Sunday, November 3, 2013

Wannabe PUAs and Social Exclusion

One of the most fascinating aspects of "pick-up artistry" is that it is commonly men who are socially excluded who are drawn to it. Think about it, if you were the popular jock in high school who had cheerleaders falling over themselves to suck your cock, you probably wouldn't google a phrase like "how to get laid". It's fairly safe to assume that the typical guy who falls for the many snake oil salesmen in this corner of the Internet has a deficient social skills already.

This puts him at an enormous disadvantage. Not having undergone a typical socialization process, he is unable to adequately evaluate the teachings of his new "guru". I mean, if you were socially savvy and saw what guys who actually got laid did, and what they looked like, there is no chance in hell you'd believe that PUAs who look like clowns actually get girls. Gullible guys don't know that, so they don't question them. Instead, they lap up their nonsensical advice. Approaching chicks randomly, dozens a day? Sounds good to him. "Plowing" in the face of complete disinterest? Sure, he'll try it.

What prompted me to write this post was in fact a Facebook status update I found in my email inbox some days ago. Here it is:

That guy looked as if he was (easily) in his 40s. Frankly, if your goal is to get rejected instead of finding girls who might be interested in you and trying to get laid, then you don't get the point of hitting on girls. It's about getting laid and, by extension, if you so desire, find a girl for whatever kind of relationship you're interested in. Getting rejected is not the goal. Of course, if you think that getting rejected ten times a day builds some kind of useful skill, then you'll probably disagree with me.

The vicious circle is already obvious: you've got guys who were not fully integrated in society to begin with. They lap up nonsensical PUA teachings, and therefore they adopt behavior that will only alienate the people around them even more. Sure, if you live in Manhattan, you could meet lots and lots of people. You won't really connect with the transient population, though, and once you try to meet people in places where people go to meet other people, you'll realize that you're living in a relatively small world. Even in big cities it won't take too long before you start bumping into the same old faces over and over.

On a side note, I knew guys who were "hardcore" into pickup in cities with millions of people. One guy had taken off three weeks from work to hit on girls on the street. What he realized was that people have routines, and that it's not so difficult to get recognized. This is not good if you're a "PUA" who dreams of pulling girls off the street into his bedroom. Your street corner is not so different from the bar down the road. Humans are creatures of habit, and most people will just do the same thing over and over.

This now leads to a problem for people who aim to become "the biggest reject" in their city. It's not as if he'll encounter hundreds of new faces every day. There were a few instances were "PUAs" were outed on Facebook for instance. There was this dude David DeAngelo associated himself with, "Dr Paul". That guy managed to build quite a reputation in a city as big as Chicago. His reputation wasn't a good one, though. Take a bad plan and stick to it despite repeated failure, and you'll achieve the unimaginable: creeping out an entire city.

The solution would be very simple. Guys would just have to stop doing completely absurd things like approaching dozens of girls a day, or hitting on any chick in the club. If you're in a small scene then it wouldn't take long until you can't show your face anywhere anymore, but even if you're attending a busy campus university, or if you live in a big city --- if you are really stupid and try to leave a bad impression with a dozen women a day, and if you take her friends into account, easily a number two or three times as large, then you'll eventually succeed turning yourself into a pariah.

Seriously, how many women are there, even in a big city, you would be interested in? Now subtract all those who are unavailable for whatever reason, and you'll realize that it's not millions. If you now further subtract all those who are not interested in you, then you end with with a fairly small number. That number is certainly a lot smaller than the number of girls that joker wants to get rejected by.

What do you think? Let me know in the comments below!


  1. I have been saying this for a long time. It pains to me to think of some of the time I wasted reading some of this material. I can only imagine how much potential was wasted from socially inadequate but intelligent people who wasted hours of their time cold approaching and game instead of on their craft. The irony is if the spent the same amount of work enriching their life they would probably have had more women then they would have gotten learning about "game"

  2. this post of yours is kind of all over the place, but i STRONGLY agree with this portion:

    "This puts him at an enormous disadvantage. Not having undergone a typical socialization process, he is unable to adequately evaluate the teachings of his new "guru". I mean, if you were socially savvy and saw what guys who actually got laid did, and what they looked like, there is no chance in hell you'd believe that PUAs who look like clowns actually get girls. Gullible guys don't know that, so they don't question them. Instead, they lap up their nonsensical advice."

    it's a kind of double-whammy, an amplification, a trap.

    socially maladjusted guy knows nothing about about getting girls and is forced to turn to the internet pick up community. absorbs community advice about getting girls... but because he's a socially maladjusted guy who knows nothing getting girls... he can't properly evaluate that advice and accepts it as normal because he's known nothing else.

    this was the case with me and my entry into the community. as i went from a clueless weirdo to a "clued in" keyboard jockey weirdo i sponged up a lot of technical community bullshit that subsequent actual field experience showed me was false or didn't matter. after about a dozen or so notches of varying quality earned through a few hundred nighttime approaches, and hanging out with "normal" clubber friends, i've concluded that pretty much 80% of the outcome of a cold approach comes down to whether 1) she's available and 2) you meet her looks threshold.

  3. I don't know why those PUAs try everything to stand out, when in real life everyone tries to fit in?

  4. Speaking of puas that creep out an entire city:

  5. The point you made about running across the same people - I'll share a few anecdotes from my time doing street approaches in Manhattan, which is quite possibly one of the biggest places in the world to do this stuff. I approached this girl at union square, it didn't turn out very well, and I forgot about her.. Later on, I threw a house party, and that girl showed up as a friend of a guy I knew.. Needless to say, it was a slightly awkward discussion when I met her..

    Another guy I met through the local "lair" and hung out with a couple of times happened to know a work colleague..

    The weirdest one was - I went out with a couple of guys from the local lair, one of whom was extremely fucking weird and dressed really awkwardly.. we went to this lounge where I ran into a friend of mine who was entertaining some guests from out of town, including some very cute girls.. When I was chatting with these, this guy comes in totally uninvited, and creeps out one of the girls.. Since my friend saw me with these guys, it was again awkward..

    In general, I feel your circle of potential girls is very small, even in relatively big city.. I see it again and again these days.. A lot of new people who I meet these days - when they add me on facebook, more often than not, I happen to have 3-4 "mutual friends" with them,

    1. This sounds just about right. I have been living in NYC for about 10 years. Moved up here from the South. I generally do not believe in coincidences, but over the past year it has become more obvious to me what a small place New York City really is with respect to running into the same same social circles or people 1 or 2 degrees from your professional circle.

  6. The amount of stupid things PUAs will have people do IS TOO DAMN HIGH

    Also, if you tend to have anxiety at the beginning, PUAs telling you that cold-approach is THE good way and that the PUA persona is THE good one will cause you to progressively avoid more and more any situation which is not a cold-approach, or where you feel you are not perceived as the "alpha PUA".

    I believe psychologists call this passive avoidance: you are afraid not to do the right thing, idiot PUAs tell you that the only right way to be is to live a fantasy normated interaction where you have one fixed role, in one fixed setting, and voila, your brain is now acting on this information and making you avoid situations where it's not like this, progressively leading you to isolation, and having to resort more to cold-approach.

    I learned that the hard way, and the worst part is that it's hard to realize it since your brain kinda does that behind your back, so to speak.

  7. I fully agree that you can creep out your niche when you do weird stuff there. But the thing is, when you are a really good player, you gonna kill that place, too. Depending on how big the niche is and how quickly new people get into it.

    So only if you make the first girl you get, your girlfriend, you gonna save face. But if you are about to raise your numbers, you have to take in account that you gonna probably kill most of the places in the long run. But than you just have to let it refresh and take a different niche for a while.

    For example, if you attend the tango scene at your town you gonna kill it in no time. With "killing it" i mean you have multiple ex chicks running around there every time.

    1. That's a good point. However, most social circles aren't completely static, which means that plenty of new women will come in. Also, it obviously helps if you made the women feel good about themselves, which isn't too difficult if you never pretended that you were interested in anything more than sex.


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