Thursday, April 11, 2013

Guest Post: Going Abroad Just to Bang 6s? -- Taking down Roosh V (by Eagle Eyes)

I have been working on a piece on Roosh V, pointing out some of the more egregious misconceptions and lies he spreads, but one of my readers just did an absolutely fabulous job, so I will replicate his work here --- and rewrite the post I had intended to publish.

There is something pathetic about boasting to strangers on the internet about your "notch count" and your "harem". There is also something pathetic about meeting up with strangers and traveling to a "unknown" part of the world...

The very nature of Roosh's website attracts social misfits. Since Roosh criticizes American women, American men who can't get laid with attractive (or in some cases any) American women are naturally going to criticize them rather than themselves...and since being misfits, long for others that feel the same. They search google with words like "American girls suck" or "American girls are sluts" and Hey Presto! A link to Roosh's website comes up. Smart, yet pretty obvious.

People who are mentally weak are afraid of change, so they are willing to blame something else other than themselves. It's pretty ironic how they like to talk about the female rationalization hamster...

I remember someone telling me if people go about their lives constantly lying (and more importantly lying to themselves) inconsistencies and contradictions will inevitably arise.

Roosh criticizes American women, says foreign women are feminine and will make men happier.

I quote:
Most guys who dabble in dating travel do it not because they can’t get laid in America, but because they want to lay better...

If being happier means being outcast by low-quality women who don’t even act like women, then so be it. South America, Southeast Asia, and Eastern Europe, here we come...

and yet, over a year later posts this:

The better looking you are, the happier you will be in America. When you consider that American women will actively chase good-looking men, I don’t see the urgent need for handsome men to hit the road in Eastern Europe or South America.

But why still not travel Roosh? I thought you said men wanted to date better? I thought American women weren't feminine? Why would "handsome" men be happier in America?

Since he apparently can no longer bang western women, what type of western women was Roosh banging before?

well, in this post Roosh says:

You’ll do what I have done in Washington DC and carry the Britannica of game on your back just to get with 7s.

So, straight from the horses mouth. Roosh maximized banging 7s (I'm going to assume he was being generous when he said 7s) and how his rationalization hamster justifies banging hogs:

At the bar I identify the top two or three girls...If the 8s don’t bite I move to the 7s. If the 7s don’t bite then it’s on to the 6s. If the 6s don’t bite then I go to the 5s to see if they are capable of giving me a boner....

Hands up if you can guess how many times Roosh ends up banging the 5s?

But that's why Roosh goes abroad right? Where being a green card...Sorry, I mean an American will have women throwing their panties at you the minute you step off the airport right? But even Roosh isn't stupid enough to believe that, so he says: you’ll do abroad is based on how well you do at home.

So Roosh was banging 6s only to go abroad and bang...foreign 6s?

May I ask...what's the point?

I don't criticize Roosh going abroad if he thinks it's "easier" but attacking American women because the hot ones give you no love is cheap.


  1. Ok I am gonna try writing one last comment since the last one was ""lost in limbo"".

    This argumentation would be very right if you had the same level of talent everywhere.
    On some unholy nights, a 7 can be the hottest girl in the club and she will give you attitude accordingly. Yet if you take that 7 put her in a club with hot girls, she won't definitely slay guys left and right.

    I live in Lyon at the moment and God knows it's a sausage fest. Girls know that, they don't see the problem. When I told them "well in Estonia, you can find 50/50 ratios, the vibe is just more chilled, people actually want to talk to each other etc..."
    -"Whew ! 50/50 ratio ? That would mean we would have to compete to get guys ? Fuck that !"

    This conversation really happened.

    It's all about the competition and the level of talent. A Danish 6 is not an American 6, because grades vary with the country.
    Yet if you can bang only 6 at home, you can still find the countries where 6 are hotter, and that's what Roosh is doing.

    Now you may argue that banging 6s with "Britannica" level of game is pathetic, and that we could agree on.

  2. Here's a question I have about the manosphere that I'd love any person who knows a lot about them to answer: Why are they so obsessed with genetic determinism? Since everything they do seems to be geared toward salvaging their egos, I'm assuming genetic determinism must have some similar ego-flattering appeal to them as well but I can't figure out what.

    1. imo Blaming everything on your genes makes it easier to stomach your own inadequacies and others' successes.

      That said, they're not entirely wrong. Genes do play a big part in your life trajectory. But on a practical, day-to-day basis, obsessing about it is almost entirely useless.

    2. I have a feeling that these guys are just lazy and massively entitled. Sorry, but if you want to bang 8s, 9s, and 10s you gotta WORK at it, and by WORK I mean go to the gym, build your wealth, dress fashionably, and have a social circle.

      Becoming wealthy and having a great body (arguably the most important factors) can take years, by the way.

      Then again, deluding yourself with "game" only takes seconds...

    3. It's an irony, but the short-cut takes longer than the actual main highway.

      Game is sold as a shortcut, but it takes longer. Developing a killer body, making a decently successful business and a high-status social circle is actually going to take less effort than going through and mastering all game theory.

      Let me state this differently. EVEN IF game actually worked, going through all of it takes LONGER than it takes to get the ACTUAL thing (hot body, status, wealth, fame, connections, bottle service).

      The irony is game is sold as a replacement shortcut for the real thing (bang 10s without having to be rich, good looking or famous), but actually becoming financially successful, good looking and popular takes LESS hours (mathematically) than working through all the different game methods.

  3. Sleazy it looks like Roosh has moved on from pussy paradise now to buying girls bottle game

    Whats funny is, this is something that Manosphere considers Beta buying bottles and VIP when it's those guys that tend to get laid with higher caliber of women then the average pua.

    1. Oh boy, how is that supposed to work out for him? It's one thing to sell PUA advice and tell some dudes that with a few "techniques" they'll get all the girls, but putting the message out there that you have to have dough will be hugely discouraging for guys who fell for PUA crap in the first place. It's not as if there are so many dudes out there who can afford bottle service every time they go out.

    2. I just read that post. It is indeed amazing that one of the biggest proponents of "game" now thinks that boring "beta" shit is the way to go - making friends, having a social circle etc.

    3. This article is hilarious, but my laughter seems to be about how tragic it is. This excerpt made me laugh out loud, but I also now feel really bad for this guy:

      I started talking to one of the club’s dancers, a privilege that the VIP access gave. She was surprisingly receptive, asking me questions and deflecting cockblocks from her fellow dancer friends. She went to dance and actually came back. I offered her a drink from Kamal’s bottle and she accepted, later inviting me to dance. I tried to touch, a suitable move after our 30 minute conversation, but she pulled back and said, “I need space.” I replied, “I’ll give you space” then walked away.

      That was really, really, alpha. Actually, there is a letter in the Greek alphabet that precedes alpha; it got invented right after this happened, because the universe needed a more faithful description of what had just transpired.

    4. Nah that was a beta move 100%. A real alpha move would have been to pour a drink out on her or give her a shove like they did at the uber-alpha manosphere Bacchanalia last year.

    5. Perhaps the community will evolve into what it should have been originally if it truly were about getting laid?

      How to become well-connected, financially independent and leverage money, popularity and status to get to easy escalation opportunities?

      I have to say that the latter (rich, popular, well-connected, buff) took me a lot less effort than all the effort I had to pour into even trying to put into practice the different game theories, and "doing sets" and all that crap.

      It's actually easier to get the real thing.

  4. Thanks Sleazy for putting up my post. However, I think my second post on that subject was better. Yes, it's true that Roosh is fact that might be one of his redeeming qualities but that's also why sussing him out is so easy...I have too much to say about Roosh...too much.

    @ LaM: "This argumentation would be very right if you had the same level of talent everywhere..."

    You've missed one of my points. I suspect Roosh was getting laid in America (gee I sure hope so...because he certainly writes alot about it), but he was NEVER in a position to criticize American women on the whole...because he was always banging LOWER QUALITY.

    For example that's like eating the worst pizzas in town and then claiming ALL pizzas are disgusting.

    "It's all about the competition and the level of talent. A Danish 6 is not an American 6, because grades vary with the country.
    Yet if you can bang only 6 at home, you can still find the countries where 6 are hotter, and that's what Roosh is doing."

    Have you read this entry?

    Some of the girls in the pictures were decent some were not. I personally don't see the difference between these girls and the girls in most major American cities...Roosh even mentions this in the link.

    I quote: "...You’re probably thinking, “Well NYC or Miami has these types of girls everywhere, too.” Great, but are banging them? Are they giving you the time of day without attitude? Are they fun to interact with? Do they know how to please you? Are you happy with them? If the answer to those questions is yes, then congratulations, you’re the man."

    I have NO TROUBLE with western women...

    "...But I know how the situation is for the average man in most American cities."

    The "average man" he is referring to isn't average at all...not everyone is as lame as him.

    I don't buy the excuse that Western girls have attitude. Initially, some of them do...but it's all an act, otherwise they'd have no friends.

    Girls in the Ukraine or Poland may behave differently...but that doesn't make them more easier to bang (Roosh even admits on the link above).

    In my next post I will describe to you (all) the type of girls Roosh hooks up with.

    1. Roosh's definition of a quality girl is :
      -is a good cook (ie, cares for her guy)
      -is good looking
      -sucks a good dick

      To me this is a basic, not a quality girl.
      Most westerners have the dick sucking part covered I give you that. Now look at me and tell me these basic girls are all over American streets. I double dare you.

      Finally, the attitude concept alone deserves a post.
      Denying that American girls have a shitty attitude just shows that you didn't travel to the right countries.

  5. Sleazy can you make another blog entry of this post?

    Roosh clearly tells us the types of girls he goes after (whether it's in American or abroad).

    In this entry Roosh shows everyone how limited he really is.

    I quote: "This Saturday night I’m going out NOT to practice my game, build my skills, make a girl laugh, entertain her friends, or have a good time. I'M GOING OUT TO FUCK. EVERYTHING I DO after the moment I leave my door will be to find a girl who is open to having sex with me that same night."

    This guy obviously watches too much porn (another thing he openly admits)...what he STILL doesn't realize (this post is quite old) is that if you go out looking specifically for sex, girls will sense this...especially the hot ones.

    I urge everyone to read these quotes from the entry. My conclusion will make sense in the me: "Your fuck funnel is the series of steps you take from the approach all the way to sex. MOST GIRLS will drop out as they go through your funnel by losing interest, declaring they have a boyfriend, flaking out, throwing up, or a multitude of other reasons that prevent sex. This means that for ever one girl you fuck, you have to approach A LOT of girls..."

    and again: "...MY GOAL is to get laid EVERY NIGHT I go out, something that can only be reached by PASSING ON GIRLS WHO ARE NOT GOOD PROSPECTS."

    Are you guys still with me?: "I have found out that GIRLS WHO WANT TO FUCK ME THE SAME NIGHT tend to give eerily similar responses to my stock answers."

    Long quotes, so I apologize. But the capitals emphasize my point...Roosh ONLY goes for girls who are DTF. This is guaranteed to give you paltry results...because the HOTTER the girl, the MORE options she has...the LESS likely she will be willing to fuck someone she just met the same night EVEN IF SHE LIKES YOU.

    Now, in my next quote think of the type of girl who would do this:
    "...I ask her if she’s getting drunk. She’ll say no and then I respond, “Well then how about I buy you ten shots of vodka and then take advantage of you?” She’ll laugh at this and say she doesn’t want ten shots of vodka. Then I joke, “How about I put a drug in your drink?” I mime the act of drugging her drink. If the girl stiffens up and says, “No drugs you rapist!” then she will not fuck me that night. If a girl laughs, and then soon leaves her drink unattended in my presence, I guarantee you I’m fucking her. It has happened to me countless times where I hit her with my drug joke and she asks me to watch her drink while she goes to the bathroom..."

    In case you missed it Roosh emphasizes the type of girl again:
    "...Think about that for a second: she’s leaving her drink unattended with a guy who just joked about raping her."

    Did you think of the type of girl yet? I bet it wasn't a 9...heck, I bet it wasn't even a 7.

    1. Hi man,

      thanks a lot for those fabulous contributions! I'll give you some more exposure on my blog tomorrow.

  6. ...Even worse in fact, is that in this post Roosh inadvertently proves that the Polish girls he banged were BIGGER "SLUTS" than the American sluts...


    This, of course is referring to the American girls he banged in the past. Girls who are "horny" (without being turned on) "...hadn't been laid in a while..." (which is him inadvertently admitting girls who are too ugly to get laid) and "...would've fucked another guy if I didn't show up..." (again the subtext here is sluts who would fuck ANYONE...these girls tend to be UGLY and are NOT the hot ones).

    So Roosh wasn't fucking the NORMAL American girls but the HOES...(which he then idiotically suggests is ALL American girls...which is born out of the frustration of not getting with the hots ones).

    But what about the Polish girls?

    I quote: "...But in Poland I created bangs. They HAD BOYFRIENDS or were ACTIVELY GETTING FUCKED BY ANOTHER GUY. They WEREN"T cruising for cock and some NEVER had a one-night stand before..."

    In Poland (apparently) girls who weren't sluts were fucking him (which was NOT happening in America)...meaning they WERE BIGGER sluts than the American girls.

    And before you start praising Roosh for banging Polish sluts in this thread

    Roosh admits...

    ...I quote:"...Even in Poland, a place I've lavished much praise on, (which he rightly would...because it was the one place where he ACTUALLY got laid) I have not hesitated to tell you of the BUTTERFACE problem. The truth is that Polish girls GET SMOKED in most Eastern European countries..."

    Translation? In America, Roosh ONLY banged ugly sluts...However, in Poland, Roosh...ONLY banged ugly sluts.

    The End.

    1. I find your use of the terms "sluts" and "hoes" problematic.

      Especially since you used it as a comment on Roosh stating he got easy lays. You'll find most anti-gamers and anti-puas will tell you these are the only lays that you CAN get easily.

      Chances are, if you lay a chick quickly, she will have banged whomever made her the offer that night. What's wrong with Roosh admitting that?

      I find gamers problematic when they're dishonest (claiming to create attraction or claiming to creating horniness where none existed). I don't see anything problematic (dishonest) with what you're quoting?

      There's nothing problematic with getting easy lays, in fact it's smart. I also heavily disagree with your notion that only "ugly" women get horny.

      The hottest women can and do also have dry spells. They're not getting offered sex left and right (contrary to nerd fantasy). Mostly because most men are afraid of making the offer, especially with hot women. They have just as many dry periods.

      One of my friends (was voted the hottest contestant on a show that airs on here)... had a long dry spell period and she kept complaining about it. She even made fun of herself and how her vagina will start developing cobwebs if she don't get laid soon. Eventually, after 4-5 months of a dry spell, this smooth natural asked her over. But yes, she had spent like 4-5 months complaining about having no sex. And she was voted online as the HOTTEST (that was the actual poll's question)

      Being horny and accepting an offer of sex, makes one neither ugly, nor a "slut", which is a kind of a contradictory term the way you use it. There's no way to win the way you've set and defined things.

    2. Amen.

      I know plenty of girls who are 7s, 8s, and 9s who have had long dry-spells. Eagle's logic is based on the typical "dick carousel" myth that PUAs like to talk about.

      Though just as a technicality, I don't think it's that the girl would sleep with anybody who made the offer--just that there are plenty of people who could have made the offer that would have been accepted.

      But of course, this is another big problem with the word "slut". Eagle assumes the following:

      Girl goes home with guy (who he may think is below her supposed standards) --> girl would have fucked "any guy" that night.

      I don't think I need to elaborate on how poor this logic is.

  7. 3agle 3yes,

    American girls are insanely fat.

    Roosh may be doing "ugly sluts" in both places, but they are most probably much thinner abroad than in the US.

    Failing to acknowledge this point is ridiculous on your behalf.

    1. Sorry, dude, but not all American girls are "insanely fat". Obesity is a problem in Europe, too, albeit to a slightly lesser degree.

    2. Aaron I think that while his languaging was problematic, there's a bit of grain of truth to what this guy is saying.

      I am often ASTOUNDED at what passes as a "hot chick" in the USA. In the USA, it seems thinness is so rare, that an ugly girl becomes "the hottie" by merely being thin and wearing makeup.

      While some americanized parts of europe also struggle with obesity, there are parts of europe (like mine for example) where being thin and made up is nothing special.

      The average girl in my country dresses and puts on pornstar-like makeup and stilleto heels just to go the store and buy bread, and yes, she's thin. In america she'd be "the hottie". Here in my country she's just "another girl trying to fit in".

      So, to an an average american who's used to average-face-but-thin-body girls being out of his league in the USA, coming to a country like mine would in fact feel like "pussy paradise" in contrast. Everything's relative after all.

  8. No, he doesn't have to acknowledge this point, because it's fucking bullshit.

    There are no shortage of the thin girls in the grand majority of American cities. Ask your average guy with an actual social life about the so-called fat epidemic in cities like New York, Chicago, Austin, LA, DC, Philly, and you'll most likely get a blank face. And don't start with that Manosphere boilerplate about how DC is so terrible. It's so terrible that every guy I know who ins't a growth-stunted pick-up artist manosphere whiner manages to get laid there just fine.

    If you need any more evidence that you're wrong, read the stuff written by your fellow manospherians Virgil Kent and Fly, Fresh and Young. They are guys who, you know, actually in American cities (not 40 miles away in some desolate exurb like majority of you dudes) and get laid, and they would agree with the above paragraph.

    Are American girls fatter than average? Statistically, yes. But there are plenty of thin girls to be had in cities, and the failure to get one is on YOU, not some political/social wrong done to you.

    1. The opposite of insanity isn't always sanity.

      I'm one of the biggest anti-gamers around and I got death threats from manospherians before it was cool to even be anti-manosphere. Google it. I was the first person to dare criticize Roosh/Roissy loudly and I was bashing the manosphere back before there was anti-manosphere.

      Yet as of late I'm seeing this anti-manospherian thing start to lose subtlety and just become "100% opposite of manoshphere = truth".

      Truth is a lot more gradual and subtle than that. Please don't lose perspective. I hate the manospherian fucktards as much (more than anyone), but don't let anger drive you to losing subtlety and fine distinctions.

      There are countries where the average woman is 20 POUNDS thinner than the average woman. That's an entire weight class.

      "Are American girls fatter than average? Statistically, yes. But there are plenty of thin girls to be had"

      Of course, that is the point, statistically speaking it's harder to obtain thinnes in one than the other. You can acknowledge that without acknowledging the entire manosphere extreme interpretation of this fact.

      Manospherian Bullshit: In the US thin girls are impossible to get, they all bitches bla bla bla

      Anti-manospherian rhetoric: You can get thing girls in the US JUST FINE, so stop WHINING YOU LOSER

      First of all, there's no need for the personalized shaming. You don't beat an extreme point but not acknowleding the grain of truth it's based on. It's an objective fact that in some countries, thinness is rarer than in others. It's also an objective fact that this makes thinness more valuable and harder to obtain.

      You do not accept the manospherian extreme notion by admitting that getting a thin girl is harder in the USA than in france. You're just looking extreme yourself by not accepting subtle distinctions.

      There is very much objective evidence (studies and research) showing that women's obtainability (her criteria for men) changes based on self-perceived rarity-assesment in terms of the enviroment/location she's in.

      You say that if you're hot, cool, social enough you will get thin girls in the USA with ease, and that's of course true. The point is the EXACT same guy will get MORE thin girls with even MORE ease in a location where thin girls are MORE plentiful.

      Accepting the one doesn't negate the other.

    2. You are on a good streak Alek. Nice to see you tuning down the extremes.

    3. Part 1 reply to Alek:

      Well, where to start with this one. Please explain the subtle distinctions I need to glean from this post:

      "American girls are insanely fat.

      Roosh may be doing "ugly sluts" in both places, but they are most probably much thinner abroad than in the US.

      Failing to acknowledge this point is ridiculous on your behalf."

      So, we have a poster telling us that it's ridiculous not to acknowledge that American girls are "insanely fat." He doesn't account for context, geographic location, race, socio-economic class, etc.

      He gets the subtlety he deserves.

      As for your point about countries where the women are 20 pounds heavier, that's something that ironically lacks distinction. In America, obesity is a major problem among black women. There's no denying that. If a black man came into this comments section and complained, I wouldn't argue with him.

      If you control for level of education, however, the situation evens out for men, something that is a huge point considering that no dude in the lower economic/education strata is going to be making sojourns into Poland and Romania, making ROK style advice worthless to them.

      -25 percent of women with a Bachelors degree are obese (21 percent white, 42 percent black, 25 percent hispanic). I don't have overweight classifications for that strata, but let's be generous and say an additional 30 percent are overweight. So around half of girls with at least a BA are at least overweight. That sounds bad, doesn't it?

      Well, men with BAs are more obese at 28 percent. So there are more fat men in the higher socio-economic strata, and considering 60 percent of BAs go to women, there are actually significantly more thin women than thin men available when controlling for degrees:

      We haven't gotten to discussing specific cities and regions yet. I'm even willing to agree with a recent Return of Kings post saying that Portland sucks for singles. It does. But there are tons of other cities where the numbers are much better.

      In addition, let's compare the data of the US to the "pussy paradise" of Poland. There are something like 93 men per 100 women, which sounds amazing until you realize that the numbers are heavily skewed because of the 65 and over population (WW2 and all). When you control for 15-64, there aren't that many more women, and there are actually MORE men for 0-14 the age group, indicating that the 18-30 age group is an even distribution at best. Men and women in poland are also equally obese at 13 percent. So in essence, so, looking at the numbers, poland doesn't really have that many more thin girls for thin guys than the US:

      That subtle enough?

    4. part 2 of reply:

      Are you kidding? Return of Kings has a guy from Austrailia writing guides to American colleges. A guy living in Switzerland writing sociological articles on American women. Shaming is exactly what they should get. Shame got all the blogs shut down after the DC meetup.

      Listen, my "40 miles away in a desolate exurb" comment might come off as personalized shaming to you, but I make it because it's true, and relevant considering the arrogance of the manosphere. If you read all the recaps of the DC meetup, there were countless dudes who drove from 20, 30, 40 miles away into the DC center. Yet these are the guys who puff their chests out about how well they know DC women. People who actually live in the DC, guys I know, have knowledge of places and scenes where picking up women is easier, and most of that scene is arranged to keep bridge-and-tunnel dudes out.

      The reason I am mean about this is because these guys talk authoritatively about the culture and girls in US cities, but their actual knowledge and experiences are painfully limited, because they don't actually live downtown or close to downtown in these places. And the few guys that do live downtown are in their early 20s and haven't put in time yet. That's a shortcoming, an impropriety; the definition of something that deserves shaming.

    5. You're overthinking this Shackleford. Let me make the same point in just three sentences.

      Manosphere Idiots: Western women are IMPOSSIBLE, you need 1000000 points of effort to bang a western hottie, whereas in other countries YOU JUST SHOW UP and you're a god and hotties line up begging you to take them!!!

      Anti-Manosphere Kneejerk Backlash: THAT'S NOT TRUE. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME! NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

      Me/Grizzly: Actually, there is SOME difference in ROI based on location. Where in some countries you have to put in a some points less effort for equal or better results.

      Again, you wrote this long-analysis, where the point was simple. You don't have to have this knee-jerk reaction to prove "ITS (essentially) THE SAME"... you're not a rooshite by admiting there is such a thing as differences between countries. Please don't be a knee-jerk intellectual who's entire intellect goes into proving the exact opposite of the ideology they hate...

      Again: You do not bring sanity by REVERSING insanity. These manosphere bozos claim there are HUGE OMG WOW differences, you don't have to in response get emotionally invested in "proving" there are no appreciable (effective) differences.

    6. Also, your thread about number of fat guys vs fat girls misses the main point I brought up.

      When something is a RARE feature in women it's valued more and brings EXTRA status (ABOVE its intrinsic value). Your entire analysis assumes weight only has instrinsic LINEAR value. But that's not the case.

      In other words, whereas a thin girl in france gets NO SPECIAL benefit for being thin, a girl in an obesetity-ladden location DOES.

      In other words, whereas a thin girl in france sees herself as nothing special (and will be a lot less picky about her OVERALL mating criteria), a thin girl in an obese location will be MORE picky. Make sense?

      If you have a city with 5% thin girls and 5% thin guys, it's not just that the thin girls want the 5% thin guys, they ALSO feel they deserve (for example) a richer, more charming, smoother guy than a thin girl in a place when thinness is nothing special.

      Make sense?

    7. I do in fact acknowledge a difference. My main point is that the difference is not significant enough to uproot your life and aim for an incredibly unrealistic lifestyle of being a vagabond in an attempt to get a slightly hotter girl in some European country, while somehow magically making a passive income while doing so. Sticking around in one place and making an impact is more rewarding. You said it above, building actual status is easier than pick-up dreams.

      Also, there's the hypocrisy angle. These guys talk all day about the greatness of free-market capitalism, and how multi-culturalism and affirmative-action dilute our competitive values. The moment the sexual market doesn't work out for them, however, they start pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

      There's also the point you made above hot girls never being approached. While girls may be more picky in certain scenarios, her pick may still never come along, leaving the door open even in scenarios where the demographics are less than ideal.

    8. My main point is that the difference is not significant enough to uproot your life and aim for an incredibly unrealistic lifestyle of being a vagabond in an attempt to get a slightly hotter girl in some European country, while somehow magically making a passive income while doing so.

      Of course...

      That goes without saying. Of course the dirty vagabond travelling around the world pestering random girls on the street is an insane strategy to adopt for a mere small boost.

      That doesn't mean there aren't wise ways of optimizing factors to your benefit. For example, if you as an american build an internet business, you can move to Serbia, where you can have a US based website, work 2 hours a day, and party 14 hours a day.

      You'd be rich by Serbian standards, and get bottle service every night of the week, and spend almost your entire day socializing, paintballing, dancing, and engaging in 10 different hobbies. (google serbian girls on youtube to get a sense of the looks of the average serbian girl walking down the street or lining the cafes).

      I do this myself, as I am rich by south-eastern european standards and I "bought my way into" high society, building a social circle of celebrities and models. I basically spend 12-14 hours socializing and spending money and buying status.

      I couldn't have done this if I was in the USA (by american standards my internet business only allows me the lifestyle of an average mcdonalds manager) :D

      And remember, getting laid is a numbers game. If there are more thin girls around, you have to spend less time outside before you run into one to hit on, so yes, living in the country of thin chicks, allows me to meet more thin girls, which allows me to bang more of them. Much better return on investment.

      Again, you seem to have this view that it's either roosh or anti-roosh... as if there's no other way to make use of geographical differences to your benefit.

    9. Interesting lifestyle, average in a rich country with average chicks or stellar in a poor country with stellar chicks.
      Isn't the ebusiness hard to manage due to the time difference ?
      What is it about ?

  9. "There is very much objective evidence (studies and research) showing that women's obtainability (her criteria for men) changes based on self-perceived rarity-assesment in terms of the enviroment/location she's in."

    Don't forget that there are plenty of unattractive and overweight men found in the US. Being thin or in great shape is pretty much a pre-requisite here if you want to get noticed by cute or hot girls. This fact helps level the playing field.

  10. I'm not excusing Roosh and his over the top exaggerated hysterics about the supposed state of obesity here in the U.S. He definitely goes over the top with the fatty-bashing. HOWEVER, I can't quite sign on to Shackleford's view that there isn't noticeable difference in attractiveness levels between the U.S. and other countries, and that American women are just as good and likeable as any other country's women. When I traveled through Europe and Canada people were visibly slimmer on average, of both genders. Also, in NY thanks to hipsterism there is a definite trend toward looking "grimy". Excess tats, a ratty, grungy appearance, no makeup, messy hair, more acceptable levels of "dumpiness." What tends to happen is that when a woman does take care of herself here and puts an effort, she feels an out of control sense of entitlement.In other countries it's normal for women to look far better yet still be much less entitled than American women.

    However I don't think the situation is as dire as Roosh and his followers portray. If you work on yourself and have boundaries and raise your own value (not just pretend to have value like game advises), you will be okay. This doesn't change the fact that the return on investment is far better in many other countries. Even many foreign women I meet, when they come here, are shocked at how entitled women here are, especially given how homely those same women would be by the standards of their home countries.

    I don't blame the American women though. I blame American men. They tolerate a lot of fatness and bitchiness and homeliness from average women, and when a woman is even slightly above average they totally worship her and feed her sense of entitlement. American women suck on average because American men suck.

    1. The dumpiness of hipster girls are exaggerated, because those are the ones who stand out the most. One tattoo here or there is the norm where I live, and in terms of dress, there are two kinds of hipster girls: the one that dresses pretty grungy, and the other kind that has a super-feminine look. They tend to want to stand out, for good and bad.

    2. "Super feminine" doesn't go hand in hand with "hipster". By definition.
      Hipsterism allows shallow people to "stand out" and feel unique, without actually having anything to back it up. Plus since they differentiate from the "mainstream" they don't actually express something that's inside them and that makes a huge different because that's an open door to crappy attitude.
      Trust me, having a Danish chick looking like a train wreck giving you attitude is something you don't want to experience.

      And by god if they happen to be hot on top of that ? They feel hotter than the rest of their hipster girlfriends and more unique than the other hot girls who "dress up to pick up boys, duh, so 1950s".

      Hipsterism creates manginas and arrogant women who should rather hit the gym and grow their hair, it deserves only a smirk from you or an occasional hate fuck.

    3. With this comment you impressively show how narrow your horizon is. Seriously, spend time in any bigger city, mingle with some people, and you'll realize that trying to reduce "hipsters" to "opposed to the mainstream" is laughable at best. In fact, people who follow the mainstream often do so because that's just what they think they have to do to "fit in", which normally implies that those people have taken the herd mentality to heart. I rather hang out with any kind of "hipster" crowd than with some dudes who mentally never left the frat/bar environment. Of course, YMMY.

    4. I am not like Roosh, I don't divide the world into hipster vs mainstream.
      I m talking about every branch of the hipster tree, like the one you can find on Hel Looks :

      Would they make good buddies and could we have interesting conversations ? Maybe, why not ? But I thought we were talking about banging chicks.

      As for me I'd rather hang around people in the grey zone. I can't stand extremes.

  11. Forget about getting laid fellas... can any one of you who denounce Roosh about the fact that he's a loser will deny the fact that women in the western part( especially in Toronto) will talk to ANY man like he's a piece of shit if he's not from the same social circle?

    You guys are blind to the truth... it's about feminism making sure that women can do ANYTHING without feeling the consequences. It's that feeling on invicibility that will create the huge egos that EVERYONE of you constantly feel when having a different view point of women.

    Fuck gettin laid, theres something bigger going on fellas. Dads who can't see their kids AND STILL paying alimony, suicide of devorcees, soldier returning from war WITH NO HOUSE AND ALL THE MONEY GONE ( wifey divorces while he was away and claim he was violent of course)

    I don't blame you guys for not talking or noticing that... because it's all around us 24/7 and you can't escape... and being blinds helps keep you sane. But I'd rather know the truth than be living in a lie fellas. Think about that

    1. Are you fucking blind you moron? Have you checked out the sidebar? Aaron links to all the major SANE MRA blogs and websites dealing with men's issues you moron. Most anti-puas are MRAs and anti-feminists you moron.

      In fact, most of the PUAs are NOT Men's issues friendly, you idiot. Go to them and tell them about issues facing men you moron. They're the ones who are feminist friendly you idiot. Both Roosh and Roissy have made fun of men's rights and caring about men's issues (alimony, suicide etc), they've accused men of bringing up issues about men as being "whiny". You fucking moron, you're adressing the wrong people you idiot.

      This isn't about who cares about men or not. It's about sane vs. insane.

      We are in the "sane men's rights organizations camp" where we realize we need to fight the injustices against men using REASON, LOGIC and sanity (not by whining that "the western bitch won't suck my cock, bohooo, poor me").

      You (the manosphere/roosh/shitiste) camp, are in the camp full of conspiracy theorists, exaggerators and wild idiocy.

      That's difference. It's not about wanting or not wanting to get laid. It's about doing it in a sane or insane way.

      It's not about recognizing or not recognizing that feminism is hurting men in the west. It's about DEALING WITH IT IN A SANE WAY.

      Make sense?

  12. The only difference between 6's and 9's is sexual preference and media propaganda.

    Most guys definition is one dressed as a hooker/stripper in a nightclub.

    The decimalisation of women is crazy, 10s don't exist, if she is cute she is a 6/7, if she gives you a boner she becomes a 8, 9s are very rare.

    I stick to a binary system 1 or 0, or fuck or no fuck.

    In the real world a 4 becomes a 8 if she dresses like a slut and uses make up.
    One guys 9, can turn into a angry drunk 30y 5.

  13. Just want to say, good job at still going to Roosh there sleazy. I am happy you did it. Also, I stopped going after him a while back because it was getting redundant, I might give it another go if I can but I am sure that you and I have pretty much ruined any reputation the guy had.


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