

      Thanks for the comment. By all means repost, if it helps a couple more guys come to there senses, then all the silliness I put myself through will be that bit more worth the while.

      Delete
  47. Great info John Graham.

    I am London too, I hope you didnot do all you Rob Judge stuff in Leciester Square. That place is filled with guys trying it on, very funny.

    I have done a lot of direct approaches, and cold approaches, but most dont work out. I have always got better results when started a conversations with girls situationally (did I miss the bus? is that a good book?), even better with girls in an warm environment (house parties, pub quizzes, places where there is a common interest we share).

    Either way, if she is into me and not preoccupied, I find they will give me a chance.

    I find if I dont think about what I want to say, and say what is on my mind, it normally works, especially if the girl is into me. Regardless of being perfect.

    I also find that if a girl is in a good or neutral mood, and in a warm environment, they will be good to talk with. Problem is, I had this a lot, I thought they were into me, but they were being friendly.

    The only way i figured that they were into me was to escalate, see how they respond. Also finding something to talk about together, is essential, and is not hard to do if you just get out of your head and are genuinely interested in the girl.

    Even if I dont escalate, and just have a good interaction, and she is into me and I was too blind to see it, she will give off obvious signals (her hands on me) to me that she wants me to do something, or she will be direct ( "are you goin to kiss me?"). I think the problem with me is that I cant look for signals of interest, when I am in a conversation which am enjoying. But I guess that comes with time.

    cani

    ReplyDelete
  48. What is your target audience for this blog Sleazy?
    For the newcomers, or the one who just readed the MM, this post is a sound advice.
    On the other hand, for someone with good calibration, avoiding cold approaches would be cutting lots of good encounter.

    Just yesterday I was walking with my friend in city center. I saw one girl from behind (true cold approach), standing alone near a restaurant, and I thought she had amazing body. I just stopped next to her, and said hi. Within milliseconds I knew what was her opinion on me. My friend just walked away a few meters to give us privacy. Turns out she is taking a quick break from her work at the restaurant, and will finish at 21h. I take her number and say we'll meet at that time. 21h01 I text her im here, she comes out and we go to a date.

    I also want to specify that is was the first "approach" I did that day.

    Your concept that a man engaging a woman is the most natural thing in the world is something I am very fond of. So if this is true, why cold approaching should be restricted?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you even read the article and the subsequent clarifications on what Sleazy means when he says "cold approaching"? He really meant "indiscriminate approaching"

      Because your entire comment seems to be based on something Aaron never said. It's ok if you misunderstood based on the title, but then he clarified further for people who misunderstood him.

      Aaron would most definetely not be against what you did there. You FELT like you had to say HI to this ONE girl that stood next to you*. This is NOT indiscriminate approaching

      *-> If anything, there's evidence that when guys feel they HAVE to open this ONE chick (omg she has an amazing body), it's really that their advanced calibration and experience is telling them that she's open to being approached.

      Delete
  49. This post is brilliant dude. I have a "natural buddy" who have 100 percent success rate at "cold approaching". However, if i ask him to approach a girl, he would never do it. If he does do it, he gets laid. It's definitely because he only hit on girls that gave him enough signal and success.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Ok, I do want to clarify and helped out some of you. Sure, indiscriminate cold approaching unreceptive girls will NOT make them receptive. However, for complete newbie, they need to do it. First of all, most new guys have massive social anxiety, so even if they encounter receptive girls, they WILL NOT approach her because of their own social anxiety. If they approach unreceptive girls(or even random people for that matters) it helped eliminate their social anxiety. Second, most people who lack social experience, they cant even read signals very well. The more girls you approach, the more signals you can read. So sleazy post is great as a guideline on what you can achieve eventually(reading receptive girls signals) but in order to get there, you must approach tons and tons of girls just to learn experience. Then take it to the right demographic and approach receptive girls = massive success.

    ReplyDelete
  51. You gotta change the title of "cold approaching" because it mislead people that approaching is completely useless. At least define cold, warm, hot approaches in the beginning of the posts and what that means.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I'm sorry I thought the article rambled and went in different directions - as such it could give the wrong impression.

    Yes, look for warm approaches. But it's possible to go out 1 or 2 evenings with friends, in the street or at bars, and wait and see who's into you, do your 2 to 5 approaches and get laid semi-consistently from this. With little to no hassle because you choose girls that are your type, similar style and looks level, and those giving you the right signals.

    But to suggest yoga and dance classes... Ha! Let's create an imaginary guy that likes to play male dominated sports, but decides to take up dance classes pretending he wants to do it, but really he wants to meet girls. He could go to dance classes and have his time wasted because he doesn't fit in. He can also end up being used as the male dance partner needed by the girls without ever getting a girl in exchange, which is the real reason they are there, i.e. being the orbitter that the community describes. Also, it's a lot easier, as you know Sleazy, to just get rejected/screen the girl out and move on in bars or on the street, rather than playing some long indirect game.

    Yes warm approach, but this can still be done on the street or in night venues, as opposed to following BS time-wasting interests, a guy might waste time and money pursuing when he really wants to do other hobbies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let me quote from the article:

      Further, Chris likes music, especially tango. Salsa is not really his thing, so he doesn’t go there. But what happens at a typical tango class?

      I think you should read the article again before you pull stuff out of thin air.

      Delete
  53. Aaron, appreciate that I am looking at your article from the perspective of what it seems to promote tacitly - whether you consciously or even purposely intended it.

    You mention dance classes, so guys reading your blog for advice might tell themselves, "hm, good idea! I'ma try dance classes. Sounds like a good idea. Oh, and I'll do it for me! :)"

    Do you think what I suggested above might happen? It's the kind of thing the community would suggest and it puts certain more hopeful(or rather gullible and naive) men's time, money, effort at risk.

    I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm putting words in your mouth, but I'm trying to bring out clarity. Perhaps you addressed in in the responses above or elsewhere, but I haven't read it as yet.

    Yes, it's great if a guy is into dancing, yoga, mixed sports etc, but this is not always the case. Hell, sometimes a man at a gym chooses to focus on himself and ignore female distractions for that period - just an aside here.

    Anyway, my point is sometimes at a guys job, neighbourhood, social group, interests and so on he doesn't have access to women. So yes he purposely and with full awareness takes up an interest OR more directly goes out to meet women. He can make it fun if it's an interest he enjoys or goes out to bars/the street with a friend to hang out - but there is no BSing here: he wants to meet and have a sexual relationship with a woman as a dominant goal. And within this, he can do warm or smart approaches and not run around like a headless chicken, which could have been an alternate focus of the article, given its title.

    I hope that makes sense.

    M

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "You mention dance classes, so guys reading your blog for advice might tell themselves, "hm, good idea! I'ma try dance classes. Sounds like a good idea. Oh, and I'll do it for me! "

      Yes, I've mentioned that the "yoga guy" actually enjoys yoga, which renders your comment moot.

      Delete
  54. Curious day gamer said
    "Aaron, you're hating on cold approaches. Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your purview, or are you relating from experience?"

    Johnny said
    "It is amazing how PUA only ever seems to work for "a guy I know" but never for yourself."

    End of discussion- because I am having the same doubts about Aaron Sleazy too.

    As someone who has had sex- but admits he's no player (nothing to do with my looks BTW)I can sense that Sleazy is no different than a PUA. He's making Money off of marketing himself as an "anti-pua" guru- but giving PUA advice.

    That whole speculative "Yoga/dance class" suggestion is a PUA/Dating advice cliche'
    Even more worringly Sleazy is referring to a "third person"- why not draw on his own experiences which has alarm bells ringing in my head and screams lack of experience.
    The more Sleazy posts theoretical replies the deeper the hole he his digging himself.

    As for Curious day gamer- I too make references to guys who I KNOW have had more dating success than me- due to more Money- better job prospects and a pad to bring girls home. He's giving legitimate advice based on a real person not some made up scenario (like Sleazy is).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yawn. Read Minimal Game if you want concrete dating advice and keep your lame rhetorics to yourself. I am indeed quite proficient at Ashtanga Yoga, and I have attended tango classes too. So, what was your criticism again?

      Delete
  55. What would you recommend to someone who isn't confident approaching, surely they have to approach a lot to feel comfortable. Its going to be difficult to condition yourself to approaching women if you only approach when there is obvious interest from the girl.

    Also I'm sure yoga and dancing would be great ways to meet girls if you enjoy them, what about the majority of guys who aren't interested in yoga or dancing?

    Cold approaches aren't very efficient but some guys don't have a lot of options.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's not as if you wake up and one day think, "I'm going to really like Yoga." Instead, you try a few activities and see whether you like something or not, and if you're lucky, you come across something you really enjoy AND has the added benefit of allowing you to easily meet women.

      Delete
  56. "it may be hard for you to swallow that success due to a genuinely cold approach does not exist. It is only due to ignoring or misinterpreting social cues that a guy thinks he got laid off a cold approach"

    I HAVE picked up genuinely stunning women that I met walking down the street, and subsequently slept with them. Your absolute statement above is simply not true. I've done it. I've seen friends of mine do it. These were women who would not have noticed me had I not gone up to them. I've done it dozens of times, and they were a cold approach in every sense of the word.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You didn't get the post. The problem is that if she wasn't interested in you she wouldn't have slept with you. You won't turn around a girl who is genuinely uninterested in you. No, merely playing hard to get and letting you wait a little bit doesn't mean that she's not interested.

      Delete
    2. His point is that they wouldn't be interested in the first place, had he not cold approached them. Therefore, cold approaching works. This is obvious.

      You intentionally titled an article "why cold approaching is pretty much useless," presumably to get views. When people give you concrete examples of it working, you spend the comment section telling people "you didn't read the article" or "you just didn't get it."

      Own up to your trolling.

      Delete
    3. Alek Novy wrote a reply just for you in the comments section of this post:
      http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.se/2012/11/criticizing-rsd-means-youre-fag-and.html

      As always, people like you are either shills or lack basic reading comprehension. So, which one is it?

      Delete
    4. Sleazy, the fact is that you are misrepresenting what a 'Cold Approach' is.

      When you say "The problem is that if she wasn't interested in you she wouldn't have slept with you." She wouldn't have known to be interested in me in the first place if I hadn't cold approached her!!

      I can't believe that you would so wilfully and intentionally try to mislead people. You should be ashamed of trying to do so.

      Delete
    5. You seriously need to work on your social skills. You can recognize before the approach how well it will be going. It's extremely rare that a woman puts up a cold front, only to suddenly open up when you talk to her. Your problem, and a big problem of the "community" is that you guys just can't read people.

      Delete
    6. A 'cold approach' is where you approach a girl you didn't know previously.

      That's it.

      Obviously it's better if you can get a positive reaction out of her before you talk to her.

      But it doesn't matter if you flashed each other smiles and then went over to talk, that's still a 'cold approach'. Something you advocate for in your pdf books.

      Delete
    7. Debunking the Seduction Community, p.54:

      you can try cold approaching and meet girls in night clubs and bars. Yes, girls go out to get laid. This is what I prefer, but depending on your age or city, this may not be an option. If you don’t like to go out, you can also try your luck during the day:
      there are streets, malls, bus stops, book stores, record stores, coffee shops, cafeterias, public transport, university campuses, and the list goes on and on. In big cities there is an abundance of lonely office girls that spend their evenings alone, eating Chinese food while sitting in front of the telly. They are only waiting to meet a great guy.

      This is the thing I don't understand about you Sleazy. You're just so inconsistent in what you say. You're constantly contradicting yourself. I like some of what you write, but it's contradicted in numerous other places.

      Delete
    8. I am not talking about a positive reaction, but signs that she seems open to be approached. You are apparently oblivious to this dimension of social interactions.

      Your quote from "Debunking" is taken from a part where I very briefly explain seduction. I don't discuss the concept of "cold approaching" in detail there, so holding this against me is quite dishonest, don't you think buddy? Imagine anyone would quote a brief comment you made three years ago to refute a current article on your blog.

      Besides, had you bothered to really read up on my position, instead of your juvenile attempt at mudslinging, you might have come across this post from 2009, which is readily available on my forum:
      http://www.aaronsleazy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=703

      Delete
    9. "but signs that she seems open to be approached."

      THIS IS STILL A COLD APPROACH.

      YOU HAVE NOT REFUTED ANYTHING I SAID.

      Did you not read what I wrote??? "A 'cold approach' is where you approach a girl you didn't know previously. That's it."

      I'm dishonest because I take one thing you said and contrast it with something else you said? No buddy, you're the one who is again and again proving yourself to be a dishonest charlatan.

      If you don't like something you previously wrote, take it down. Don't have a go at me or anyone else for being confused by your contradictions and inconsistencies.

      Delete
    10. Sorry, buddy, but I think you should work on your reading comprehension before you start accusing me of random nonsense. Everything you say has been covered before ad nauseam. Further, since you defend "cold approaching" so vigorously, don't you see that there is a big difference between randomly going after girls, and taking social cues into account?

      Yes, putting something out of context is dishonest. This blog post is a much more thorough discussion of the "cold approach" concept than a mention in passing I made somewhere else three years ago. I think you should have paid more attention in the writing classes at university.

      Delete
    11. Aaron, you should these recent posts over at Blackpill along with their comment sections before getting too embroiled in a debate with this guy. He's remarkably stubborn and persistent in his commitment to remaining deluded, so you'll just end up frustrating yourself. Just be prepared to smack your own forehead a few times in disbelief. He's not just a PUA shill but even worse he's a proud Roissyite shill:

      http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/defined-by-what-makes-it-unique/

      http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/worse-than-placiebo/

      First he will debate you using shoddy logic or intellectual dishonesty, then turn around and claim the problem is you and storm off in a huff claiming he's above the fray.

      Delete
    12. Grizzly,

      thanks for the information!

      Delete
  57. I basically threw in the towel with respect to actively "sarging" for women.

    Sure, I'll approach a cutie if I run into her while shopping or running an errand, but no more blocking off time to troll supermarkets or malls for the sole purpose of soliciting dates/sex. What a waste of time, energy, not to mention mentally exhausting and stressful. I say do it the first 50-100 times to get rid of your approach anxiety, jitters, and general nervousness with talking to strange people; but afterwards you need to channel your efforts towards building a social circle of solid buddies and female friends, finding hobbies you enjoy, staying in good physical shape, and working on your career aspirations.

    Meeting and dating women should be a natural by-product of an interesting life you build yourself. The process should be fun, effortless, exciting, and a mutually satisfying experience for both parties involved. Not a chore or a herculean task that requires hours of running "game" or "tactics" and a 1000 rejections before you're allowed your prize of a crappy one-night-stand. With that sort of time/money/effort sunk into such a trivial pursuit you're better off just paying for a hooker.

    At the end of the day...my realization came when I decided that my time was valuable and how embarrassingly foolish and degrading it was to live my life in pursuit of others' validation simply because they possessed a vagina. A man's purpose is to go out and build something of himself, not run around like a pathetic mindless animal searching for any hole to hump.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I agree with this post. I read Minimal Game too. I have also been going out "sarging" on the weekends for the past 4 months. Many numbers, some kissing, no banging. I don't run routines or any of that shit but I do cold cold approaches.

    In college there was banging. Plenty of it my final year (last year). I am going to step up my social circle. As someone obsessed with fitness, I am going to try yoga.

    In defense of PUA/sarging/cold approaching I would like to give credit where it is due. While the conversion rate is low, the fact that it continually pushes you outside of your comfort zone has many benefits. Social skills improve for sure. Assuming you dont run hilarious PUA style stacks or routines it also makes lower pressure, "warm" approaches a piece of cake.

    Even if it gets you nowhere, being able to approach, touch, and kiss through a cold approach, it will only be easier warm.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hey man, Just bought you book. Really good read! Ive got a question about warm approaches. How do you get succesful at them, I find in social settings I tend to be pretty poor at pickup up women, perhaps because I know that if it goes to shit ill have to see her and all the people in the socisl group again.. Or if I hit on her in front of other people they will know I'm hitting on her and think im a bit of a creep. Is this where cold approach is useful, because it teaches you to hit on girls properly with no repucusions? Or is it different hitting on girls through a warm approach compared to a cold approach, this is something that I couldn't really pull out of your book.

    Thanks for your blogs, I really enoy reading them. You speak the truth, I hate all those 'PUA's' (Pretty Ugly Amateurs) that are just out there to pull in the cash.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the support, man! I'm happy that you like the book. If you've got a few minutes to spare, it would be great if you left a review on Amazon.

      Regarding warm approaches: You should be able to get a good impression whether the girl is actually interested in you. Let's say she smiles at you a lot, or looks in your direction. If there is some reciprocity, you can then say something like, "Hey, let's do something together, like X" This can range from something fairly non-committal like grabbing something to eat after class. If she doesn't like the idea, then she can always say that she is busy or whatever. On the other hand, if she says that X sounds great, then you know that you're on the right way.

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  60. Hey Aaron,

    i got your book as well and it describes many of my experiences.
    i can only confirm what you say about warm approaches / warm environments as well. Obviously, this trumps cold approaching by far.

    However, you shouldn't massively hate on the cold approach. AT least here in Munich / Germany cold approaching is a halfway reliable system.
    Yes of course one should idealy integrate in his everyday life (which i do).

    But the idea of joining a certain event / class that has some kind of selection and just by this you immediately raise your chances massively, contradicts my experience.

    I go to a salsa class aregularly, and first of all, the ratio is not 2:1 , but 1:1, or sometimes more men. A buddy of mine paid 100,- for professional lectures, only to find a ratio of 1,2 : 1 (more men)

    Although i should possibly check out yoga, its not like you waltz in some class, and girls that would turn you down on the street (cold approach), now eyefuck you.

    And id estimate the number of occassions where a girl would hold strong eyecontact / give any signal to me, not more than a handful in 2012.

    Id consider myself as average looking, 5'9 tall. Im working out now more than ever, and improving my style etc, but still i go out 'sarging'.

    I dig your view of the PUA crap 110%, it is shit, but randomly approaching works for me at some level. And ive tried other 'sources', like uni, sports, mutual friends as well, where i didn't find such massivley increased odds.

    Keep on rolling!
    Its not so bad as you describe it!

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  61. Replies
    1. I never claimed that girls suddenly eyefuck you just because you walk into a yoga class. Please be serious. It's great that random approaching works for you, but if you were looking at your numbers, you would probably agree that your actual success rate isn't that great either. Do you know Paul Janka's? If I take his as the "gold standard", I have to say that it is more reasonable to cultivate a social circle, and have some hobbies where you can meet women. A 1:1 ratio strikes me as unusual for a dance class, based on my experience. Yet, it's still better than at bars or clubs, isn't it?

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  62. I think there are some things you are overlooking. First of all, the PUA "approach 1000 women" has nothing to do with the number of succes. It has to do with overcoming fears and learning how to talk to women. It is all practice. This is very helpfull because without the practice, you can end up looking pretty awkward when you meet women at yoga. Secondly, you are right that many women will reject you, even if you are very handsome. But there are some girls that aren't sure about you and if you have enough practice you can stimulate them to wanting to see you back. Thirdly, you are clearly talking about daygame. You can also meet women during nightgame. And in a nightgame setting there are things like they way you dress and preselection, which can really make your "conversation rate" much higher than Paul Janka during daygame.

    So I don't agree with all your PUA bashing. The world isn't white, the world isn't black. The truth is somewhere in between. But you are right that having interesting hobbies with women is much easier to meet women than in a busy shopping mall. In the other hand, if you don't care about rejections and you want to maximize your succes, 1 chick out of 1000 is still better than 0 chicks out of 1000 ;)

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    1. Just think of all the things you could do in your spare time if you got one out of four or five women instead one out of one thousand. There are a million things more interesting than getting rejected by random women.

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  63. A clarification - people frequently cite Paul Janka's 11% 'success rate' as evidence that results from day game are low even for exceptionally handsome, well-dressed Harvard alumni. However, Janka makes it clear in his writings that this 11% was obtained from him making the smallest investment possible: basically, he got the girls back to his apartment as soon as possible, often before they'd even been on an actual 'date', and if they didn't put out he'd cut them loose.Therefore, for a guy prepared to put in more than this cursory level of effort, the results obtained could be much higher.

    There's a kind of semantic argument going on here about what is really meant by 'cold' approaching. While I respect much of what I've read of Aaron's writing, all I can say from my own experience is that I've approaced girls in the street and in clubs and elsewhere who haven't even looked at me, less still given any discernable indication that they were interested, and I've ended up sleeping with them. I met my ex, a girl I was with for two years, at a bus stop: she hadn't so much as glanced at me before I began talking to her. Now, Aaron may claim that she was sending out micro-signals that I was unaware of at a conscious level, but I'm sceptical - I'm pretty well attuned to social signals and anyway, I think in many cases male confidence at the moment of approach can in itself be attractive to women. It helps that I'm OK looking, articulate and well-presented, but having balls definitely wins you brownie points a lot of the time. Seduction 101: girls like confident guys, remember?

    To go back to the Janka model - if I like a girl, I'm usually prepared to give her two, sometimes three dates without her putting out before I reassess. Whether I've met her on the street, in a club, or through work or whatever is at this point immaterial, the pattern is the same - I take her out, get to know her and esculate as quickly as possible. Perhaps I'm particularly good at this but more often than not it works, and this is entirely unrelated to whether she had demonstrated interest prior to my approaching her or not.



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    1. You seem to think that you'll get a date no matter what. This is wrong, though. She'll only go on a date with you if she's seriously interested. This could of course be because she has a real lack of options, but the case still holds.

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  64. No, not at all - I've been blown out and flaked on as much as the next man. The issue at stake here is whether cold approaching is worthwhile or not. When you say she'll only go on a date if she's 'seriously interested', I assume you mean in my looks / height / dress sense / externals ? That basically if she fancies me then she'll come out, and if she doesn't then she won't? (Correct me if I'm wrong here). If so, this is where we differ, as it is my contention that the manner of the approach to some degree affects the way a woman perceives you.

    When I think back on all the cold approaches I've made (where the girl hasn't even looked at me or given any inducation of interest prior), the successful ones have always been those where I've walked up with confidence, charisma and strong intent. Now, you could posit that on these occasions the girl just liked me anyway, but I'm not so sure - I suspect that, had I approached less bullishly then I may well have been rejected.

    If I'm right then this is where all that commercial inner-game stuff peddled by the usual suspects starts to make some kind of sense. Say there was a tried-and-tested method for me to make a greater percentage of my approaches more confident: surely as a punter I would be interested?

    Look, I'm as sceptical of the commercial PUA scene as you are - I've read and agree with 'Debunking the Seduction Community' and I think a lot of them are selling snake oil. That said, there are shades of grey here - I suspect a combination of occasional cold-approaches, more frequent warm-approaches and social circle stuff is probably the best formula, but to write the former off entirely just doesn't square with many people's experience on the ground.

    Best,
    Troy

    While I agree that social circle and warm approaching is probably more efficient,

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    1. Hey man,

      sure, it's important how you carry yourself, but this alone wouldn't do it if she wasn't also interested in you in general. If she's got no interest, then she won't waste an evening on a date with you. Also, some girls surely disliked you for your "bullishly" approach. There are so many factors involved. However, in the end it matters that she liked you. Further, cold approach has such a low success rate that any generalizations about the very few cases that were successful strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. Why not think about the majority of women you approached who didn't like you?

      Well, writing off cold approach in general because of the absurdly low success rate does square with the experience of a lot of people on the ground. Sooner or later guys have to admit that they're just wasting their time and that there are much more productive ways to go about meeting girls.

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  65. Hi Sleazy,

    I know this post is two years old, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU for being such a breath of fresh air, and let you know how cool it is to find that someone I genuinely admire has echoed what I've always felt to be true instinctively.

    It's a relief to give up the forced compulsion to go completely against my instincts and participate in a self-defeating cycle created by con-artists and freaks.

    Nice one Sleazy.

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  66. Aaron, you such a GREAT GREAT realistic guy to get this PUA shits debunked. I've come to a conclusion that seduction is really that simple. We just need ourselves and find the girls that is receptive, no need to do unnecessary techniques, and just make it flows, not fuckin it up. This is no shit. If the goal is to bang girls, and the problem is to bang a girl is that so hard, why would we spend our time to just doing cold-approach to girls on the street, for years, if there's no extremely significant result? If to bang hot chick is our goal, why we don't spend our years to work, or doing some business then collect some money, and just find some prostitutes? It would much be easier and on the right track and efficient, than to spend money to join the nonsense boot camp and pay the dating coach for thousand bucks.

    I also find that warm approach is on every point of view is better than cold approach, due to ethical and social reason, and It is highly effective in all cultures. So I think you point out this perfectly. We, the guys who knew and practiced PUA shits, and paid thousand of bucks, at the end, are very lucky to read your posts, and will save much more money in the future.

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  67. Aaron thanks for the great article. I have lived in New York City for 3 months and I have been rejected by over 200 women here. Now I don't really care about rejection but it gets really frustrating when women show their bitchy attitude when you are offering value to them. I feel really tired and sick of playing these games and on a verge of quitting.
    I also work in an industry where everyone is a male so I don't have any girls in my social circle. You mention their are tons of girls going for dance classes. Now I love dancing but not necessarily tango or salsa. I like popping and wondering if their are girls coming to learn that dance.

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