It's not all fun and games, though as it is indeed the sad reality that too many clueless fall for the empty claims and promises of PUAs. The mere thought that a mentally healthy person could look up to a person like Vince Kelvin may be absurd to you, but if someone really is socially inexperienced, then I can understand that you can be tricked.
I did receive some interesting reader feedback. The guy wants to remain anonymous, but has allowed me to quote his statement in full:
Ripping on Vince Kelvin is truly a public service. Meeting him in LA began my decision to GTFO of "the Game" and actually meet a few psychologically healthy people.What ended it for good? Those photos from the Casanova Crew's Memorial Day picnic. Not a tit in sight. In a public park. In Los Angeles. On Memorial Day.
This made me laugh as well. "Anonymous reader" did add a correction later on, though:
Quick fact check: The Casanova Crew picnic was on July 25, 2010. Not Memorial Day. Still, there's no excuse for a bunch of "players" throwing a sausage fest in Griffith Park in the summertime....which I just mention for the sake of completeness, and because I am a bit anal about details.
It is indeed a problem that some guys are completely deluded. One picture is currently making the rounds among the anti-PUAs, and it is this one:
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| Thanks to "Tryhards" for digging up this picture! |
When I saw it, I was literally looking at it for something like ten seconds just to process it, before I erupted in boundless laughter. Reality really is stranger than fiction. I don't even know where to start here, but let me tell you once thing: If the guys in the audience had any clue, they'd get up and leave. I hope that just one or two among them figured out that something is seriously wrong here and stayed to watch this utter train wreck Vince Kelvin. Seriously, you've got some dude who tries his best to look like a fucked-up fifteen-year old, demonstrating pickup on a girl most butch lesbians would turn down. And you thought picnicking with the Casanova Crew guys was a bad idea...
Common Sleazy, I think you are being too harsh here. He looks really cute. If I was a hot chick, I would love to fuck a middle aged dude who dressed like that. I am surprised you don't think so. Clearly shows that you are totally out of touch with reality. Plus, looks aren't nearly as important as you seem to think.
ReplyDeleteWhat we believe is what we see and not that we should base our beliefs on what seems to be the reality. If you think you can look like that and get laid, then chicks will think the same. Frame control bro!
"Frame Control" and "re-framing" are concepts for which you have to be in awe of the PUA bullshitters. "Rejection doesn't exist" is one of the more ridiculous ones out there. I'll discuss another VK-specific "reframe" soon on my blog. I wanted to drop bashing this weirdo, but whenever I want to, I come across something else that is so utterly bizarre that I can't help but write about it. (Teaser: The new argument is "VK is an entertainer.")
DeleteThe thing is that Vince Kelvin is a weirdo amongst most gamers. Roissyites and Rooshyites spend days ripping him to shreds and making fun of them.
ReplyDeleteThose two are a lot more clever and intelligent in their scamming. It takesan idiot to "study with VK", but even otherwise rational guys fall for Roosh and Roissy... They're amazing writers and they tangle so much bullshit with "common-sense sounding pseudo-science" that it is hard to unwrap.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/another-game-concept-validated-personality-is-adjustable/
I mean see how he managed to thread bullshit together using very clever strawmen and politician-like manipulation. He even makes it sounds like anti-gamers are the delusional, irrational ones (by clever twisting, strawmanning etc etc...)
Roosh is a very average writer.
DeleteI dont think rational considerations make people leave game. I dont think noticing it does not work makes people leave game. That can always be rationalized away.
What makes people leave game is self-disgust. Eventually you just hate yourself for so hard to impress women. Game is very smart in explicitly making a point of denying that you are doing this, but that only works for so long. On some level our mind knows what you are doing, and you begin to become incredibly disgusted with yourself.
Back when your blog was open to the masses, Alek, I remember at least half - maybe more - of your anti-game posts were about how it is a disgusting thing to do whether it works or not. The psychological dimension was clearly hugely important to you.
As it should be for every self-respecting man. Which is the rub - some guys just dont have any self-respect, and nothing you do can give it them. They will never leave game. They are born to service females.
Paradoxically, I think reading Heartiste can get lots of men out of game At first reading Heartiste is very beguiling, you sink deeper and deeper into the mindset of trying to be macho. You deny that this is what you are doing so you can take it very far. Thats when self-disgust sets in. I remember just feeling really shitty after reading Heartiste, really weak. After a session of reading Heartiste I would go forth into the world trying very hard to be bad-ass and impress everyone with how bad-ass I was. I began to notice how this made me always come from a needy place of weakness when interacting with women.
So reading Heartise will make those guys with latent self-respect get out of game all the faster, and make those guys without it sink deeper and deeper into it.
Oh my, VK does look off, dont wear that t - shirt and show the beer belly, not good. Also I feel for the guys there, they probably thinking that they dont need to do exercise to get girls.
DeleteYou are right about roosh, he is not that great a writer. His book is poorly written. He aint going to win a pulitzer any time soon.
John, you are right about Roissy/hertiste.
I love that book, I would read it everyday, even the comments, I even copied the whole blog onto my harddrive. I thought he a prophet, what he said was so true. I was like one of his disciples, and blindly following him.
But after a while, and through reading guys like 60 and Aaron, I started to see game for what it was. I actually started to be disgusted with Roissy. Then it turned to pity. How can a man spend so much time on something which means so little. After a while, I just stopped reading it. Life is much better.
cani
The problem with both Roosh and Roissy is that I find their stuff impossible to read. In my not so humble opinion, Roosh is of a very average mind, but has illusions of grandeur that make his writings rather comical. Roissy, on the other hand, just makes you fall asleep. I tried reading a few of his posts, but I don't have much of a tolerance for bullshit and mental masturbation, and I wonder how anyone could bother reading that crap.
DeleteI misspoke. When I said "they're good writers", I meant they're effective at writing in such a way as to weave bullshit together in a convincing way.
DeleteRoissy/heartise does it by actually being a skilled manipulative writer, Roosh does it by being delusional.
The point is, even intelligent guys fall for Roosh and Roissy, whereas not even pua idiots fall for VK.
The problem with both Roosh and Roissy is that I find their stuff impossible to read.
DeleteI get it... it's like scratching chalk across your brain, it's painful to watch/read... It makes you cringe how bad and stupid it is.
That said - tough fights are never easy. Making fun of VK is hard, but doesn't serve much of a purpose.
Obviously meant "Making fun of VK is *easy*"
Delete@ cani
DeleteRight, after a certain point youre like *I cant believe this guy is still writing about this subject! And with the same passion and intensity, after all these years!* Its incredible. And to treat the subject of how to impress women, year after year, with such seriousness and passion, its just pathetic.
Heartiste can be a very good cure for anyone into game. It will get you more into game initially but after a while will just disgust you. Its like having someone addicted to smoking smoke 20 boxes of cigs in one sitting, the old overdoese cure ;)
To an extent it applies to us anti-gamers as well. We start off being passionate about our anti-gaming, but then most of us get it out of our system and have said everything we can say about it and just move on with our lives. It is only very few anti-gamers who can continue talking about it day after day after day, making the same logical points over and over again, responding to the same arguments over and over and over. How long can you do that for anyways?
If you look at the discussions over at seductionmyth, they are well past this point. It is just the same thing over and over again, it make you wonder how the same people can have the energy or even interest to say these same things over and over again. I suppose they are performing a useful public service, but I am suspicious even of anti-gamers who seem obsessed with it.
I used to post over at seducmyth and just litter the blogosphere with anti-game posts with great passion, now I am just so utterly blase about the whole thing.
I realize that anyone worth *saving* has it in them to save themselves, and there is already enough out there in on the web for anyone capable of being saved. No one will be *saved* by seeing some logical demonstration of why game does not work - it is a naive delusion to believe we humans are such rational animals. It has to come from within. There has to be a welling up of revulsion at trying so hard to be liked by indifferent and haughty women, and then you will find all the arguments you need for why it does not work.
In my own case I was already practically out of game when I came across all the *arguments*. At best they tipped me over the edge and delighted me with hearing what I already knew from others with the same experiences. Which is not unimportant. I suppose I should be glad a new generation is taking up the torch.
But for me, I just dont have the interest anymore, or just barely ;)
If you look at the discussions over at seductionmyth, they are well past this point. It is just the same thing over and over again
DeleteSedmyth died out weeks ago. It goes for long stretches without a single comment, unless a pua shill appears (once every few weeks).
Right now this blog (aaron's) is the most active. That's kind of the problem with anti-game... Anti-gamers have lives and get tired of it and move on... Every single one of the 30-40 anti-game bloggers has moved on.
The only anti-game blogger that hasn't moved on is Aaron, but that's because this is the blog's purpose and that's generally a side income. But I wouldn't be surprised if even Aaron gets tired too.
Seduction myth was good, had a lot of good articles, but then the comments were just getting too much and going over the same shit again. The same thing could be said about PUAhate.
DeleteI found plenty of websites, with lots of good info, that puts a lot of points about anti game forward, far better than I could. A lot are here (http://www.aaronsleazy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=877) plus attraction institute and aarons blog.
I do think Roissy, does write a bit much and is full of himself. But at the beginning, he did open mind to the possibilty that women are not all saints and perfect or men are just pussy and hopeless like the media portrays. That helped me a lot.
I do think, that Aaron, is doing a public service. He is helping people by warning them against the ills of PUA. So I do hope this site does stay on and provides more contradictions to PUA bullshit.
I understand that after a while you get bored of talking about anti game. Cause there really is not that much to talk about, interactions with women is very simply. I used to be addicted to writing on blogs and forums, thats why I dont visit any apart from aarons and good looking loser. I also block a lot of these sites, so I dont get hooked back in, as participating is addictive. I only write like once a week on aarons forum, the rest of the time its blocked.
cani
It's difficult imagine anyone falling for a seminar like that, but oh well . .
ReplyDeleteAaron, if you don't mind telling, is your current girlfriend German?
I remember reading that you are not particularly found of the local girls ;)
My girlfriend is not German. Where did I bitch about the local girls? I don't think I ever made a post about it.
DeleteHey man, my apologies if I misinterpreted information, I'm not sure where exactly I got that impression from, might have been the German thread on your forum, but again sorry dude
DeleteI wasn't clear enough. Sorry about that. I wanted to say that I am sure I mentioned here and there that I prefer foreign girls over Germans. I just wasn't aware that I was communicating it explicitly, like in a dedicated post. (It's true, German girls never were my first choice. It's not that I look down on them; I just find foreign girls more attractive.)
Delete