Saturday, July 20, 2013

The Ambiguous Signals of Women

There have been some heated discussions in the comments to Sexual Harassment vs Dating in the Real World I and Sexual Harassment vs Dating in the Real World II. Some feminist tried to defend standard female behavior of not clearly indicating disinterest and therefore leading guys on. There was a consensus that women, when it comes to dating/mating as opposed to mere socializing, often don't clearly show when they are not interested, but also when they are. It's all too convenient for feminists to excuse "female laziness", as Alek Novy calls it, and demand of men to read the mind of women. However, since women hardly ever make the first move, this step is up to you. But beware: feminists are quick to cry "Sexual harassment!!! Attempted rape!!!!". Compliment the wrong girl on her dress, and you've sexually harassed her.

Presumably any man no matter how good or bad looking has experienced that a "no" from a woman can mean "yes, but you've got to jump through some stupid hoops first", while a "yes" can easily mean "no, but I'll lead you on anyway and cancel our date for next week five minutes after the meeting time". It's easy to see why men are getting fed up with this. Of course, then there are all the girls who play games on principle. Let's say she's flirting heavily with you in some social setting. You call her up the next day, and then she brings up some bullshit excuse. But because you've got more women lines up, you don't bother and move on. If you happen to have some mutual friends, you may now hear that "Jennifer totally wanted you to take her out. Why didn't you take her out then?" If you now say that you don't like girls that play games and, in fact, prefer those that don't, you immediately become the asshole, of course.

Think about how much less of a pain dating would be if women learnt to clearly say "yes" or "no". Paraphrasing Alek Novy, "How come that something a two-year old can do is too challenging for an adult woman?" Part of the reason is surely that the average woman has her head full of bizarre dating advice such as, "Call him ten minutes before the date to ease him into talking to you." (I had this happen to me years ago and looked it up afterwards.) I don't know what kind of idiot came up with that, but if you're sitting in your car, looking for a parking spot, and a chick wants to make small talk starting with a dose of guilt-tripping because she poor social skills and also because she just has to be true to herself, like with, "Are we still meeting at X? I\m on the way but I'm kinda worried since you confirm again  earlier today.", I can understand if you think, "screw this shit!, turn your car around and drive to the nearest strip club or brothel instead.

It's not just bullshit dating advice or the "wisdom" of their friends that gets in their way: "Betty, this one time there was this one guy and I did this and it totally worked out and he came over and it was, like, sooo good!" Listening to a group of young women is dangerous since it may make your head explode with all their hasty generalizations and wild speculations. However, another issue is that many women want to be popular. Since their are two sexes, she can only choose from her scatter-brained and back-stabbing girlfriends, or from some guys who are afraid to make a move. Of course she would feel even more popular if she had some male friends, so she may be tempted to go down that road.

The obvious question then is how to get male friends? I think those women who are at least kind of cute looking know that guys are primarily interested in them for their sexuality and not so much because of their elaborate views of, say, the discrepancy between image and reality of contemporary Western "democracy", i.e. "post-democracy", or their in-depth knowledge of state-of-the-art machine learning algorithms. No, normally girls are well-aware of the fact that whenever a guy comes talk to them outside a professional setting --- and even that distinction sometimes can't be made in case of sales girls or trade-show hostesses --- it's primarily not because he thought that you're so awfully smart but because he'd like to check whether he's got a shot at you.

However, what is a girl to do that can only bring her sexuality to the table? It turns out that one option is to dangle her sexuality like carrot on a stick in front of those guys and string them along. Guys with less of a spine can be taken for quite a ride, not only giving the girl attention for months or years, but also dropping several grand on her, but not in exchange for sex but for her "company". This is what she says to herself. Of course, he wants to get laid. What does this lead to? To a justification for ambiguous signals since this allow her to enjoy both the attention of guys, and potential monetary favors, while also providing enough plausible deniability for her to excuse her behavior. She couldn't play this game if she was honest about her intentions.

This leads me to a relevant comment by Manuel Santiago from Sexual Harassment vs Dating in the Real World I:
When we call women, text them, take them to dinner, spend time with them, it's fucking obvious we're sexually interested in them, unless we had previously established some sort of friendship (in which case, it's the man's fault for not coming out clear and early in his intentions, if any, of having more than a friendship). On the other hand, women act this way with men to get favors from them or just to be goddamn social, and it's not a minority. 
Before feminists and feminist shills now cry "sexism!", let me just state that this can work both ways. My female "friends" all disappeared when they learnt that I'm actually not available or "really" have a girlfriend. Personally, I don't think that men and women make very good friends. It's certainly my experience that whenever a girl tried to befriend me it was because she thought she could get me in the long run, somehow. This can lead to all kinds of drama, including bizarre scenarios where apparently all her friends "know" that you've been tapped and that they are all convinced that it will all happen somehow, somewhere. Fast forward six months and you're the asshole again because she bumps into you in the club and sees you with some other girl, and the last words you'll say to her before she disappears from your life while trying to make a scene are, "Are you fucking crazy? All I ever did was talking to you." Why, oh why did I never encounter the alleged "sixth sense" women are claimed to have? Seriously, girls, why does all your "female intuition" only exist in pop-psychology?

What do you think? Let me know in the comments below!


  1. Concerning the "sixth sense" (the famed "female intuition"): it is indeed an illusion, more precisely a psyop booby trap designed to fool men into seeing strength were there is weakness. On the other hand, it is indisputable that women act upon powerful animal instincts. But do not try to find "subtleties" or "intelligence" behind those as women like to claim, it's just a primitive urge to act in a given way, it's a dumb mechanism.

    Why are you trying to find some logical meaning to this behaviour? As far as I am concerned all this is nothing but a coded warning: "We women are individually and collectively hopelessly batshit crazy." I conclude that it is madness to let them have power on their own, there should at least be some male supervision upon them, because without it they behave like headless chicken acting upon one instinctual urge after the other.

    The real issue here is: why do we have to re-learn those time tested wisdoms? What led us to forget what was common knowledge just a century ago? How will we re-establish those wisdoms? Why do we live in times where women are dangerously overestimated and men hopelessly underestimated?

  2. "This can lead to all kinds of drama, including bizarre scenarios where apparently all her friends "know" that you've been tapped and that they are all convinced that it will all happen somehow, somewhere. Fast forward six months and you're the asshole again because she bumps into you in the club and sees you with some other girl, and the last words you'll say to her before she disappears from your life while trying to make a scene are, "Are you fucking crazy? All I ever did was talking to you.""
    Well, what did you expect? You denied her right (in her mind) to a relationship with you.

    - Did she at any point in time try to further the relationship with you, i.e. talk to you, phone you, invite you to shit?
    - Where was her allmighty pussy power?
    - Did you sleep with her? (Just checking, if she got chick-justification for you owing her a relationship.)

    1. Short answers: yes, nowhere, no.

      The last question is particularly interesting. I think a lot of women believe that once they fuck the guy, especially after the usual "three dates" thing, he is an asshole if he doesn't want to become her boyfriend. However, depending on the experience and age of the woman, they can harbor some rather absurd ideas. Especially younger women who lack experience (due to their age), and less attractive women of all ages with less experience (due to their looks or attitude) tend to live in a fantasy world. Yes, I've been asked by common friends whether it was true that I was now "seeing" some particular girl because she's been telling this around (possibly also with the intention to put more pressure on me). Then again, I guess the behavior of those women is not unlike inexperienced men who fall in love with a waitress who smiled at them because it's part of her job and it leads to higher tips, or who view some chick they take out to dinner and have had no sexual contact whatsoever as their "girlfriend".

      Less attractive women can be really obnoxious in their behavior, particularly as they get older and more desperate. In social circle settings or in the club they tend to interpret your friendliness completely the wrong way. I've also had it happen that women knew I had to be friendly to them in a given setting (going out or hanging out with friends and acquaintances), and used this as an excuse to almost force themselves upon me. Situations include: you sitting on a sofa, talking to someone, and suddenly that chick sits down next to you and nonchalantly puts her hand on your thigh, and you wonder what she's been smoking. Getting hit on by unattractive women is utterly revolting.

    2. "The last question is particularly interesting."
      What makes your writing interesting for me is, that it seems we had some similar experiences. And when you tell stuff, more often than not I can relate with a (fresh) experience.

      Recent example:
      "Situations include: you sitting on a sofa, talking to someone, and suddenly that chick sits down next to you and nonchalantly puts her hand on your thigh, and you wonder what she's been smoking. (...)"
      I was sitting on a chair in the sun, drinking a beer and talking to some people I know. Suddenly a married chick arrives who knows the people I'm with and suddenly gets all handsy with me. Though not ugly she wasn't attractive either and I surely wasn't encouraging her.

      On a side note: You never see feminists criticising this if the "perpetrators" are female.

  3. @Aaron, i can definitely see what you stated; for men with quite above average success with women it is indeed known that you're the ones dealing with the female version of the "friendzone", with its obvious difference from that of men. That difference more or less is what i said in my original comment: if a man gives a girl so much attention, he wants sex, deep down or in the surface (even if we acknowledge that women are in general less wise and aware than they claim, we tell our sisters, daughters, cousins and our real female friends ALL THE TIME); if the woman is the one wanting to spend time with you, you can't be sure about anything, so if you want her as a friend, you're comfortable assuming she wants a friendship too, especially if the hanging out goes on for a long time.

    Another thing i wanted to say is related to the "stringing along of men" for platonic friendships. As a man who was concerned about a lack of female true friends, in my experience you cannot bond with a woman (or even most men, for that matter) to the point of developing a true friendship through texts, Facebook, hanging-outs for drinks or any of the other crap you use for sexual interests. You need to have experiences together, be them traumatic or joyful, to bond. That's why most men get their female friends through school, work, family acquaintances, summer camps and the like. This, which should be obvious, some of us have been oblivious to in certain situations, hence the women who like to string along men get away with it. You can't have true frindships with these women, or any woman who you're sexually interested in and who you haven't had any bonding experience(s) with. I've learned the hard way that you're better off erasing them from your life right away.

  4. How do you be happy and cope with disillusionment with women, dating, and society?

    How do you be happy and cope with being unhappy with your appearance and jealous of attractive?

    I feel like MGTOW is the anger part of the stages of grief, but you still carry resentment and scars in your heart.

    1. Huh? I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to say. However, rest assured that I am a happy and content person.


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