Friday, April 22, 2011

Vince Kelvin, the Joke is on you!

While going through my backlog of emails, I came across a hilarious video filmed in Los Angeles, home to the "Casanova Crew", which describes itself as the "largest active pick up artist community in North America". There was a time when they made more modest claims, and I'm sure by the rate the ego of their administrator J The Ripper is growing, he will soon claim to run the biggest forum in the universe.

The video is a collage of impressions from a talk given by "Vince Kelvin". Here's the link to those nine minutes of unintentional humor, but maybe you want to skip ahead and read my commentary first.

Metropolis Season 8, Ep. 2 - Pick Up Artists from Joshua Kun on Vimeo.

The link to the video was sent by James (thanks!). He commented:

I think this video might be better than ASS because its actually real with Vince Kelvin.
Guys are so easily impressed by nothing.. enjoy

What's the first impression you get of Vince Kelvin, if I may ask? I don't even want to comment, because I'd probably only come up with insults. Not only does the emperor not wear any clothes, his Jester does neither. Frankly, if you are 50 or older, you shouldn't pretend to be half your age. I'm sure he knows what it feels like to approach what looks like a 20 year old in a club from a distance, only walk closer and realize that she's probably twice that old. It's not a pleasant feeling, not unlike what is in a different field described as "uncanny valley". Something's just not right.

The speech is the typical song and dance in the community, hackneyed phrases, team-building exercises, and carefully avoiding the question why some guys don't get laid. However, if anybody in this group looks as if he can't get laid, it's unfortunately the speaker. But physical contact maybe prevents people from asking unnecessary questions.

Overall, the video is well-shot. In this scene, for instance, he looks as if he is impersonating Neill Stauss. I remember pictures of him in which he wears a rather similar outfit and even uses the same submissive gestures and posture. Funnily enough, it should be the buff guy telling Vince Kelvin how to score, not the other way round:

Now imagine your dad coming home looking like this:

The age gap is just too large. It's more like a father-soon constellation, but where in Vince Kelvin's speech or looks do you notice any signs of maturity?


The next scene shows him dancing with dudes. Shouting phrases in unison gets thrown in so that the guys feel as if they are part of something bigger than them. (Typical military brainwashing, also common in some business settings, and of course in cults, too.)

The next scene made me laugh hard: Vince Kelvin is simulating the old in and out with his fingers, and philosophizing that sex was the very first event in our lives.

Now it's time for some action. Witness some random fatties in LA:

But what's talking to women in the queue compared to creeping them out by shouting at them from the street?

Not even the proverbial fat friend had any interest in Vince. Just look at the size of that woman. She's literally two times as big as her friends put together. Wow!

Vince isn't deterred trifles such as weight and goes for her number. Judging from their evasive (body) language, it's fake anyway, but for chuckles, imagine that guy shagging the fattie. Should he get lucky, he may have the bad luck of getting smothered.

His students are actually watching in awe:

...and another girl quickly makes up to have a boyfriend. She is wearing flat shoes and his still taller than Vince. (Quick tip: go for girls that have the same skin color and are shorter than you. Easily quadruples your success rate.)

The next two girls were only shown from behind. I wonder why.

Am I dreaming or does this guy look like a cheap knock-off of Prince?

Check out the original:

Posing with another fattie. Well, given the fact that the guy running the Casanova Crew "lair" makes up some stuff about Vince fucking 14 women in as many days in his hotel, I wonder why this video is so devoid of interactions that go anywhere, and I'm not even talking about interactions with hot girls. Just sh*t like this:

Witness the only good looking girl in the video, but she ran away quickly:

This picture looks as if the guys are ganging up on Vince Kelvin to give him a beating. (Not only in this angle does he look very short, so you can't blame the camera for the impression.) But, instead they are listening with interest.

No, there is no need to comment on the physique of that woman:

Vince with his patented "I walk as if I have just shit my pants" walk. Ridiculous. Well, it turned out the girl had a boyfriend:

Another highlight of the video. In this scene he brags that despite having a boyfriend, the girl previously shown kissed him "on the corner of his lips". Next time he'll probably claim that a girl touching his shoulder means as much as her rubbing his crotch since it's totally almost the same part of the body.

Arithmetic exercises with Vince Kelvin. He claims to get "at least 50 to 70 phone numbers" a weekend. I'll let you figure out what's odd about harassing dozens of women a day, wasting a ton of time contacting them and, with a very big maybe, fucking just one of them.

So, what's the take home message?

I couldn't think of a witty one-liner, but here is some food for thought:
  • Dress your age, because if you get old without maturing, you look like a fool
  • If you are only seen asking fatties for phone numbers, you can still claim to get laid every single day and the typical Casanova Crew member will not call you out on your bullshit (Thus: California must be a gold mine for pick up companies)
  • Ask yourself how much time you have left on this planet. If it's just two decades or so, then maybe you should strive for something more fulfilling than chasing after overweight immigrants on Sunset Blvd. Seriously.


  1. Hey Sleazy,

    Your post on this is hilarious and honest. I think it will be hard for a video to really beat this documentary.

    A few things I would note -

    1) The intro is hilarious because it is pathetic. I don't think Vince can even raise his hand when he ask if there is any in the room getting phone numbers or laid regularly.

    2) I laugh everytime he starts playing music at 3:26. This "industry" is such a sham. First, these "talks" or "seminars" are held in someone's apartment, and they can't even afford to have a professional presentation.

    3) I agree with you that Vince Kelvin is in his own world. I don't think he knows how foolish he really looks with his style.

    4) He talks a big talk in the seminar. He even role plays with guys attending on what to say and how to touch girls (hold their hands, spin them and what not). But when he goes out to talk to the fatties, he isn't even doing it!! This guy is a bunch of talk. And the stuff coming out of his mouth is bullsh*t!

    5) At 6:24-7:00, I find it quite comical that he tries to open an attractive girl but she ignores him. Then instead of recognizing that it was a blowout maybe because she wasn't interested or he was weird, he lectures the students that they are bringing down the energy of the group and ruining his game. I think a lot of PUA Gurus use excuses like this so to minimize the risks of bad reviews.

    This video is a prime example of how the seduction industry is a real sham. Although I know the guys I learned from didn't do all those cult-ish dancing and chanting, some of them did come up with excuses and I know for a fact that some of the gurus open unattractive girls and get their number to impress students. Maybe a little known secret, maybe not. But it is true.

    You could tell on youtube videos Vince Kelvin was a weird guy with very little "game". But this video is just sad. Its no wonder Vince Kelvin's workshops are priced at a discount than other big PUA companies. Its the only way he can get guys to sign up.

    I feel bad for people that get into this self-help and get shammed by guys like Vince. There are a lot of Vince's out there. Its very unfortunate. I hope others find your blog post or recognize how terrible this guy is after watching this video.

    When will people learn? After they spend thousands of dollars and are still looking for the answers to their initial questions? :(

    Cheers mate

  2. Ahh, I forgot to also comment on how he says he gets all these numbers and he just got 3. Its so funny that he's shown saving a number into his phone and he's holding a business card. I think anyone with some experience in the field knows getting a business card is usually not a good thing.

  3. Thanks for those comments, and, again, thanks for sending me the link to the video.

    Yes, getting a business card is a very bad sign. Even if you have not much experience, this should become obvious when a girl that is really interested in you pulls out a business card to write her private number on its back.

  4. Wow, the parade of PUA horrors seems to know no end - and I haven't even watched the clip yet, just the pictures...

    I don't know why anyone with a bit of experience would still go for phone numbers (50 to 70??? Is this guy nuts?) when you know you should be able to seal the deal that moment - well, at least I am getting tired of gathering them already.

    Enlighten me about the business card though. One with a private number written on the back isn't bad, right? Or am I missing something?



  5. So, after watching the video, I'll answer your question: I think this guy is repressing the homosexuality growing from his lack of girls. I mean, he's more physical with guys than with girls! Man, I'd be freaked out if I were in that seminar.

    Also, these guys must be extremely desperate to not walk away from Vince in shame. I mean, come on, it can't be more obvious...

    By the way, someone know where this was filmed? Man, anyone ought to have a field day there picking up women - they all stay friendly to him, despite his totally weird attitude! Really, if girls are THAT nice towards weird guys like that, then any guy in the seminar would have no problem at all picking one up.

    And no, he could never have been my father, since my dad is much better with women. ;)



  6. JCZ - it was filmed on hollywood blvd at the highland center where there are a lot of tourist and people that come out to go to the bars and clubs. however the girls in this video do not seem like they would have been allowed entrance to any club. i have no idea where they are going. chances are they are going to wait in line the whole night. all of these girls in the video look like they are not from the area, hence why they seemed friendly. also none of them look like they would actually get hit on, again, why they are friendly.

  7. Hahha guys that video is hilarious! Vince is such a jerk...First impression that i got was: Is that guy not a gay fashion stylist? He seems like one.

    He's so terrible that its not even funny anymore: He does no teaching at all, just some shitty talking on girls and universe orgasm...

    Even when he walks down the streets with his "gang" what is he doing? Open sets with random stuff that goes nowhere and after rejections still try to be cool...
    I mean he's pretending to be a coach, w/o any skills and does not know what he's doing. Did he asks himself after each set: What impression had the girl from me? What could i improve for the next time? What was really my goal?
    He seriously should get beat up for pretending to be a coach and gets money for being in love by himself...

    But take a look at his clients: They're all not bad looking, honestly they're good looking and could be really successfull with girls, but they seem to be full of insecurities and a good coach should help them to get rid of them... The guy with the cowboy hat has a good lean body, great tan, good style, looks really handsome and good bang really hot chicks, but he has a look of confidence!
    The buff guy who's bald and has tattoos on his arms could be a biker and could bang hot biker chicks in their 30ies, but he seems to have a lack of self confidence as well...

    All guys seem so insecure, but Vince has no clue about that and does not even coach them. Where is he pushing those guys into sets, giving them constructive feedback and is right there in their sides for help/questions?

    Those guys would feel a thousand times better about themself if they would approach a cute girl and get blown out right away than shouting phrases in unison!

    And for the guy who said he would like to be like Vince: Do you seriously wanna be a guy, who seems to be not mature and has terrible success with girls, but being a dancing monkey?

    To be successfull you have to feel confident in your own skin, your own actions and be authentic and honest about your sexual drive!

  8. Yes, that guy looks like a corpse. And he's married, but teaching pickup? That is pretty weird. I already know one guy who took VK's bootcamp in San Francisco and hated it. Aaron, your disdain for Love Systems and RSD is well documented. Any opinion on DJ Fuji?

  9. The sad thing is that this guy is making a total joke of himself. He can't just go up to woman he is attracted to and simply say 'Hey I like you.' Instead he has to go in this completely over the top ridiculous clown-act. Seeing such a lack of belief in oneself and masculinity in any guy is sad, but when you see it in a fifty year old it is just utterly pathetic. I feel really sorry for this guy.

  10. Vince looks like a creep, but you have some vaguely racist remarks in your comments. Also, it's common for people in the USA to dress like that at that age. Especially in LA and especially for "entertainers." I also see women in their 40's in the same slinky dresses as 20 year old's and I love it.

  11. Thanks for all the comments, guys, and sorry for the late reply. I've been incredibly busy recently.

    First, I'd like to point out that the video disappeared from Vimeo. Apparently, the uploader figured out that what once was supposed to show of his skills as a director only ridiculed him.

    I know it's been a while, but I'll make a quick post to answer your question.

    I am not overly familiar with DJ Fuji. When I was in Chicago, someone brought up his name, and I wondered aloud whether his association with Mehow shouldn't discredit him at once, but a couple of people whose judgment I trust said to me that he was a legit guy. I just know too little about DJ Fuji to have formed my own opinion, though. However, if you have come across something fishy, feel free to forward it to me and I'll have a look at it.

    no, there are no "vaguely racist" remarks in my post. I've received similar other accusations from a couple of other guys, and if I find the time I'll comment on it in a separate post, because the issue of race is indeed relevant for pick-up. It may not be politically correct, but neither is whacking off to Internet porn. ;)

    Also: women in their 40s who dress as if they are 20? Sorry, not interested. As women grow older and less attractive, they should at least gain some dignity to offset this to some extent.,
    glad you enjoyed it. Once I got some more spare time on my hands, I'll swing by your forum again.

  12. his facebook is full of girls in his bed naked...and him making out with them...some are kinda hot too

    i agree that hes shit, but i think just the sheer volume of girls he approaches , he gets lucky

  13. Hey Pebble,

    thanks for pointing this out. I checked out his facebook but didn't see any naked chicks, just some he presses his lips against theirs. One actually looks a bit surprised, but not in a good way. ;)

    Sure, pick-up is a numbers' game. A guy like Vince may just have to work harder.

  14. Okay guys I agree that his one ugly mofo, he can be awkward, innaproriate at times or even creepy. His style is way out of the ordinary and not in everyones taste but it sure attract attention on(and it's better than mystery's style anyway). But if you are honest you gotta recognise at least his great sense of improvisation, his unexistant approach anxiety, how observant he is of verbal and visual cues from the girls, and most importantly his very quick and I gotta say ballsy kino escalation. And if you paid some attention to his conferances or interviews in youtube, it's obvious the guy have a lot of depth and is actually quiet brillant in the way he views social interactions and even lfie in general. So really instead of following your very first impression, and judging vince or any other person for that matter on his appearance, I think you ought to give it a bit more accurate look.

  15. Ztazen,

    I think you should watch the video again.

  16. Sleazy-

    The only other group of people I've seen who dedicate so much time to conjuring up reasons to hate other people are the ones trying to destroy Israel and America.

    You need to get a life, my friend.


    Ironically the only hottie at 8:07 runs away from this freak! Hahahaha! Anyone who has seen his in-field vids... you never see the girls' faces. Hmm.. I wonder why.

  18. You said that you approaching women your same height and skin color give you better odds?? So for instance, If a black guy was to approach an Asian woman... it will be more difficult because of race? If so, I find this to be true.

  19. This is a scenario I hadn't thought about before, but it sounds perfectly plausible. After all, Asian girls are known to have different preferences in the long and short term.

  20. He's actually gotten better since back then - saw him in the old Project Hollywood house that he is renting now, and it looks like back in Spring '11 he was still learning the whole PUA thing. He has integrated the style and material of a couple of 'gurus' and is now better than in the video - gotta say in the video he is hilarious and not very effective. What he doesn't tell the students is that his style and approach will not work for them, and he also doesn't tell them that his targets are usually not the girl-next-door types. He also falls into the trap of manipulating the students and pushing the fact that he is the teacher and they are the students - relying on his position of authority. Finally, his is purely a business venture with a veneer of pua skills. Seeing him is like seeing an infomercial at times.

  21. Sleazy you definitely got your name right because that is what you are. What is your problem with this guy. I just randomly came across this page and all you seem to be doing is hating on Vince. I saw nothing wrong with his videos. Even the greatest PUA in this community will get rejected a few times. If you notice in the videos he approaches the girls in his huge gang of boys, which is what scares them away, but he still manages a few numbers. Also go to youtube and search up vincekelvin and look at his channel. He picks up so many hotties and he even puts his failed attempts there too and does not hide them. I actually find vince kelvin as one of the best in the community. While everyone else is stuck making up fake stories about their lives and scripting convos, this guy actually goes in pretty direct on all his approaches and he is all natural. If you really have a problem with how much he sucks, then why don't you post some videos of yourself doing what he does.

    1. Maybe read through the article, and with a modicum of common sense you'll figure out what's wrong about Vince Kelvin and this kind of pick up. You say that even the "greatest PUA in the community will get rejected a few times", but this guy gets rejected over and over again. Not a single woman is interested in him.

      Your definition of pickup is wrong. It's not, "walking around, annoying random girls, and filming it." There is nothing "natural" about him. Seriously, how many fifty year olds do you know that dress as if they are 16?

  22. Apart from PU, Vince seems pretty entertaining. However, I don't see what type of value this type of event can have for the students. I mean, he says stuff that has little sense, shows pics of him holding hands with girls, does some impro theatre, and then leads a crowd of men to chant motivational songs. Then, he just has them witness as he goes pulling what probably comes off as hidden camera pranks on fatties. I can't even call it a scam, because it's not even credible: it's just out of another world. If it were for free, I'd probably tag along to have a good laugh, but I can't see how anyone would pay for this.

    And what the hell is wih all those fatties? Is there such a shortage of tasty women where the bootcamp took place?

    Seriously, if this type of video doesn't bring the fanboys back to reality, nothing will.

    1. "Hidden camera pranks on fatties" made my day! :)

  23. My boyfriend showed me this video, I just laughed. VK is so weird and creepy, and people are paying him to learn. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against older guys trying to hook up with women. But at least act and dress your age. He looks like he still shops at Forever 21. Is no wonder those girls are blowing him off. If he approached me, I would just laugh at him.

  24. That video is fucking funny. This guy has done way too many drugs. I use to go to his boot camps over three years ago. Complete waste of my time and money. We go around Hollywood and highland doing the same shit. Last seminar, he was rambling on like Charlie Sheen but with not tigers blood. He was completely out of it. Fuck that guy. What’s up with his hair? He looks like a clown. I think it great watching him get rejected by fatties. He use to think he was funny, but wow, what train reck. Keep up the good work Sleazy!!!!!

  25. Interesting feedback . . . I have had a couple of experiences with Vince. One quite positive and one completely the other way!!

    1. Peter,

      feel free to share your story. Either post it here, or send me an email:

  26. I used to think Vince was ok. He is someone who at least has a go . . . even if I now see the ego and power game in his systems and business. I spoke at his seminar in LA and after flying 10,000 kilometres he last me standing outside his house for 25 minutes as part of some silly power play move. (In Australia we just let people into our homes when someone visits us) and he gave me all of 16 minutes on stage. And I had probably one the the most professional presentations backed up with photos and videos there. But the crowning move was when I by chance met a girl who as staying at his house at a bar in town and hooked up with her. Well, for a guy who reckons he can get dozens of numbers a sleeps with 10 girls in the days, he went absolutely ballistic. Called the girl about 10 times, virtually tried to force her to go back to his house . . . Then he called me at 3 am to try and get me to bring the girl back to his house. And, after I didn't, he turned up at my hotel pool the next day (The roosevelt in Hollywood) with his sidekick and threatened me. He told me I did not know who I was f**** with and that I would never be invited back into USA to any other events. For a guy who is SOOOOO good, it was a pretty jealous and immature response and his hospitality and manners to guests was pretty much ZERO!! Which tells me more about a person that all the talk in the world . . . By The Way I am the person known as "The sweater" in the book by Neill Strauss called the Game. And I have just published my own book called "The Love Game" How to meet and date all the most beautiful women you ever wanted . . . even if you are old, shy and ugly!! (I am 55 years old with 5 kids and 3 ex wives ha ha )

    1. Thanks for sharing this story. I couldn't see the part about Vince Kelvin that's positive, though.

      Do you want me to put it on the front page of my blog? I think this kind of testimonial should be put in front of a larger audience.

    2. Also, being "Sweater" you are probably a minor celebrity in the community.

  27. Well, the first time I met Vince was in Sydney and I thought his talk was actually pretty good. He also gave me a set of his videos when I offered to pay him as I was also spacing there for an hour at my friends Alex's seminar (My first talk ever). This was also nice. So I thought he was ok. But in LA I found he was very different. He talks about "brotherhood" and helping each other, but I think he means "Vince Kelvinhood" and helping Vince pick up. In Australia with friends, if you have a girl with you then the extra girls can surely be allowed to be free agents to go with your friends?? I often bring extra girls to parties and boat trips that ends up with other guys, but that's what its about!!! Vince promised me a limo party, girls etc and delivered ZERO. And when I got my own, he gets pissed. (I slept with 4 girls in 8 days and had girls back at my hotel every night. And very few (If any) guys can get 10 out of ten unless they are Brad Pitt and really famous and even then not EVERY girl will sleep with you. Which actually is never a problem with me if I am having a good time with them!! But I don't make a big deal out of it. And always try to help my friends. So this was a bit of a shock to me!! 4 girls that I met actually went to a party hosted by one of the over speakers and near Vince's house and told me that it was really weird vibe. With all the guys asking thee weird things . . . And they wished they came out to dinner with us. :)

    PS. I wish I could send you the photos of the girls I was with in the last 4 days to show you the type of girls we bring to OUR parties and set up our friends with!! It leaves Vince's for dead!!!!

    PPS. If you want to put it on the front page I am fine with that. I was very disappointed with Vince and took a reference and photo of him out of my book after that!!

    1. Thanks for the info! I'll see what I can do about a blog post. Vince Kelvin left some nasty messages on my facebook wall a while ago, so I think I should give him some more publicity. ;)

  28. Hey All,

    I shot and edited this video for a Dutch TV broadcast completely independent from the PUAs (never met Vince before that night), and I've gotta say that you guys as a whole take yourselves waaaaay to seriously. The guy is an entertainer! Give him a break! He enjoys making people laugh, whether it be his students, or the bbws he meets on the street. I sure as hell laughed my ass off from behind the camera...

    At least he puts himself out there, and doesn't dedicate who knows how many hours putting someone else down to promote himself. Ahem*

    Glad you thought my video was important enough to take all those screen shots from though!


    1. Josh,

      I'll discuss your comment on my front page. Brace yourself.

  29. Wow !! Its good to hear from Sweater after so many years. I wondered what happened to him. Good to know he is thriving and picking up chicks.

    Sweater is important to the community as he gives hope to the seniors.He has an important function to fulfill. Good to know about his book.We need to hear more from him.

    But Vince's behavior has been atrocious if what Sweater says is true. There is something seriously wrong with his oneitis behavior.Last person I will expect to have oneitis is a pua guru.

    Vince is trying the rock star look.He puts himself on the line unlike other teachers.The only thing jarring is he has still not erased the accent.But cut him some slack. The guy is over 50 for God's sake.He is trying to pick up 20 or 30 year olds.Try doing that when you are over fifty.

    1. Yes, he is trying but apparently not succeeding. What makes more sense in such a situation: keep banging your head against the wall or trying a different approach?

  30. Vince looks and talks gay as fuck, lol. Almost as gay as Neil Straus.


  31. Video is gone but article is hilarious. Was watching this embarrassing video: of 'Dizaster' freestyling and stumbled upon this pickup artist nonsense/scam. Googled Vince Kelvin and your article comes up as the second highest result, congrats!

    1. It's too bad the video is down. I guess it was just too embarrassing for them. Well, thankfully I took some screenshots. ;)

      I'll have more on Vince Kelvin pretty soon, too.

      The video you liked is cringe-worthy, and it's actually a bit depressing to watch. On the other hand, Vince is a guy you just laugh about.


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