Tuesday, January 22, 2013

The Psychology behind DHVs

I'm always amused when a PUA shill comments on this blog and makes statements that literally make me laugh out loud. A couple of months ago I wrote a short post about a "real life DHV" that was relayed by a member of the forum. The gist was that if you have status then you don't need to demonstrate that you do because it's obvious.

I was thus quite amused when some deluded guy recently wrote the following:

You don't understand the psychology behind DHVing at all. Demonstrating Higher Value doesnt mean you have to have higher value. Obviously a person who is considered "High Status" in our society doesn't need to demonstrate higher value....it's obvious and it is demonstrated naturally. If a nerdy guy of average social status wants to bang supermodels, he has to demonstrate that his value is higher....it doesn't matter if it actually is or not. The type of guy used in my example can NOT bang supermodels consistently without utilizing DHV. There are the rare hotties out there that get turned on by low self esteem or nerdy guys but that's an exception, not the norm.

Part of me wishes that this guy is just taking the piss, but I do suspect that he is serious. The delusion is nothing but staggering. We've been discussing recently that any kind of short-term sexual interest is based upon traits that can't be faked, such as height, or simply just physical attraction. For any kind of long-term interest, however, women take other aspects of the guy into account, such as how much money he has. Of course, this can't be faked so well either.

So, how is a nerdy guy with no real-life achievements ever going to bang supermodels? He wouldn't even get access to them since they hang out in a different scene. At least last time I checked, Heidi Klum wasn't going to "hackathons" to bang out a cheap iPhone app with a bunch of her supermodel friends. Just insinuating that a nerdy guy could "consistently" bang supermodels is nothing but laughable. But, hey, with a few DHVs it might work out well. How many supermodels did Mystery, the inventor of DHVs, bang? I'd venture it's a grand total of zero. Yet there is the seduction community myth that anyone can bang any woman. It's quite astounding how gullible some men are.


  1. Ya this is very true, Brad Pitt doesn't have to DHV because he like all high status guys is a walking DHV. A nerdy guy using DHV routines will seem incongruent to a hot girl, she'll just assume he's lying like a million other guys before him. The only way a nerdy guy is going to bang a supermodel is if he's super rich, Mark Zuckerberg would have no problems. With that said most guys can't even find supermodels consistently let alone bang them, you need high status just to get in to the parties.

    Agree again that short term attraction is primarily physical attraction although money and status can be really strong amplifiers even for enhancing short term sexual interest, ie. a flashy car or being a club promoter will definitely turn some girls on.

    The main problem with the seduction community isn't the techniques, its the marketing that you can consistently date out of your league. Occasionally a guy who is a 5 may be able to land a girl who is a 7, but if he wants to play the variety game consistently he's going to have to settle for other 5's. The real way to get hotter women is improve your style, body, presence, game, lifestyle, income and status all of which contribute to what league your playing in.

    1. "although money and status can be really strong amplifiers even for enhancing short term sexual interest, ie. a flashy car or being a club promoter will definitely turn some girls on. "

      Please go to the original discussion where these subtle-distinctions were clarified. YES MONEY AND STATUS CAN AND DOES influence short-term attraction too, BUT ONLY when it's unfakeable. This is what the studies find.

      Make sense? The more fakeable a status symbol is, the less of an effect it has in the short-term.

      If you're the club manager and she KNOWS you are the club manager, then this is a hard-to-fake status feature and so it influences chicks a lot. While it is possible to fake being a manager, it's pretty hard.

      It's also hard to fake having 10 hot female friends :D So if you walk into a club with 10 hot female friends or you walk in with a few celebrity friends, THIS WILL increase SHORT-TERM-ATTRACTION of women inside that club YES... But it's hard to fake that you walked into the club with a celebrity, lol :D

      Whereas the more easily fakeable status features have less and less effect in the short-term. For example, anyone can rent an expensive car for a night, and chicks will turn their heads, but they won't fuck you that SAME NIGHT *because* of the car (if they fuck you, it's not because of the car, or at least they didn't get wetter because of the car, make sense). They might say YES to a date, with the expectation to later on check if you're really rich or just faking it. Make sense?

      Same with guys getting bottle service, yes they get more attention from chicks, but a chick will not fuck him if she wouldn't have also fucked him without the bottle-service too. Make sense? Or perhaps a chick who was on the edge of fucking him, might fuck him due to the bottle service hoping to get closer and check out if he's really rich.

      - But easily fakeable status CAN NOT create attraction in the short-term.

      - Easily fakeable status can increase INTEREST in acting on pre-existing attraction, but in modest amounts

      - Hard-to-fake status can increase actual genuine short-term attraction, and the higher it is, the more it increases even short-term attraction (think rockstar groupies).

  2. Want a good DHV? Walk into a club with 10 hot female friends. Instant DHV that INFLUENCES EVERYONE IN THE CLUB*.

    Want a good DHV? Walk into a club for free, and be seen greeting all the managers, bouncers and barmen and it INFLUENCES EVERYONE IN THE CLUB*.

    *-Contrary to a DHV technique which is performed on a single chick at a time or a group...

    You know what's ironic? IT TAKES LESS TIME to master both of these two examples of REAL DHV than it does to master the art of faking it. (and the genuine deal is 100x more powerful).

    It's normal though. Karma has it's way of butt-fucking people looking for shortcuts. If you look for shortcuts, you always end up with a worse result than if you had gone for the real deal.

  3. The nerd is delusional, drinking the kool-aid! Great post, will check out the study.

  4. DHV is not useless in my opinion. It allows the girls to spot the PUAs and to stay away from these retards :). Honestly, do they really think that Mr. Geeky-Pizza-Faced-Obese-Badly-Dressed-Small-Penis-Shitty-Job-At-Mc-Donald's-For-The-Rest-Of-His-Life is going to appear high status like Brad Pitt, Billie Joe Armstrong or Barack Obama by changing the way he talks or acts ? If you're high value, you know it, and everyone knows it, and you don't care about demonstrating it to get laid because you're probably getting laid already anyway.

    Another thing that strikes me is that if you need to demonstrate higher value, then you're probably hitting on women of (too much) higher value from the start, and you shouldn't if you want to have a fairly good success rate. I mean, if you're an average looking middle-class student, do you really think you can hit on rich supermodels in classy clubs where the beer is like $20 and have a satisfying success rate ? Why feel this need to fuck rich supermodels while you could spend time improving your looks and hit on hot middle-class college girls ? They're hot and cool too ! The answer is obvious, when your life is uninteresting, when you have no friends and no money, and you are yourself boring, you would at least need something like banging Jessica Alba to make people notice you and feeling that you are someone. That, or starting to work hard on yourself to become high status and maybe fuck girls of that caliber in the end, but many people are just lazy and retarded, they don't even see that their lifestyle is the cause of the majority of their problems.

    Also, something unrelated, but I just checked out a French PUA (oh sorry, "seduction") site called Spike Seduction and I found that :


    If anyone here speaks French be prepared for a good laugh, this page is about "written seduction", which is exactly what it seems : seducing women by changing the way you write on the Internet. I don't think it has anything to do with bedding women in real life, but hey, we never know ;).

    All is present on that page : the sales pitch (the guy makes a comparison between "seduction" (pick-up) and exams... by saying "99% of the time, the written exam precedes the oral one" (meaning that written seduction has become a PRE-REQUISITE in our society, WTF ?)), the shaming language, because he says :

    "We all spend a great part of our day typing on keyboards : on computers, telephones, etc.

    The consequence is :

    If you don't know how to seduce by the way you write,
    you are socially handicapped." => FRENCH PUA BULLSHIT AWARD 2013

    And how much does this piece of shit of a product cost ? 150 euros. And it's a video.

    PUA scam really has no boundaries. Except that in France, people prefer calling that "seduction", for several reasons (at least, that's what I think) :

    - PUA is an English term and they want to feel original ;

    - It plays on the romantic image of France (present only in films and in the minds of foreigners (the Japanese for example) by the way, because I haven't seen any difference between France and Ireland on that level) ;

    - If it works, they can say that they don't do it for sex but for romance, for the art of seduction, so they avoid saying that they're players, PUAs, horny and wanting sex more than everything else, it seems classier and more socially acceptable to some people ;

    - If it doesn't work, the same excuse is used to dismiss criticism, because if they just do it for the art of seduction, they cannot be ridiculed for not getting laid while taking seduction bootcamps (or at the very least, in their minds they can't).

    They can call their method what they want, they cite the Mystery Method as an inspiration. This fact alone is enough to dismiss the efficiency of their products and to treat them as the furry-hatted clowns they are.

    1. Yeah, Spike plays on absurd fears and he is good as sounding like he knows what he's talking about, at least for newbies. What he teaches is beyond retarded. He actually created some kind of hybrid half-PUA half-Stendahlian demi-god ideal which all his fanboys aspire to be.

      He is a funny read, definitely. I can't help but wonder how many guys bought this useless video and started typing text messages Poe-poetry style.

    2. Yeah, and he also features articles by some guy about "7 reasons why you should date an Eastern European woman" and an article giving 7 reasons not to. This kinda makes me think of Roosh.


      Even though the writing style is not bad, I think that the true colours of PUAs start showing : I know these articles are meant to be subjective, but this is more like a list of stereotypes about Russian women (and even Russia in general) than a clever insight of someone knowing the country. It's like writing an article saying that German women are more disciplined, or saying that Irish women all get wasted every night. For some of them it's true, but we can't generalize to more than 50 million women (just like Roosh can't say that all American women suck without being a complete idiot). Without ever having been to Russia, these articles don't teach me anything about the life there, it's just stereotypes. They're just stating the obvious : there are good and bad sides in a woman. I THINK WE'VE FOUND THE NEW EINSTEIN !

      It's not like a blog I know of a player who lives in Japan and truly analyses all the social game and the mentality of the girls there, which is very different, and how it affects your chances with women (especially for LTRs, actually). Here we just have what some random guy would say at any bar after a few drinks and having been on holidays in Russia.

      On the other hand, some people who know Russia posted comments saying that these articles are racist and retarded and the writer started throwing a tantrum. He's basically saying that if you hate his site then you must suck with women.

      Also, they say that looks DO matter and that she has to be interested in the first place (good), but for them it just means that you have to pass her "bar" and then you could beat a guy looking like George Clooney if you have better GAME (retarded). Of course girls don't only go after the 10/10 guys and you could "beat" a very good looking guy, but it has nothing to do with something called Game, it's a matter of approaching or not approaching and then escalating. There's no need to buy 150€ videos to know that.

    3. What is the name of the Japanese blog?

    4. Le site de Spike est plein de ce que j'appelle les "attardés brillants", c'est-à-dire des mecs qui pondent des démonstrations ultra-complexes de clichés de café du commerce. "Julien" a pondu un article sur le niveau d'intérêt où il le découpe par tranches de 10%, et son pavé de branlette aboutit à dire que t'as plus de latitude quand la nana est plus intéressée. Wow!

      Ils ont aussi un côté infantile, on dirait des gamins qu'on a habitués à penserque tout ce qu'ils disent est ultra-intelligent, et du coup, quand tu leur fais remarquer le simplisme de leurs analyses, ils pètent un câble. C'est sans doute le site le plus agressif de la communauté d'ailleurs, un mec s'était fait bannirparce qu'après avoir montré que Spike disait de la merde dans un sujet, il s'était étonné de la disparition du thread en question. Ca c'est du courage intellectuel. Stéphane Edouard a décidé un jour qu'il avait tout compris, et il arrive à convaincre des mecs pas très malins, mais de fait, ses analyses sont souvent simplistes, régulièrement fausses et très mal écrites.

      J'avais pas vu la vidéo de séduction écrite, c'est ahurissant. 150 balles pour apprendre à écrire d'une façon qui convient à Spike, quelle affaire!

    5. The Japanese blog is Gaijin Hunter : http://gaijinhunter.wordpress.com/. It's written only in French. I don't know how good-looking the guy is though, because he doesn't want to expose himself on the Internet, but if he's not exaggerating his stories, he must be at least very attractive to Japanese women or play the numbers game really hard.

      @Anonymous : Sounds like Spike is yet another version of Roosh :) he wants to be classy but he only sounds retarded and contemptuous, he also acts like a dictator where he can (i.e. his forum and website). Nice to see that people in France don't like Spike that much^^.

  5. Let's call a DHV (according to how it is taught in by the PUA's, which isn't necessarily the same as Sleazy's definition) what it really is: Bragging and/or outright lying.

    Women understand exactly what you are doing. Hot women have had guys bragging to them their whole life. Some of them simply don't care! Some girls will have sex with or date a guy even if he brags to her just because she likes him!

    When looking at the "success" of any PUA's (assuming their success with women isn't an outright lie)- the simple fact is that women will overlook a whole lot of dumb sh*t guys do if they are into him from the start and/or the want something they think they can get from the guy.

    "Yeah, he wears that goofy hat and he wouldn't shutup about the cool friends he has. But he was still cute and I just broke up with my boyfriend. Girls just gotta have fun!"

    "Yeah, he's ugly and kept talking about how sad he was about his ex-girlfriend. But he knows an actor who throws big parties in Beverly Hills and he says he can get us access!"

    Some girls will still sleep with you, even if they don't like you, respect you, or even want to see you again.

    The only time bragging works is when your bragging overlaps with her agenda. (Note: With honest, healthy self-esteem women, you blow yourself outta the water). If you start bragging about your money, women who want money will find you. If you start bragging about your connections to certain social circles or scenes, women who want in those scenes will find you. Some of them will f*ck you until they don't get what they want or find out that you can't deliver on your implied promises.

    DHV's attract gold-diggers and mercenaries while driving away honest, good women who might have initially been attracted to you, simply for who you are.

    The fact is, DHV's are wholly unnecessary (and counter-productive at worst, neutral at best.) if a guy wants to have sex, date, or especially have a relationship with a hot women with great character, attitude and personality. I (and my friends) have had experiences dating some *seriously* hot women where for months they knew practically *nothing* about me, my job, my income, my car, my real home, my last name, where I liked to go and what I liked to do in my free time, my friends, my hobbies, my ambitions or my past. All they knew (or cared about) was that they liked me and had tons of fun when they were with me.

    How does a girl know you aren't a cool guy?
    You have to talk about being a cool guy.


  6. Can a 5'5 average looking Indian guy who is willing to put in work improve to the point where he can bang hot models? if so, what steps do I need to take?


    1. Put yourself in a position where you can meet models, and make sure your lifestyle matches theirs to some extent. You might not get very far if you don't have a lot of money or are not famous.

    2. Anonymous... Quiz Question... who will lay more supermodels per year.

      1) A super-duper grandmaster PUA who has spend years sarging and is recognized as the number one PUA (by many people, pick whomever you want) BUT he only meets supermodels in the rare occasion one such supermodel happens to be walking on the street by herself, or if she's in a club and she's not surrounded by roided up security and posse

      2) A stuttering, socially awkward, but amazing and well-sought-after fashion photographer. One who spends 8-12 hours a day among fashion people and personally knows and has worked with hundreds of supermodels, and knows thousands of models by name

      (hint, most people socialize and hang-out and hook-up within their social circle WHICH HINT is ussually based on what they do, supermodels actually club, hang out with and go out with the hairstylists, stage&lighting guy, photographers and make up artists and of course the other models)

      Contrary to PUA fantasies, most hookups do not happen between strangers, most hookups happen due to proximity (people you're most often around).


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