Monday, August 16, 2010

The Fishermen Realization

A user on my forum who goes by the name of feeltheburn wrote a most insightful post with the title “The Fishermen Realization”, which deals with one of the core issues of “pickup”, which is also the least addressed one since it undermines the justification for the existence of this shady industry. You won’t find many people openly talking about it, because you couldn’t sell a “bootcamp” if you told this to people. But enough with building expectations and wetting your appetite to read this most insightful thread!

Here’s a quote from the post to set the scene. All of you can probably relate to it.

So a PUA comes back from a night out and writes a FR. You read about him going out spotting the girl across the room, moving in, surrendering to the vibe, the build up of sexual tension, about magical eye contact that charms the girl like a spell and the grand finale of him butt fucking her in her apartment.

And what actually happened was he went in a venue got blown out with 5-10 girls either directly by the girl rejecting them or indirectly via 'feeling the ground' (by hovering near her, forcing eye contact, touching them, dancing in her direction/near her etc. ) and then stumbles upon a girl that doesn’t reject him and they hook up.

I couldn’t agree more.

However, because the proponents of the seduction industry, due to their obvious financial interests, have to claim that “anyone can succeed with girls” --- but not just regular girls, you can get actresses, supermodels and strippers, too. They are all yours for the taking if you just learn some inane "routines" and dress like a harlequin!

Unlike the previous caricature, which sadly is a reality if you look at the sales pitches of Love Systems et al., a much more realistic perspective is that it’s simply the girls who are doing the choosing, which leaves us with exactly two possible outcomes:
  1. She likes you --- and therefore it doesn’t matter what you say and do
  2. She doesn’t like you --- and therefore it doesn’t matter what you say and do
There is of course a third category, the “grey zone girls”, as I call them in my free ebook “Debunking the Seduction Community”, where you can f*ck things up because the girl is only somewhat interested, but at the same time not disinterested enough in you to tell you to take a hike. This is indeed the only area where “game” plays a minor role, but it’s less important than you might think because the girl will quickly decide whether 1) or 2) is the case. Speaking from my own life and adventures, the instances where I had to actively “game” a girl for a long time were rather rare if not almost unheard of. As a side note, a prime case was the girl I wrote about in the chapter “Against considerable Resistance” in my paperback book Sleazy Stories.

But let’s not stray too far from feeltheburn’s post "The Fishermen Realization". Here’s another quote from him:
At this point of the game I really think that its all about looking good and approaching.

This is probably the most succinct summary of what it takes to get girls I have ever come across. If you are not approaching, you will have a hard time getting laid, no matter how good looking you are. Girls will hardly ever do all the work for you. Of course this doesn’t mean that all hope is lost if you are not good looking. Also, consider the fact that you are probably a lot better looking than you think you are. (And if not, then stop eating fast food and start exercising.)

Surely, companies such as Mystery Method, Love Systems, PUA Training, Real Social Dynamics rather have you shelling out thousands for dubious “in-field training” instead of telling it like it is, which would then save you a ton of money and wasted effort. Skipping the misguided and confusing theories of 99% of pickup companies and dating coaches --- to me they are nothing but a source for entertainment --- would allow you to focus on drastically improving your odds by working on what really counts.

Here is more from feeltheburn:

Good looking guys who approach a lot get laid. Bad looking guys who go approach a lot get laid but less and by girls who are less hot. As far as cold approaching is concerned, the only people that do improve are the good looking ones that read the articles and just start to approach women. The only reason they didn't get laid is because they didn't make themselves available to pussy and thats it, no magic and fairy dust and pixies, just hard cold reality. The good looking ones get regularly laid by hot girls in a year or two after being exposed to the community, the bad looking ones won't get laid regularly by them in 200+ years.

I am also starting to believe that for every good “field report” there are 129847 ones that could be written about the same person getting destroyed (rejected) by a girl and that (as long as “approach anxiety” is taken care of) seduction is a numbers game and doesn't really have any room for improvement in that regard.
I had a very similar insight some time ago, which led me to write my article “Good Good Sets vs Bad Good Sets”, because it struck me that writing field reports, while helpful when you are starting out and have some fundamental issues to fix, are pretty much rubbish once you’ve gotten a handful (or two) of girls or so.

This is the reasoning behind this drastic statement: Sometimes you have a “great interaction”, but the girl would not fuck you even if you were the only guy around, simply because there is virtually zero sexual interest from her side. However, seemingly competent guys, blind to this fact, all too often happily write up the stories of their encounters and ask, “But how could I have gotten her?”

Those reports are sometimes really painful to read, because they could be dealt with quickly by saying, “Never in your life.” Those are the “bad good sets”, which seem to trip so many guys up. On the other hand, the “good good sets” are where there was simply a logistical issue that prevented you from getting laid. Some possible reasons are: there was an attendant in the bathroom, it was cold outside, and you’ve had to work the next day. Or maybe you’ve pissed off her friend… In any case, in those instances it is possible to point out what the problem was. In the other case it’s not.

Apart from that, it’s essentially nothing but bullshit and mental masturbation.


  1. Great stuff Aaron-spot on!

    The elusive obvious.

  2. At the level I am now, I agree with the post. Problem is, years ago, I just couldn't have any kind of success even if I am very good looking.

    Like sleazy says you don't need game to get laid, you can just be social and cool, but in my case (and im pretty sure im not alone), I had ANTI-game. Things like saying "your beautiful" everyday or trying to help whenever a girl needs anything, the classic "white-knight"...
    In retrospect I believe initial attraction is indeed how you present yourself (or how hot you look), but it can quickly fades away (in minutes) if you just act like a prepubescent boy with no clue about sexuality.

  3. I fully agree, neparlepas! Initial attraction can fade very quickly, but those things can be fixed very quickly and sort themselves out more or less "naturally" as you get older. Also, I think it's a much bigger issue in Western societies, which do seem fairly feminized. I'm probably overgeneralizing now, but men from, say, Southern Europe or South America, seem to behave much differently towards women, as a result of their culture and upbringing.

  4. There was an "article" in yesterday's (Canadian) newspaper about how "guys are not flirting anymore". She, the author, explains her night out in a event for singles where she litteraly didnt get approached once. The name of the event was "kiss or die"... When she came back home the taxi driver told her "its because of feminism".
    In French theres a saying "we harvest what we sow" (literal traduction).

  5. I think it's almost funny how feminism ended up biting women in the ass. It's obvious that in countries in which feminism has a strong foothold, men act more like pussies, which is neither what women want, not what the men themselves want.

  6. What about the fact that sometimes you can just SENSE and feel women looking at you all over the place, everywhere you go.

    And sometimes, when you dont feel good and are down, women dont even notice you.

    Dont they feel more attracted to you when u feel good and you're "in the zone" ? Because thats what I have experienced this far.

  7. Hello Robert,

    I fully agree with your comment. In fact, even if you feel down, just forcing yourself to walk straight can help tremendously, and after you've changed your body language, more often than not your mood will also improve. Feeling down is also a choice, as ironic as this might sound to some people.


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