Friday, December 30, 2011

About Models and "Models"

In a discussion of "Krauser PUA", neparlepas from my forum posted a screenshot from a video that guy posted, in which he claimed to "pick up" (getting a flaky phone number?) two Estonian "models." I've discussed "Krauser PUA" before, and I've thoroughly rebuked him on my forum, when he wanted to get kudos for banging a girl exactly once after investing a serious amount of time and money. Here's my money quote:
I have just skimmed your report of the pick-up, and I wasn't surprised that it took you quite a long time to actually bang her. You mentioned five dates with nothing happening except some finger-banging, and that you meet up with her in Turkey after a few months, while having Skype contact from December to March. And in the end you only fuck her once.
Doesn't this strike you as slightly uneconomical?
Krauser PUA didn't show his face on my forum ever again afterwards. He's probably too busy picking up "models" in former communist countries. But what's wrong with picking up "models" you may now ask? Well, here's a picture of one of the "models" Krauser PUA boasts having picked up on YouTube:

As you can readily see, the issue is simply that the label "model" is used in such an inflationary fashion that it makes Rudolf Havenstein look like a choir boy. Neparlepas analyzed it this way:

If the two girls on the Youtube video are models, then im Brad Pitt. It seems to me that when a self-described PUAs start having a modicum of success with non-fat girls sporting blond hair&blue eyes, the change is so dramatic, they are automatically labeled models. 
Indeed, "PUAs" throwing around the word "models" is nothing new. Part of it is just juvenile boasting, but the label "model" is much more problematic. When a girl tells me she's a model, I usually just laugh. Given that I have never bumped into women like Adriana Lima, I have every right to. If she can actually live off her modeling, then she's a model. If not, then not. On a side note, I can call myself an author because I have written a couple of books, and even though I am not Hemingway, I can at least show those works to people. On the other hand, what does a "model" who gets booked twice a year for two or three years of her life, until she's deemed too old, really achieve besides some ego stroking? I used to do live modeling, but I never defined myself through it, and certainly not the same way some of the "models" in New York or London do. They may do some modeling from time to time, but they certainly aren't models.

I know how to move chess pieces, but would I care calling myself a chess player? Magnus Carlsen surely is in an entire different league, and this would still be true if I had an ELO rating of 2,500. By the same logic some women dare to call themselves "models", and "PUAs" fantasize about "pulling models" (i.e. non-fat girls who don't even call themselves "models"), I could easily construct my live to be one of a superstar. After all, I hang out with "publishers", "models", "singers", "basketball players", "pianists", "painters", and "philosophers" all the time.


  1. Ummm... that girl can clearly be a model. No one said super-model. In case you're unaware, Even your top-flight celebs and super-models can look quite average when off camera, un-made-up...

    Really, what was the point of this post. Just reeks of hater-ism.

  2. My .02 cents on the matter....

    Aaron is certainly right about how guys in the "community" use the term "model." I see that word thrown about so often its ridiculous.

    On the other hand, many models who do make a living off their modeling are very average looking. I'm not necessarily talking about the Super Models who make millions a year, but rather about the models that make a middle to upper middle class living based upon their modeling. Many of these models are selected because they are so average and plain. Their plan faces make a great canvas for makeup and because of that, the girls can be made to look the part of the shoot.

    Its worth mentioning how scary some women often are without their makeup on.

  3. Most models are just skinny and average. A lot of them are not worth the trouble. I didnt care that it took him so long to bang her, but that it sounded like an uphill thing when it never should be one.

  4. Lmao woa!Now I'm Not gonna shit on Krauser's game but a lot of dudes in the community still believes that it's a plus to pick up models or bragging rights to bang strippers.

  5. hahah models in former communist countries

  6. Dizzy,
    using words such as "haterism", like "negativity", are weak attempts to discredit your opponent in a discussion if you don't have any arguments. If you are from the US, then you probably also fall for the "socialism" charge whenever there is an attempt to introduce a bill that actually benefits the people instead of corporations.

    If even top-flight models look so average, then why bother. Next time, just pull an average chick from a club and tell your friends that she could be a supermodel. ;)

    Warped Mindless,
    have you met such women? I am genuinely curious, because my view is that it is incredibly difficult to live off modelling. I have met a few models myself. One actually had a very impressive portfolio, including big advertisement campaigns (TV spots and glossy magazines) for big corporations. Yet, she said that she rather focuses on her degree. Luckily, she was quite smart, and came from a wealthy family, and not many of her peers had this option.

    Modelling is arguably like chess, meaning that if you don't belong to the top 100 in the world, you won't be able to live off it. Unlike chess players, models have a much shorter shelf life, however. My suspicion is that many of the non-supermodels simply have someone else to fund their lifestyle, either daddy or a rich husband who wants to maintain his bragging rights.

    I don't get what's so special about picking up strippers either. I can't really picture anyone (besides some retarded PUAs) who boasts about that. It's quite like someone telling you he had picked up a hooker, not just because they are often one and the same.

    If Mystery didn't have this stripper fetish, then the view that they are something to be proud of would arguably not have gotten a foothold in the "community." However, that Mystery viewed them differently can easily be explained since he was a stage performer himself.

  7. This is my biggest gripe with the way people use the word "models". Even if it may reflect the truth that she has done some serious modeling, people implicitly mean that it is some huge thing whereas most models are just average.

    The girl in this picture is a very good example. If I saw her like this, I would probably not even approach her. Most of my female friends without makeup look much better than her. I think I should start saying things like Sleazy said, "I have many girls who could be supermodels who are throwing themselves at me".

    On the discussion about Models who are plain looking - I too know a few. My understanding is that vast majority of models are very plain and average, to some who some don't look attractive at all in real-life. Having said that, most of these girls live a life which would be called lower to barely middle class. It is indeed very difficult to make say, $90-100k per year through just modeling.

  8. I suppose "middle class" is subjective depending on the area in which one lives. I believe Aaron lives in London, Not sure where Johnny lives but in my area, 35K - 55K is considered middle class. I've known a few average looking girls that have been able to make that amount with modeling.

    At that money its not an insanely glamorous lifestyle but it pays for their apartment and their low end sports car.

  9. ooops... that last comment was from me. Forgot to put my name. :P

  10. Sleazy & everyone else, according to various forums Asians are treated like rockstars in former soviet & Scandinavian countries, and even if you are a plain looking 5.9 Asian guy, you will still get the attention of tall modelesque quality women, like in places like Lithuania. LoL I have no idea where people come up with this stuff just how true is this? I just have a hard time believing some of the shit on places like Roosh.

  11. Thanks for this comment. It made my day!

    Maybe I should start checking out Roosh's forum for my daily dose of laughter.

    1. Furthermore those same people claim that with "good game" and a "deep voice" and "swag", even if you are a 5.9 plain looking Asian guy, will generally get you laid anywhere.


    Here is one of those "reports" that I mentioned, prepare to laugh in one manner or another.

    1. This report was hilarious! Asian dude travels to some Eastern European country, doesn't speak the language, enchants the hottest girls in the club (someone should tell him that they usually don't speak English that well), and he's beating up one "neo-nazi" after another. On top, random dudes walk up to him, shake his hand and thank him for visiting their country. What a hilarious troll!

      As I read his report, I was wondering at which point he was going to pull out his gun with a silencer and shot some dude straight in the head from a 100 meter distance without looking (because he'd be too busy having a Scotch and looking into the eyes of yet another model-looking girl that fell for him). And then a helicopter would come down from the sky to get him back to his home country (or his next Mission Impossible inspired adventure).

    2. Yeah I was wondering that too, everyone in Baltic countries suddenly speaks english now? How the tell do you do "well" in a "set" with a "hot local" when they don't even speak english? I thought the people that were praising him were complete idiots who couldn't figure this one out, and from everything else I've read about that place from other people, no one else had people shaking his hand.

    3. Did you see how the guy lied about studying "energy development in the Baltics"? I don't know what to think, maybe to laugh at his pathetic character or just straight up punch his face for his slimy persona, but this is the internet so I guess you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

    4. I must have missed that facet as I was laughing about the description of his glorious deeds. Well, had he really studied "in the Baltics" (why be precise if you can be vague?), he surely would have picked up the language. Had that been the case, then and all those Neo-Nazis wouldn't have attacked him, nor would the whole "tourist" angle of his story hold anymore.

  13. When I meant former Soviet countries, I meant Eastern Europe not anywhere else, sorry if that was confusing to anybody. Also Roosh just recently visited Iceland and wrote an entire book on how to bang Icelandic chicks, he has gotten quite popular and not in a good way it seems. Apparently there was a huge angry storm & backlash once knowledge of his purpose and presence was made known in the country publicly, which followed his departure from the country complete with racist remarks based on him looking like a Turk.

    1. Roosh shall enjoy his 15 minutes of fame. He won't be able to live that kind of life for much longer anyway, and if he gets too "popular" for the wrong reasons, then girls will be even less inclined to fuck him. Somewhere else I read that he hadn't gotten laid at all in Colombia for half a year or so because he came across as a disrespectful Gringo...

  14. Hello.

    Interesting discussion :)

    I have to say I generally agree with a lot that Aaron has to say, but I don't think the idea of ''if you want an easy lay, just travel to a former communist country and girls will just throw themselves at you just because you come from a country where capitalism had better prerequisites to develop'' can be considered more than wishful thinking from guys who really don't get laid much back home.

    Sometimes I get the impression that people want to compensate for their personal low self-worth with their national identity, trying to feel better about not having much going on on a personal level, creating the ''us'' and ''them'' contrast, possibly saying things like ''we are famous for or we have archived this and that'', ''what is your country know for?'' when meeting people from other places.
    It's the same thing with football fans that identify themselves with a certain club shouting ''we won!!!'' although not having contributed anything to the success of the team, besides drinking beer and wearing a shirt, anyway in case the team loses they distance themselves from the team, it's not a source of self esteem anymore.

    Although not from an former communist country myself, I know quite a lot of people from the Baltics and have been there many times and I would say that guys like Krauser PUA have a rather bad reputation, stalking for vagina on the street. Even though there will always be girls in any country that are willing to fuck you, groups of guys from the UK for example are often seen somewhat as sex tourists, that try to boast in the first 15 seconds in the conversation ''I'm from England'' thinking it's a green-card to get instant pussy. Yes, there are girls who find that interesting, but most of them will not really be that impressed since the economical situation in these countries has improved a lot since the fall of communism.
    What can get you into trouble over there are the guys that tend to get aggro with you if you fit in their stereotype of a foreigner who came with the sole purpose to ''steal'' away their women, even tough they would do the exact same thing visiting whatever other country.


    1. Thanks for this excellent comment! I do agree with your views. Since the economic situation in some of the former Soviet countries has improved dramatically, while the West is in decline, foreigners surely aren't that impressive anymore. In some areas in Thailand or the Philippines on the other hand... (as I have been told).

      You also point out that some people just behave in a completely inappropriate fashion. Especially English tourists seem to have a bad reputation for being drunk loudmouths. Sure, they are not all like that, and there are plenty of sensible guys out there. Yet, they are noticeable as groups, and for some reason they still think their country is leading an Empire that spans the globe. Those days are long past.

      There are many clubs in Berlin, for instance, that don't let in groups of tourists. The doormen at a big techno club I used to be a regular, Berghain, weren't fond of Brits at all as they were seen as wanting to get drunk at all costs. Needless to say, they weren't too welcome in many clubs.

      I've spent about two years in London, and the behavior of many males, even from the so-called "upper class" was beyond belief. During "fresher's week" you had hordes of students throwing up in the streets etc. Yes, also at UCL and LSE. British girls often indulged in binge drinking, too, and like to be loud as well. So I guess they all get what they deserve. Excessive drinking is a big problem in the UK, and certainly worse than in any other country I've visited.

    2. Hey

      I know it's not worth the time to care about the people I linked to and are being talked about in this topic. But the fact that there are organized groups (such as Roosh), dedicated to manipulating girls in developing, third world, or former Soviet bloc countries so certain egoic subsets of men can feel important or scumbag men from minority backgrounds (in this case Asians) can feel like they are part of some sort of "master race" or feel like a "rockstar" by attempting to fuck supposed higher caliber girls of those countries is disturbing & sort of disgusting. People that idolize Roosh & his self-serving women hating selfish lifetyle of fucking & making money regardless of the pejoratives & moral behavior for the purpose of "bitches" and being a "player" while ripping people off in developing & third world countries and making an intention to hate anything American so they can be "alphas", have "mad paper" & "respect from other dogs" are sort of hazardous to the running of a normal society or a normal person with morals. These people don't seem normal and come of as just pathetic & vile, I guess it's the delusions of self-loathing men that drives these things because they want to feel like they are somehow worth something.

      To me, these people seem like a more nastier,clever,intelligent,sneaky,vile & deceptive, calculative, self-serving, egoic, arrogant, formal version of those drunk English sex tourists looking to bang hot chicks in foreign countries so they can fullfill their ego's and delusionally feel they are powerful among ordinary people and like they have escaped their ordinary status in their home countries. There is something despicable & scummy about this, what these people do and what they are; but I guess no one takes notice because people are too busy dreaming about doing that & thinking how awesome those people are.

    3. Those are rather strong words. I do think that guys like Roosh and his followers are just barely above straight out sex tourism. They seem to have no interest in other countries and cultures besides pussy, which is indeed a pathetic way of life.

      If it helps: I am sure that all those wannabe Casanovas don't nearly get laid as much as they claim they do, and often, as Alek further down writes, it's just the perception that women are easier, when they are just trying to be nice. Thus, you've got some dudes traveling to Yugoslavia, hitting on some girls who don't immediately run off, and some even smile at him. Knowing some men's tendency to exaggerate, it's easy to see how they can end up making stuff up on the Internet to get praise from others dudes -- and the vicious circle continues, as more dudes are traveling to those countries, don't really get laid, but because that's a blow to their ego, they make up stuff again, etc. pp.

  15. I'm from a former-communist country. In fact, I was one of the first people to get engaged in the seduction-community out of all the ex-yugoslav countries (I founded the first lairs, websites and literally launched the seduction community in this part of the world).

    So over the years we met, sarged, workshopped all over these countries (serbia, croatia, macedonia, bosnia, etc... etc).

    Can someone explain to me if our countries are supposedly "so much easier", why do we get the exact same success rates and conversion rates doing a daygame experiment as a guy in LA and a guy in Chicago?

    I think the whole myth about pickup being easier here was borne out of two things:

    a) FALSE POSITIVES -> In certain cities and countries women are a lot nicer even if they feel zero attraction toward you. They'll just politely invent an excuse to not give you a number or now answer later, but they're very nice on approach. GOODLOOKINGLOSER talked about this on one of his posts, in that even in the USA, in different cities the chicks open very differently. Some cities they outright tell you to fuck off, others they are super duper nice.

    B) the foreigner factor -> girls act much, much, much nicer to foreigners.

    But the ACTUAL BOTTOM LINE CONVERSION RATE of approach-to-fuck is the same in our ex-communist countries as in the USA and wherever.

    1. So do the girls of these countries have a sudden fall factor for someone other then a white person? Supposedly every hottest girl there falls for guys of a minority background, (such as Asians).

    2. BTW you are getting attacked on Roosh on his main page, he made a post on game denier or something like that

    3. I just had a look at Roosh's website. While I don't think he attacks me in particular, he does raise some questionable points to which I'll soon respond to on this blog. (I have something else to say about Roosh, too.)


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