The debate surrounding my article Why Cold Approaching is Pretty Much Useless rages on. Everybody who criticized my position either hadn't read the article, or did lack real world experience. A particularly interesting encounter happened yesterday, when someone sent me angry messages on facebook. I got the impression that he simply lacks sexual experience and for psychological reasons defends a theory he has bought into which hasn't helped him much in scoring girls. I was in a somewhat confrontational mood, so I kept asking him about his "count". Of course, he evaded this question and stuck to his theories.
One of my readers, John Graham, left a great comment on my blog the other day which illustrates perfectly what the problem with cold approaching is. Since the comment thread of the original post is at around 130 already, I decided to republish it on the front page.
Here's John Graham, telling you about his experiences with cold approaching. Enjoy!
Aaron, another good article!
Cold approaching is indeed a waste of time. Allow me to qualify :
I like to meet girls during the day, as clubs don't really do it for me. Prior to attempting 'cold approach' methods, I would go out for an hour or two, browse some shops, maybe purchase a book or something, and keep an eye out for a girl who met the following criteria :-
1. Not in a big group of girls. Alone, or perhaps with just one friend.
2. Not caked in makeup, or carrying one of those tacky handbags with a 'gold' chain for a strap. Usually a gold digger.
3. My type in terms of looks i.e, shorter, mediterranean or asian (preferably slightly 'bookish'. Smart girls are beautiful too, dontcha know?).
4. In an environment conducive to opening i.e. bookshop, quiet coffee shop.
5. In a context that gave me a reason to talk to her, even if it's just asking if a seat at the table is taken.
To hardcore MM technique practicing alpha males such as our friend CDG, this will all seem terribly lame and 'beta'. But guess what? Out of every
4 or so girls I spoke to, I got a number, followed by a date, followed by sex, and sometimes followed by a relationship. That's a 25% hit ratio, all for a couple of hours spent enjoying myself in the centre of London. All of these girls were charming, kind, and didn't mess me around one bit. If I texted, they texted back. If I rang, they answered or called back. If we arranged to meet, they turned up, on time, well presented, and weren't carrying a single piece of emotional baggage to unload on me.
Having had some success with this approach, I chose to up my game, and try some cold approaches, at the behest of a friend of mine who had been following Rob Judge. We went and did it exactly as per the instructions in the e-book (I confess to skimming over, as it was dull, not that well written, and repetitive). Over a period of 2 x months I approached 100 or so girls (all hot), on the street, nothing indirect about it at all. Here is what I experienced.
1. 90% + of the girls responded in a friendly manner. The remaining 10+ brushed me off as quickly as they could. Noone was rude or abusive.
2. All the girls who didn't brush me off loved the compliments and attention etc.
3. 95% of the girls told me they had a boyfriend and made their excuses.
4. Of the 5 numbers I got, 2 never replied.
5. Of the 3 girls that replied, 2 came on a date with me.
6. Of the 2 girls I dated, neither would let me kiss them.
Big fucking victory for direct approach there then. ¬_¬
So my ratio of 25% lay rate, using my own personality, and selecting the most suitable girls in the most ideal situations, dropped to 0% kiss rate using direct approaching. I should point out that I'm not a bad looking guy, just under 6 feet, with good physique, I'm intelligent, with good hobbies and a gift for really good conversation when the mood takes me. In other words, I really have nothing to complain about compared to a lot of the guys into PU.
Aaron, please clearly define what a "cold approach" means to you.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
"Everybody who criticized my position either hadn't read the article, or did lack real world experience"
ReplyDeleteEveryone who doesn't agree with me is dumb. Yeah. Awesome.
People make knee-jerk reactions when something doesn't chime with their world view. It happens all the time.
ReplyDeleteYou really gotta define what "cold approaching" is. Most people assume that cold approaching is approaching in general. This is where you get most of the flames from.
ReplyDeleteCold Approaching = going up to any random girl and striking a conversation like a creepy fool .
ReplyDeletewarm approaching = girls giving IOI"s or random natural conversations "situational" in a venue in which you don"t come out as a creepy PUA
How hard is that to understand ?
I'm confused. It's NOT OK in your mind to go up to a girl that hasn't noticed you yet to see if you guys vibe?
DeleteIn pickup community, it's a general assumption that cold approaching is the act of approaching complete strangers. Warm approach is the act of approaching strangers who are connected with people you know, like your friends, family members or colleagues. Aka. social circles.
DeleteI am not sure that "assumption" is the correct word here. If this is indeed how some understand cold approaching, then it's an example of obfuscation an otherwise linguistically clear situation. It's just like calling every seemingly negative reaction a "shit test", but there is a world of difference between teasing, flirting, and insulting responses. PUAs are often completely oblivious to it.
DeleteSo in your words it would also be creepy, if you go to a random dude or girl and ask what time it is. I like your stuff, but I really don´t understand, what is wrong to go to a random girl and say directly what you have in mind. That´s the only difference to your Minimal Game advices. After the so called "cold approach" it´s exactly the same. Figure out if she is receptive and move on or go away. Nothing too fancy or pick up bullshit needed.
DeleteWhat would you say to a guy, who is in the city and sees a hot girl, but can´t figure out if she is receptive or not (perhaps she walks in front of him) and he wants to approach her?
Don´t get me wrong, I like the concept of John Graham in his post, it´s a natural and socially common way to meet and date women. I think you want to point out the concept of street sarging, where guys go on the street only to approach women. That´s really akward.
DeleteThe issue is that in a hostile environment you are quite likely to be a viewed as nothing but an intruder. Street game just has a piss-poor success rate. Sure, if you see one of those once-in-a-lifetime girls, then go ahead and try your luck. However, statistically speaking, you'd be wasting your time. Just because someone wins the lottery doesn't mean that it's a good idea to buy lottery tickets, because, statistically speaking, you'd be wasting your time. Similarly, by randomly hitting on girls, you're wasting your time.
DeleteAlso, I don't quite get how you can assume that a girl is hot just by looking at her ass. Sure, her ass might be fabulous, but then you overtake her, turn around, and as you want to say your "opener", you notice that you really don't like her face. What then?
I speak for myself here and I"m sure sleazy would agree with me . The chances on going up to any random girl is that at the end she will flake if there is no mutual attraction getting a girls number is useless if there is no mutual attraction .That"s why cold approaching is not effective,experiment this for yourself go up to 100 girls randomly then come back and tell us how many times you got your dick wet .
ReplyDeleteIf you want to get lay consistently escalate on the girls who are attracted to you already PUA"s are not in it to get lay they rather think is all about skills and get some satisfaction by going up to any girl get her number even if she flakes .There is no skills there is no game .It"s the hard reality for the delusional gamer"s .That"s why the topic sleazy touch butt hurt a lot of community guy"s ...
The big problem with Sleazy's post is that he keeps telling people to do warm approaches but never tell them what signals indicate warm approaches. He should post a complete checklist to help guys out.
ReplyDeleteBecause we all know that most guys are oblivious to girls signals. Most of them are so subtle and sneaky.
Not to mention that some girls hide their signals better than the others.
DeleteAs others have already said, it's fairly common sensical stuff. Also, what kind of criticism is this? You guys are like people in a calculus class complaining that the instructor didn't tell you how to add integers. Seriously, if your social awareness is so underdeveloped that you absolutely can't tell when a woman might be interested, you have much bigger problems to worry about and shouldn't even think of debating pickup.
DeleteWhat's next? Me posting on how to improve your fashion, and you dudes complaining that I didn't explain how to tie your shoe laces!?
That all comes with experience, and yes Sleazy explains that on Minimal Game and hes explain it before he even wrote his latest book .There is also guy"s on the forum who explain that .
ReplyDeleteAnd no most guy"s are not oblivious to woman signals any normal guy whose social outside the pua community can catch those signals woman give of PUA"s will brain wash you and make you think that AFC"S don"t get laid which is complete B.S ..Any normal guy who goes out and it"s social catches those IOI"S from chics . I don"t call them naturals they are normal guy"s to whom pua"s try to emulate with there stupidity .
Then that defeats the purpose of warm vs cold approach argument because you need to approach a lot first to start recognizing warm signals. Then you stop cold approaching and starts warm approaching.
DeleteYou're making assumptions that most guys who go out recognize girls signals. You should be more specific: guys who go out and are successful with women in general.
Because there are tons guys out there who go out but are not successful with women, regardless whether they're in PU community or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not into pickup and the community. But assuming that you go out consistently and then you get women's signals is just bunch of BS. Why? Because that's what happened to me in my late 18s to mid 20s. I experienced it with my life and lots of guys I know.
There are also a ton of guys out there who are successful with women without ever having heard of the PUA community, and they do so because they figure out that a girl that smiles at them might be interested. Seriously, this isn't exactly rocket science.
DeleteOMG a girl smiles, what a revelation!! (sarcasm)
DeleteBut let's be real, how many times do you get girls blatantly smiling at you or looking at you as if they literally want you to approach them?
In my life (in bars/clubs), I get NONE. Girls only smile when I finally come up and talk to them.
Like I said, I'm not into pickup and the community. But I can tell that girls know how to hide their signals. Smiling and staring at you is as blatant as it gets, and a lot of guys rarely get those. Unless you're good looking, they already met you or you have status.
Try this: Look as good as you can (workout, clothes), and go to a place where you could reasonably expect some of the women to be into you.
DeleteYou know, Sleazy,
DeleteIf there's one thing I wish you are, is for you to be less vague with your advices. You tell people to stop cold approaching but you don't really provide the detailed solution, either.
"reasonably expect some of the women to be into you" is like "Okaaaaay, I don't know what is...."
It's like a car technician telling you to fix your brake, then you ask "how do I fix the brake?" then he goes "Well, go figure it out yourself"
It sounds like this because to him (and a lot of other people as well), it sounds too basic to even mention. Examples would be like this - say you are 20 yr old college guy in a different country. If you go to bars where only local people go, then it's quite possible that you won't have much success, or if you go to upscale mainstream lounges, you won't have much success because everyone is much older. Maybe go to general international type bars, college bars, house parties, other places where people your age might go. When there, dress based on the kind of girls who want to attract. Here that would be college girls, so maybe a t-shirt, jeans and converse shoes might suffice. That's one example. Of course, it would vary based on your own unique situation.
DeleteAs far as examples of women who might be interested are concerned, there are some posts on Sleazy's forum which talks about this. My general rule of thumb is girls who seem to hover around me, seem to be looking at me, girls which seem to be more interested in looking around than at their group, or seem bored in general.
Try this for a while. It is almost impossible that your results won't improve significantly.
Aaron, does approaching a girl at your university campus with no prior eye contact or approach invitations and with whom you share no mutual friends constitute a cold approach or a warm approach?
ReplyDeleteOh, I sense the beginning of yet another theoretical discussion. Don't you think you should also consider whether the guy who is approaching is a student as well? ;)
DeleteAaron, so according to you whether he's a student or not makes a difference? Please answer the question directly.
DeleteWhy do you try to put thing in my mouth I didn't say?
DeleteI repeat: Don't you think you should also consider whether the guy who is approaching is a student as well?
So, YES, it does make a difference whether you are Matt from Econ 101 or Joe the Plumber who thinks he gets himself a cute co-ed and save her from her fate of sleeping alone.
Aaron, so just to clarify:
DeleteA student approaches a girl at his university campus with no prior eye contact or approach invitations and with whom he shares no mutual friends. Is this a cold approach?
Imo it's warm approach. I approached many more chicks at university than on the street.
DeleteYou and her are at the same university ,so it's only natural to reference to this in some way :
Hi , what are you studying:)?
Hi, can you tell me where the building X is?
Hi, what are you waiting here for?
Haha, u still in lab clothes?
etc...
It all led nowhere for me , but it was nice (without anxiety that I have to make some ridiculous shit up) talking to people and not just randomly creeping on the them at the street.
You should go out and see it for yourself .
ReplyDeleteYou are either a pua or inexperience virgin again peddling back on being an approach machine Lol to get experience hahaha . When sleazy already explain it on his blog ,I gave you and explanation now you want to bait it into a debate even though you are saying it defeats the purpose of the topic.Dude you are either retarded or brain washed by the community,even though you say you are not a pua you must have reading problems .
Yes there is tons of guys who go out and don"t get laid but there is also tons of guys who do get laid .
Anonymous = Don't get me wrong, I'm not into pickup and the community. But assuming that you go out consistently and then you get women's signals is just bunch of BS. Why? Because that's what happened to me in my late 18s to mid 20s. I experienced it with my life and lots of guys I know.
Yes you are a pua I won"t won"t keep on with you .Keeo doing your cold approaches ,hammering common sense on a pua is useless !!!!
It's funny that you start name-calling me and giving the I'm-better-than-you attitude because you are avoiding my simple questions: what signals are considered as warm approaches?
DeleteA: "You guys should stop cold approaching!"
B: "So how do I know it's warm approach?"
A: "Who cares? Why don't you go out and figure it out yourself?"
B: "That means I gotta cold approach a lot then"
A: "Oh that means you're PUA. You suxxxx!"
See how stupid and arrogant A is?
Come on tards, this is basic social skills...
ReplyDeleteWarm signals:
- chick keeps hovering near you, for example she checks out the same aisles you do in the supermarket
- glances in your general direction over the shoulder
- fondles a piece of clothing as she looks in your direction
How to check for warm signals:
- glance in her direction or 2-3 seconds at a time, if she starts glancing back, smile
- get closer to her physically (check out same shelf in store), glance in her direction and smile, if she smiles back or start following you around the store, this is a warm signal
- wave in her direction
- say hi as you pass by her (don't stop)
General warmth:
(open to socializing in general)
Has open body language and her eyes wander around people, not the ground or a blank stare
Speaks loudly, uses expressive body language and facial expression ("look at me " actions)
Etc, etc etc - basic shit people
Basic shit to you can be new things for others to learn from. Don't be a douche just because you know more stuff than others. Or at least you think you know more stuff than others...
DeleteBut thanks for pointing out some warm approaches signals. I appreciate that.
Go to amazon
DeleteThe flirting bible explains these
Also "undercover sexual signals" by Leil Lowndes explains warm signals too.
Documentaries on human mating (where the tape bars and clubs) show and explain these... Preening gestures, glances, proximity tactics... Look for some BBC documentaries on mating in humans where there are hidden camera experiments with a fake bar etc...
Anonymous = It's funny that you start name-calling me and giving the I'm-better-than-you attitude because you are avoiding my simple questions: what signals are considered as warm approaches?
ReplyDeleteA: "You guys should stop cold approaching!"
B: "So how do I know it's warm approach?"
A: "Who cares? Why don't you go out and figure it out yourself?"
B: "That means I gotta cold approach a lot then"
A: "Oh that means you're PUA. You suxxxx!"
See how stupid and arrogant A is?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The guys above gave you a solid answer .
Jesus, I'm starting to wish I hadn't written anything now! The whole point of my contribution to this site was simply to give a clear example of how direct cold approaches only hurt my success with women. A tiny amount of common sense is all it takes to figure out what a 'cold' or 'warm' approach is. Can everyone please stop making such a ridiculous drama out of this? Cold approaching sucks and is creepy, period. The people who have tried it and are capable of admitting the truth of the situation are aware of this. If you are still defending 'cold' approaching, then either you are totally delusional about what is going on, or you are just plain lying through your teeth. Stop making things hard for yourselves; Christ knows life is difficult enough as it is! And stop this obsession with 'banging hot chicks'; while you're all going round telling each other not to put girls on a pedestal, you're doing just that by virtue of your compulsion to go 'sarging' all the time. It's a sign of immaturity and an attachment to your ego. Get some perspective, and attain some kind of balance in your life. Learn from the mistakes of others such as myself, instead of wasting your precious energy on defending a totally untenable position. You don't need to fuck hundreds of chicks; you'll be MUCH happier with a handful of emotionally stable women in your life who treat you well and don't turn you into some emotionally unstable 'playa playa'.
ReplyDeleteSheesh.
Come on people. If you can't tell the difference between going deliberately on the streets to approach any hot chick, and just happening to strike a conversation with a chick the vibe of whom you like, nobody can do anything for you.
ReplyDeleteCharles
My experience with "happening to strike up a conversation" type of scenario's are better then with "direct" type of scenario's.
ReplyDeleteWith direct type of scenario's I mean things like, giving a compliment or going up to a girl and starting off with telling I like to meet her or introducing myself.
Als my experiences are (statistcally) better: when I go up to a woman I have the feeling with (subconcious clues often) that she liked me at first sight. Although I also seem to be regularly off as well with it, statistically I do get better results compared to approaching 100% randomly.
That said.
I see no reason why not to sometimes/occassionally going up "direct" and/or "whithout any invite or clue of her liking my first sight" to a woman. Because you have nothing to lose anyways, and only to possibly (however unlikely) gain something.
But I would never make the above (direct and/or without any feeling of her liking me at first sight) type of game my default game/style.
My 50 cents, Scarface