Sunday, September 21, 2014

Guest Post: Roosh spends $6,500 per Lay

It's been a while since I spent time writing on alleged pickup gurus, and I don't think I'm going to spill any more ink on that topic. However, I recently received an email by a disgruntled follower of Roosh who did some back-of-the-envelope calculations and questioned what that guy actually writes. This reminded me of when I pointed out that "Style" was teaching game before he was even getting laid using Mystery Method and when some morons asked me for a source, I told them that it he says so himself in his book. Anyway, here is Exposer with a note on Roosh.

 Pick-up Guru Roosh Seduces Five Women Per Year

When Roosh wrote his self-proclaimed "game bible" Bang, he made $60,000 per year, which is a good salary for a 27-year-old biologist. After taxes, he's got around $45,000 left. After saving $13,000 to travel, he spent $32,000. He calculated his "True Cost Per Notch" as $6,500.  That means he slept with only five women that year. If that sounds unimpressive, realize that Bang concludes "an average player ... will get 3-8 notches in a year" and "will score a one-night stand once in a blue moon." By his own reckoning, Roosh was pretty average.
Ironically, his book 30 Bangs explains that half his notches do not come from cold approaching women. Instead, he had affairs with a coworker, social circle fix-ups, blog groupies, and women who approached him.  On his vaunted Ukraine trip, he just stuck with an English-speaking girlfriend he met at work. Even his prime advertisement for Bang shows that success comes when women approach him:

One night we went out to a club ... when a girl came up to my friend and said he was handsome. She was fat and ugly but she had a few friends with her, one of whom was very pretty.

The point is that Roosh, or pretty much anybody, could effortlessly sleep with a couple of average women per year. Instead, he cruises until 4:00 a.m. in pursuit of "Craig's list fatties" and "monstrous", "ugly", women who were "too drunk to legally consent," and sex that "did not meet expectations." It seems like a lot of effort to get just a few extra one night stands. Is this the idol you want to look up to? No wonder he's so negative about women.


  1. Hum... yes but in 2009 it was 1400$ per notch. So that means at least 22 notches in 2009. Which is really good.

    1. Did Roosh state this anywhere, or do you just pull those numbers out of your ass? Exposer quoted Roosh, so you can verify this yourself.

      Besides, if you think that paying $1400 for a "notch" is really good, you need to get your head checked.

    2. Hum... wow ! No need to be so aggressive ! I am totally anti-PUA and I really like your philosophy about pick-up. Where did you see an aggression in my message ?

      In the video Roosh says he spends 30'000 $ per year. In the second link he says that for first 5 month of 2009 he spent 1400$ per notch. If he kept the same rhythm for the whole year (let's assume that), it means 30000/1400 = 22 notches.

      22 notches in 1 year is good.

      He also says that true cost per notch = "The true cost per notch is your total expenses for life divided by girls banged."

      So yeah 1400$ per notch is good. He could also had a true cost per notch of 30'000$ if he chose to have 1 girlfriend for the whole year. So I don't really think it is very useful to calculate that...

      I was just trying to be objective.

      But wow, still felt attacked by the tone of your message.

    3. The problem is that Roosh dedicates an extremely large part of his life to chasing girls. It's one thing if you're a normal guy who goes out once a week and gets laid once or twice a month. If you enjoy going out, then sex comes at no additional cost. But what does this calculation look like if you move abroad in the hope of finding some pussy paradise?

    4. Guys whom I consider "good with women" get laid pretty consistently, in as much as that their number of sex partners is pretty much a function of how often they go out. Roosh's number of "5 to 8 notches a year" is for a guy who is trying really hard but who can hardly be called a player. You're good, really good, if you can get laid about every second time you go out and, importantly, without much effort. Staying out until 5 am. and hitting on chicks from the bottom of the barrel doesn't make you good with women, no matter how often you succeed when you're doing this.

    5. Roosh probably spent less than 1400$ per month. He lived in his father's basement, rode a bicycle, stole drinks, and owned only one pair of pants.

    6. "In the video Roosh says he spends 30'000 $ per year. In the second link he says that for first 5 month of 2009 he spent 1400$ per notch. If he kept the same rhythm for the whole year (let's assume that), it means 30000/1400 = 22 notches."
      Roosh also says in the video that he makes more than 60.000 $ a year. I call bullshit on that and won't believe it until I see proof. Just taking a quick look on his other videos, the way he dresses in what looks like marketing gifts from 2002, the aged look of his electronics equipment, no watch, no necklace no nothing, his sex tourism to 3rd world countries etc. His devout followers of course buy every word he says. Yeah, income from ad revenue from a shitty site which links at the moment to a self help book about porn addiction. And his book sales for ultra niche-market books... But they sale for 10 $ a piece! Yeah, but he doesn't get 10 $ a book, he gets about 1 $ per book if he's lucky. That's 60.000 books sold. Annualy. Jesus, how gullible can his followers be.

      "He also says that true cost per notch = The true cost per notch is your total expenses for life divided by girls banged."
      Roosh doesn't see the huge problem in this statement. This alone should tell you enough about him.

    7. So what about Paul Janka who fucks 23-25 women per year doing that every day ?
      Bad player too ?

      Source : himself in "Getting laid in NYC" (he says 70 women in 3 years)

    8. I wish people like you would spend two minutes doing research before wasting my time. We've been talking about Janka before. In fact, I hold him up as one of the very few with a sane approach to dating. In 'Getting Laid in NYC' he lays out how he does it: spending hardly any time on any interaction, just one or two minutes, and then mass texting in the evening, followed by focussing on the first who bites, and making the interaction count. This is so far removed from Roosh that you would have to be an imbecile to claim that they are in the same boat.

    9. If you feel like you are wasting your time answering me, then feel free not to answer me.

      So Paul Janka spending 2 minutes with 1 woman is not a waste of time, but you spending 2 minutes answering me is a waste of time...

      I knew your point of view on Paul Janka, one of the rare PUA that is honest. I just wanted some more precision because I feel like Janka is doing this at least 2 hours per day. He says he spend 2 minutes per interaction, but how long does he have to wait to spot a girl that he likes ?... He says nothing on that. Some days, I only spot 5 decent women during the whole day and get 2 numbers. Sure, I spend only 3-5 minutes on these interactions. So I could say : "10 minutes of work to get 2 numbers ! Easy !" But here is the secret : "But I must wait 30 minutes before spotting a woman that I like." It feels a little bit like a waste of time. So I was more interested in saving my time and doing warm approaches now, which is the reason that I liked your blog and books.

      Why did you write books and a blog if you don't want to answer people that are genuinely interested in what you have to say ? Maybe it's the internet and you think my tone is aggressive but not at all, I'm just curious.

    10. The number of people in NYC the busy parts of downtown Manhattan is absolutely staggering. If anything, a guy doing Paul Janka's kind of game will have to learn to quickly decide which woman to approach, because you could easily spend hours glancing after the next hot woman that walks past you. Shibuya in Tokyo, from what I've been told, is quite similar. Otherwise, there really aren't that many places on this planet that are like that (no, Leicester Square or Oxford St in London is absolutely not like NYC). So, do you live on the Upper East Side or not?

    11. I live in Europe.

      Some days, I approach women when I'm doing my daily things (I'm doing my things and I notice a woman that I like so I approach her, talk 5 minutes and then I go back to my things). I usually approach 1 woman per day and get her number half of the time with this kind of "session". This doesn't feel like a waste of time.

      But some other days, I just decide "this afternoon I'm going to approach from 3 pm to 7 pm" and I usually go home with 3 numbers. I go to the train station where there is an enormous flux of people. Even with this enormous flux of people I sometimes have to wait 15 minutes before approaching the next woman. I could approach more women but they are in a rush and not very open to be approached. I already tried to approach indiscriminately every women : the reaction are so bad and the number ratio is so low (like 10% of the women gives their number), these numbers are more flakey too. This totally feels like a waste of time.

      I wish every day could be "approach-when-I'm-doing-my-things" day but I cannot rely only on these days because at this pace I would only get laid once in a blue moon.

    12. You can't compare train stations, where people have to go somewhere, with a place like Union Square. There is a reason why Paul Janka called his ebook 'Getting Laid in NYC'. I don't think day game is a particularly good idea to begin with, but if there is one city in the Western world where I can see it work well, it's NYC.

    13. Thanks for your answer.

    14. Janka was a tall, handsome, Harvard grad who ran errands in Manhattan. He didn't waste time loitering; he just approached women for 2-5 minutes in the course of his day.Then he text-blasted 20-60 numbers in late afternoon, arranged drinks nearby, bounced to his apartment, and escalated aggressively. It was a logistically efficient way of screening.

  2. I just happened to stumble across your site and have to say it's pretty cool.

    I just read "debunking the seduction community" and couldn't stop laughing.

    For years I had the "real" attraction builders down but was just a bitch. As soon as I dropped the funny guy game/PUA bullshit I started killing it with hot women. Looking good+being able to talk=hot women

    Such a shame guys piss away tons of money on ebooks and boot camps from guys who don't get laid either.

    No one can honestly tell Yad or Tom Torero from pull hot girls. Hot girls I've had in the last year would NEVER touch either of those guys, regardless of the "game" used.

  3. Not that Roosh is just a character to lough at loudly, apparently the few remaining folks over at "LoveSystems" recently have come up with – I kid you not – a "Breakup Survival Guide" … moowahahaha!

    I mean, just take a loo for yourself guys – the very trailer for the product (for shitty 39.95$… still massively overpriced ;) does border on being a piece of real-existing SATIRE:

  4. Roosh makes money by chasing women and writing about it. Of course he will spend a lot of time on it.

    1. Sure, chasing women --- getting laid, not so much, it seems.


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