Tuesday, December 1, 2015

The Open Thread: December 2015

Since I get a relatively high number of comments that are tangential to the articles, I'd like to try to move those parts of the conversation to the monthly 'Open Thread'.

In short, it you think anything you're going to write is "off topic" to the current post, but still related to pickup, women, gender politics and other topics I discuss on this blog, then please leave a comment to the most recent Open Thread, such like this one. Just post below.

Thank you.


  1. Hi Aaron,

    Recently I completed reading your book 'Club Game' over a weekend.

    Since learning about seduction, many seduction techniques have been tried and experimented with, some with little success and others with more over the past 6 years.

    After having reading 'Club Game', I realised that I had been ignorant of signals of female interest. Not all signals, just most.

    Over the last several weekends since reading 'Club Game', I have gone to nightclubs that I'm dressed very well for (as I usually do) near where I live in a major city in Australia, by myself and not drinking (as I usually do).

    I noticed alot more Approach Invitations/Signals of Interest based on the descriptions of signals in your book that I may have otherwise ignored.

    However, I found that I was receiving approach invitation/multiple signals of interest from alot of women, but there were some differences that were not described in your book:

    1. Most of the signals were when girls were dancing closely with guys (who I would later find out were their guy friends), almost like they were using them as an excuse when I reflected on their actions later. How do you deal with this?

    2. Many of the heavy signals came from girls who would dance with their back to me, but very closely interlocked with the one girl they they were with. How do you deal with this?

    3. Their would be one girl in a group of 2 or 3 or more who I could see in my peripheral vision would 'girl code' each other with their eyes and then stand close to me.
    I wasn't interested in that girl, so another girl in the group would subtly change places with each other until the one I was interested in eventually took their place. So, they would basically all throw signals at me until I indicated interest in one of them.
    I think this is a rare case, as I found that several other times I would get signals from the girl I wasn't interested in but persisted when it looked like their better looking friend(s) want to tag in.

    4. I found that if one attractive girl deliberately gave me proximity and other signals, I would have 2 or more separate groups of other girls moving in to compete.

    I now see more than ever that women are extremely perceptive of body language and giving/receiving signals, even when they have been drinking.

    My question is, how do you, Aaron Sleazy, signal a woman to approach you OR signal that you are receiving her signals but she's making it hard to act on them while dancing tightly with her guy or female friend and to make it easier for me to approach her in a more ideal position without damaging her social proof? (other than eye contact). Many times I would be talking to someone, then wait for them to break off from their friend but they would quickly go to another friend to do the same thing or the whole group of girls would all move together.

    How do you practice viewing women in your periphery?

    Also, I understand from reading Sleazy stories and your old mASF posts that you do something to get the attention of women in a venue to draw those signals throughout the night. What are they?

    You also didn't mention if you take the time of the evening into consideration with regards to the rhythm of the club other than ideally not attempting to pickup at or close to closing time but there can sometimes be good opportunities then too.

    Are you also social with people in the club earlier in the night, then take action on signals later in the night?

    I would appreciate some guidance on the above questions based on your experience.


    1. 1) A girl looking at you while she is dancing with her boyfriend normally wants to make her guy jealous. Also, among certain groups, women get off of having their bf beat someone up, which is certainly a risk if you approach a chick who is with such an "alpha".

      2) The book clearly describes how to react to signals, with plenty of examples.

      3) This could just be attention whoring. Girls often do that around guys who look insecure.

      4) That's a related case. Just make a move already. As I said, if you are perceived as being insecure, girls are sometimes a bit more outgoing.

      Your question is odd. It is your task to approach the woman.

      I don't get the question about the signals I draw. Height and clothing make you stand out, for obvious reasons.

      Well, a guide book can't take all possible permutations into account, due to space limitations, and because it would be dreadful to read. However, Club Game is, in my opinion, and based on the feedback I have received, a very useful guide. Do note that I write very early on that I expect readers to have a modicum of experience, which entails being able to approach women. Otherwise, this material is just above their head.

      In Club Game I also talk about "being social".

  2. What are your thoughts on Russian/FSU women?

    A lot of people on game forums talk up eastern europe and its women as a pussy paradise, but I think they're just exhibiting a huge grass-is-greener syndrome.

    1. Well, it's easy to look at pictures of Russian gold diggers online and fantasize that all Russian women look like that, and don't even want a husband with money. I would say that if you are very well-off, you have access to women of a high quality basically everywhere. Frankly, in the West, you won't do that badly if you are reasonably attractive, do kind of okay for yourself, and are not a complete social retard. On game forums people also fantasize, for instance, that "all" American women are ugly, and so on.
      I don't really know what those "gamers" even want. It seems that fantasizing about foreign women, while not having the means to travel, is simply comforting to them, since they can keep dream about their ideal future life, instead of talking to women in their area.
      I am tempted to say, based on my skewed perception from limited travels to FSU countries, and meeting expats as well as exchange students in Europe, that those women look better than the natives.

    2. I always found it extremely weird that ALL American are either whales, whores, or dogs according to the manuresphere. Having been to the US multiple times before, I can confirm they have no clue what they're talking about!

      I also find it odd that some of these guys seem to think there's "that one place" and if they could just somehow get there then all their problems with women would be solved. I've always been more of the mindset that, for the most part, a guy's results shouldn't change too much from location to location. Obviously things like male:female ratio, social norms for the city/country, how you match up to the local men, etc., etc., factor into things but how could a guy do well in a city in a large non-US city and then head to a US city and suddenly turn into a complete dud? I highly doubt Aaron's results when he was clubbing would have varied that much had he been in the US instead of Europe.

    3. @simpleguy, I disagree. Location does make a difference. Changing the club/bar/party you go to can make a huge difference in your results. And so can changing the country.

      While the manuresphere might be making it into a religion, to go the other extreme and claim "location doesn't make much difference" is just as ridiculous IMO.

    4. @Alek

      Perhaps I didn't word that so well, but a well rounded guy is a well rounded guy regardless of the country/city he's in. Obviously factors like sex ratios, how well you match up the local men, and social norms are important and one can expect some variances from location to location but if you can't meet a SINGLE one women in city A why would city B be any better?

      What I was really criticizing more is the manosphere's theory of writing off cities with millions of people since a member or two did poorly in a small section of a large city! How could you not meet a SINGLE woman in city with millions of people?

  3. Hi Aaron,

    Thank you for your reply.

    As stated earlier, the men/boys they were with were not their 'boyfriends', just friends who are guys. I knew this at the time and confirmed later. I have been in the situation before and it certainly was not something the girl(s) were doing to incite a fight between their male friend(s) and me.

    It sounds as though you're implying that I appear to be insecure to girls giving signals. I am certain this is not the case. I wouldn't get any approach signals if it was and I get alot. I'm dressed very well, well groomed, tall (6" foot), in good shape, with minty fresh breath. I'm sure everything can be improved, but I'm certainly in a very relaxed frame and looking very stylish and presentable.

    I have had alot of experience with women, laying them in many a countries. Most of the girls I have seduced have been met at work, randomly during the day, at a sport I do or through my social circle (never online).

    I had alot of success laying girls in nightclubs when I first turned 18 for a few years but I have forgotten how I got that success.

    I went out last night and I approached several girls that had given me approach signals. I was swiftly rejected by all of them, which is unusual because I don't get rejected that much usually, even with girls who haven't given me signals.

    I walked up to all of them and said, 'Hey, how's your night going?' or some variation of this. All of them quickly lost interest after this and began moving away or girl coding their friends and/or getting cockblocked by friend. It's strange, especially when they clearly move close to you, linger and give you the signals.

    For some of them, I see a random guy later who they have obviously signalled or a guy that has noticed their open body language tonguing them down or going home with them.

    My question's are:

    Am I speaking too much when I should be approaching them non-verbally with dancing, spins, hand holding etc.?

    Do you use being social at the beginning of the night in the club to gain the attention from girls you're interested in so they will signal you later in the night when they are ready to be seduced? I have been going to clubs late and not doing any socialising beforehand. Is this an issue?

    You mention that you pull many girls home within 15 mins of entering the club, so I assume you don't socialise much prior, which is why I haven't bothered to.

    I also ready you do alot of moves on the dancefloor to gain attention/approach invitations from women. This is not something I read about in your book.


    1. That's a huge wall of text. I don't think I have the time to go into this in detail, but feel free to post on my forum. Your questions seem odd, since Club Game does indeed cover them. I talk about socializing, and discuss dancing as well (in short: you don't need to be a great dancer). Maybe read the book again?

  4. I think Portlandboy may have set the record for most approaches with no lays, ever... 15,000! He spends 6-8 hours a day, every day, and does about 60 per day.
    And I thought %1 from cold approach seemed pretty brutal.

    1. This is ridiculous. I love that guys T shirt, with the print "I fuck on the first date".

    2. What... how is that even possible.

      Jesus these people are delusional...


      The first 2000 are just for practice, so have fun!

      After 2000, then you can start focusing on results." According to their "Apprentice Instructor" which I hope is just a random forum title, and not an actual Instructor.

      Why not just start looking at results after the first approach. Assuming 5 minutes per approach, not doing any introspection after 166 hours is just crazy. (No matter what you think about cold approach validity, or anything, but this is just crazy. Any other pursuit you would expect some results after 166 hours. Or even 16 hours).

      It is almost like they want them to fail. (And sell them more books and seminars). /s

    3. "Of corse, we do have an alternative to all of this. It is summed up in the injunction: 'Get a life.'" (Christopher Hitchens' classic closing line of his TV-documentary "Diana — the mourning after" from 1998)

  5. http://www.thelocal.no/20151207/more-asylum-seekers-want-to-leave-at-norways-expense

    900 gimmegrants is a low number. Wonder what the norway total is. Not high, who wants to live in that cold.

  6. Do you know about 8ch's /pol/?

  7. Here is an interesting article about women and tattoos: https://www.yahoo.com/health/tattoos-self-esteem-204016040.html

  8. This might make you stew AS:


  9. Hello,

    Lisa Ling is a reporter for CNN, a reputable American TV station. She recently reported on a bootcamp held by Vince Kelvin, in a 45 minute video:


    She interviewed one of the participants, a 47 year-old who claimed to be a virgin, before, during, and about 2 months after the bootcamp.

    The very last 2 minutes of the report shows his date with a girl he had met after the bootcamp, and she was extraordinarily pretty.

    What affect, if any, did the bootcamp have the gentlemen's "game"?

    1. The video is already gone. I don't think highly of Vince Kelvin, to put it mildly, though.

  10. Do you have an opinion about Donald Trump?

    1. What in particular? I think US politics are a bit of a joke. Whoever gets elected won't change much, considering that the choice is only between two parties that don't differ all that much from each other, despite the politics showbiz exaggerating those differences dramatically.
      I do like that Trump is not afraid to piss people off, which is an exceedingly rare quality.

  11. Just ran across this NYT video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLdLKTYNtw

    "Female Freedom Has an Expiration Date': Being 35 and Single
    An Argentine woman, documenting her relationships, begins an intimate investigation searching for love and answers: must she settle down or continue to be a free spirit in order to be happy?"

    This video is a good addendum to Sleazy's classic piece "The biggest dating mistake women make" and as one commenter suggested, the video might get an alternative title as: "Why women can't exploit men and get by on their looks after 35". So when women actually get treated like men (when they get equality) they call it "sexism". LOL

    1. That was a nice video! It just boils down to the incredible naivety, which quite a lot of better-looking women seem to have, that easy street won't ever end. So, is it that their horizon is so limited (so-called female solipsism) that they don't notice that women indeed age, or are they so deluded to believe that even though every other woman ages, they won't?

    2. "boils down to the incredible naivety, which quite a lot of better-looking women seem to have"
      Spot on Aaron.
      Remains to add that the woman in this video is a complete weirdo.
      Look at her apartment. What a mess. Nobody with a clear mind lives like that. Further she has all these video tapes of her life. What is life for if you don't live completely the experiences but instead chose to be half absent holding the camera and later watch your half-lived life again on tape when you are old? Life is exactly that: Watching your partner brush her/his teeth, both immersed in the moment. All these little things, these little moments. But no, she is more focused on getting a good shot and getting the angle right.
      Another thing is that generally people who are a bit nerdy put everything in percentages like she did. She's a nerd.
      And then the thing with the gipsy film crew lifestyle. These people are fun for a night but not fun at all for a relationship. I have seen this behaviour in hotel business and I can assure you it's disgustingly unreliable. I'm convinced she is the type of person who is constantly late and has a gazillion excuses for every single time and it's never her fault.
      Bottom line: Her beauty was her insurance against her unreliable and highly undisciplined personality. She could have been married earlier, but hey, it was just too good to cruise around and "be in the moment". Makes me sick these people. I'd even go so far and say that she is a regular consumer of marijuana - She is an artist, you know, artists do that... for creativity you know and to relax...
      Her beauty delayed what she would have had to do way before the age of 35. And that is an honest look in the mirror and a naked confrontation with herself in order to see that she, her thinking and her lifestyle are a complete fucking mess.
      That being said I'd still fuck her.Once.

  12. I have a question for Alek Novy but ofc anyone can pitch in...

    As someone who advocates social circle game, how do you suggest an introvert with niche interests starts getting regular access to hot women that are also personally compatible?

    I'm looking for a relationship and I really suck at clubbing (don't really have it in me to approach and I'm not good looking enough I think). Problem is I mostly have male friends in nerdy circles that rarely have any women involved - and if there are any, they are usually unavailable due to already having a BF or simply not being attracted to me.

  13. OMG! Did anyone see the latest "Star Wars" movie? What on earth happened? I wanted to write a lenghtly report, but then I saw a movie report by the Vatican! And as it turns out, I have nothing to add to the concluding sentence: "The seventh Star Wars movie is 'an update twisted to suit today’s tastes and a public more accustomed to sitting in front of a computer than in a cinema.'" (http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/12/21/vatican-paper-star-wars-prequels-better-than-force-awakens/)

    The villan, Kylo Ren, is a cheap copy of Severus Snape from the "Harry Potter" movies. You will instantly hate him based solely on his looks (!) alone if you have seen the J.K. Rowling movies. He does nothing that would earn him the heritage of Darth Vader.

    As for the hero, Rey, in that movie, it is the female counterpart of Wesley Gibson from the "Wanted" movie. Just pick that laser sword up (as you would in a video game, after skipping the optional training level) and you will know how to use it. Seriously, WTF? As The Last Psychiatrist once stated, the whole movie screams: "You are special." (http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/wanted_with_angelina_jolie_is.html)

    1. There's also talk about how this is another "she-quel" i.e. replacing old male characters with "new" female characters and calling it a "new" movie. (See Mad Max and upcoming Ghostbusters).

      Feminists are probably saying how empowering this Rey Catniss character is.

      But really, it's all about one thing: more money! Catering to the female audience is about more money via seats in theatres and merchandising.

      See this article about it: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/-star-wars-toys-aren-t-just-for-boys-anymore-as-rey-takes-over

      No surprise given Disney owns Star Wars.

    2. Saw the movie yesterday with a friend and agree with most of what you are saying. By the way anon, thanks for the references, specially the Last Psych blog. Very interesting.

      Researching on the web, I've read somewhere that Dysney wanted to make a movie that the fans would like, which is meant to be that it would not follow the original ideas of George Lucas. If I was a Star Wars fan then, I would seriously consider dropping that hobbie for life. I detested it with all my heart, Act I to the end scene.

      What kind of shitty movie experience was that? It made me felt like a miserable 12-year-old kid whose highest life aspirations were a new Xbox and a PornHub membership. That kind of person would find Episode VII enjoyable, and I'd understand why. The movie is mostly plain action mixed with some cheap jokes and pathetic romance, all of which rests on top of carrefully weaved politically correct messages. What is most disturbing though is that just everyone seems to be enjoying J.J. Abrams take, from dummies to film critics.

      Honestly, the George Lucas' prequels are a sublime masterpierce when compared to The Force Awakens. Episodes I-III even brought reflection upon not-so-simple issues, like efficient despotism versus sick democracy. I don't understand why people criticiced them so much. Maybe those are the same people who are now so enthusiastic about the new Disney version.

      Sorry if I offended someone in this blog. But that movie really blows.

    3. Patropi, I'm the original Anon above, not the second one who is someone else than me.

      I totally agree with you. If you want to see a decent new movie wait for "The Revenant".

  14. Would someone be able to tell me why the practice of a woman keeping her last name after marriage is so popular? Is it just a feminist thing?

    1. I'm down with a woman keeping her last name after marriage SO LONG AS upon divorce (which is likely), she has NO access or right to any alimony or support or whatever. As has been written on this blog, women stick to traditional roles and feminist roles when it benefits them. In other words, having the best of both worlds. No thanks!

  15. Hello Aaron,

    I read your book about Minimalgame. I really want to expand my social circle as much as possible.

    1. But do I understand it right, that if I go to a club, I should just running aroung and looking for Approach Invitations of the girls, instead approach randomly girls?
    2. What about if I see no Approach Invitations, maybe because their are no or I am still not recognise them, should I go home then?

    1. Hi!

      Minimal Game is for beginners. On the other hand, clubs are not suitable if you are just starting out. Your questions indicate that you lack experience, so maybe just follow the advice in Minimal Game and think about hitting on girls in clubs once you've gotten a few notches on your bedpost.


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