Tuesday, December 30, 2014

Daygame.com Aftermath (III): Idiocy has no bounds

I thought I had moved on from bashing Daygame.com (original post, follow-up 1, follow-up 2), but just as I thought I was out, they pull me back in again. It all started with a reader pointing me towards a thread on the Daygame.com forum that revealed that the camera man was indeed in on the whole thing. Not that this comes as a surprise to anybody with half a brain.

Sadly, the link to the video has been removed by Andy Yosha. It seems to have contained a statement of the hired actress that the camera man had known about the fact that she was getting pair for her "kiss close", and that Daygame.com was looking to hire "friends" of hers for other videos. The thread starts promising:
Sooo... it seems Tom's statement about the camera guy not knowing about the scam was a lie... again...

 It didn't take long until a Daygame.com moderator tried RSD-style "reframing":
I think you really need to move on from all this. Everyone else has.
I wonder how this defence would work in more serious environments, say the lawyer of a fraudster telling the judge that he really needs to move on already.

I was glad to see that not everybody swallowed the Daygame.com bullshit spin on that matter:
So just to get this straight, tom lied in his statement about the cameraman not knowing (which the actress has now exposed) and about trying to get other actresses for fake videos (which andy exposed in the text where tom asks the girl for more  friends).
That finishes it for me. I wouldnt trust him on anything now. Complete scammer in my opinion.


Honestly, it's probably the best for him to retire and shut down his business. Seriously. There are definitely much better AND more successful scammers out there like RSD. They brought this to perfection over a wider period than Tom. Why paying 100 GBP for an actress who has web presence and exposure if you just simply can pay a hooker/stripper...?! 

However, go through that thread some more and you'll invariably have to shake your head:

My opinion of Tom Torero has definitely been affected by this incident, and also by the coincidental arrival on the same day of his book. In both cases he basically reads as someone who is trying to prove something to the world to satisfy his own ego or past insecurities. 
So he's human. I am not about to start judging him too harshly when I know I have had my own flaws and difficult lessons to learn. As far as I'm concerned the only person he has hurt with this little incident is himself. I have not met him and yet his work (DATM, GFS) and his students (Sam, Martin, etc) have had a measurable positive impact on my life. 
Let's cut him some slack and see what he does from here.

How dumb can someone be? He was exposed as a fraud and scammer, which means that he doesn't deserve to be cut some slack, and neither does it show that he is human. If anything, it has shown the contrary. How human is someone who elaborately defrauded his fellow human beings?

However, PortlandPUA takes the cake with this incredible idiocy:

Honestly, my opinion has not changed at all about Tom. I still think he is an amazing teacher, someone who has no doubt changed my life.  
I'm blown away by what these trolls are doing, its just kind of weird.  
How does anything change because the video is fake? The bottom line should always be what YOU get from something, regardless of how it is achieved. If you learned from Tom, and your life has been changed in a positive way (mine has), then this incident should be meaningless. His work pushed me to change myself. He could make up all the fake videos in the world because at the end of the day I have changed, grown, become more of the man I want to be because of Tom Torero and Daygame.com 
If this fake video thing really upsets you that much, all it says to me is that you took very little action. You mentally masturbated to someone who you thought was a god and when you find out he wasn't you totally disown him. I pity that type of person. There is a whole world out there and one day you will die.  
On your deathbed will you say "Man I STILL can't believe Tom did that!!" or will you say "I was presented an idea and based on that idea I took action and found out FOR MYSELF if the idea was true."  
Daygame is real. It exists, at least to me. I can't say that statement would be true if I never found Tom's work. And that would suck.

It took three supporters until one guy saw through the nonsense PortlandPUA tried to spin:

How contemptible. You keep conflating any criticism against an individual (who DID lie, in the hopes of boosting his reputation and therefore money) as criticism against daygame in general, or the value of his advice.
Idiot #4 chimes in:
And if everyone takes note, the guys who are agreeing with what Portland PUA has stated are the guys who actually have taken action and are achieving good results. 
What's that say to you?
This reminds me of when people on mASF claimed I was "bitter" and wouldn't get laid because I dared to criticise Mystery Method bullshit and all the other nonsense in the seduction industry --- the irony was of course that I was getting laid more than all my critics put together. Not that this would have to do anything with the argument to begin with, though. Just because you're a virgin or have never approached a chick during the day doesn't mean that you can't see through bullshit. However, it is arguably a lot easier to convincingly bash PUA bullshit theories if you happen to get laid more than alleged PUA gurus, and without any kind of "game".

The one sensible guy in this thread rebuked Idiot #4 along similar lines:

It says to me (I hope I can be proved wrong) that this community is far more insular than I had thought. Why are you setting up a false-dichotomy where either a) you're willing to speak out against being duped and you've never done any approaches, or b) you have done some approaches and got this to work and therefore cannot ever criticize Tom. Fuck that! You make daygame sound like a cult. 
Jeer all you want, but I find it laughable that you cannot separate criticism of a person/behavior from criticism of daygame in general. I've done daygame long enough to know it's legit. I have no doubts about Tom being a skilled daygamer. I didn't regret a single penny spent on the bootcamp I took through Tom's company, but that doesn't for a second mean that I've given up my right to criticize what was dishonest marketing to exploit consumers. 
Note that you can very well criticise daygame and at the same time think that Tom and Daygame.com are scammers. One does not preclude the other.

Are people really that stupid, or are they simply shills:

The bottom line is that anybody who goes around wishing others ill or seeks to undermine them has their own self-esteem issues. 
If daygame doesn't work, or what Tom teaches doesn't work, it's fair to say we will notice for ourselves. 
If someone goes around trying to spread negativity with emotive language, (eg "scam", "lie", etc) about daygame or Tom I think it only says things about that person, not daygame or Tom.
Emotive language he says? Fuck off right there. As a matter of fact Tom and Daygame.com have deceived the public, and tricked them out of money. But, hey, maybe they were doing God's work?

If the camera guy knew, this goes beyond just Tom Torero. 
And Yes Daygame works blah blah blah..

I hope this was mean to be ironic.


  1. Bahaha. This is awesome. Love this statement:

    "However, it is arguably a lot easier to convincingly bash PUA bullshit theories if you happen to get laid more than alleged PUA gurus, and without any kind of "game".

    Krauser has once said Jon Matrix(from daygame.com) is one of the best daygamers in the world. He was questioned on this since Jon is not very good looking and says "I didn't say he was the best in the word results wise, I just said he was best skill wise with game"

    That's like saying, "I'm better than you at World of Warcraft. I don't have a job or a life, but I always get the highest score"

    Don't limit yourself to only laughter from Roosh Aaron, daygame.com is pretty good and I'm starting to find Krauser's blog just as funny as any comedy I've ever seen.

  2. No surprises here.

    Anyone who challenges PUA is basically given the same status as a witch in the 1600's.And the reasoning is about just as sound.

    They will say/do anything to cling to the concept of game.

    The sad thing is the comments this post describes are not unusual but rather the norm.

    "You must be bitter and angry because you tried pua and failed"

    "In person I would steal your girlfriend in 15 minutes"

    "You are a virgin who has never approached"

    "I have fucked way more girls than you"

    "You must be a fat chick/feminist"

    "You must have no life to come here and criticize PUA"

    "You are trolling"

    Everything other than "hey you might actually be right..."

    The vicious personal attacks unleashed on any "unbelievers" I think speaks about just how insecure and unsuccessful most guys who are deep into PUA really are.

  3. I have to say, Krauser should be marketing his products more as comedy than anything haha.

    I've had a bit of time off over the holidays and the content on his blog has my sides splitting. I've yet to read Roosh's advice but it seems like it could be just as comedic.

    Krauser claims San Diego is no good for daygame and there were no women around when he was there? WTF? I've never been to California before but my friend said it is loaded with hot women. I would assume the women there are calm and laid back as in Florida (not a hard place to pickup women btw). I think what he meant to say was "none were digging my game"

    I find it funny how stubborn these "gamers" are about improving yourself. Most consider it "cheating" or running "good looking guy game" if you decide to get jacked or even just slim down a bit. Maybe Krauser needs to wake up and smell the coffee: Getting shape, having good style/good grooming, having goals/passions and being able to have a decent conversation WORKS anywhere in the world! As shocking as it sounds to some, women are actually attracted to hot guys that have things going on in their lives. Think a woman ever says, "Do you know how wet I was when you were qualifying me?"

    If these idiots would smarten up they'd realize by taking care of yourself, you'll get lots of "warm invitations" throughout your day to day activities anyways. You'll no longer need to "surge the streets for 8 hours a day" in pursuit of that next "magical set"

    That's all from me about Krauser, he's just too easy of a target!

  4. I learned long ago, never trust a liar and avoid all con artists.

  5. I don't understand how anyone could trust this company anymore? If Tom was looking for her friends for more infield videos, wouldn't Andy Yosha have known about this? Presumably he was the one who had Tom the actress to line up some of her friends for other videos?

  6. Hi Aaron,

    Nice to hear the view from the other side of the fence. I had alot of respect for Tom Torrero and Andy Yosha from daygame.com but after reading this scam I really do not know what to think.

    I understand they are running a business but this is unethical behaviour

    1. I think Tom is taking a bit too much of the heat on this. Obviously, he's a fraud. That's been proven. In fact, his "daygame skills" should be in serious doubt after the revelation of the fake video.

      He says to the actress though, "We want to record another demo video and wonder if you have any friends up for doing it. We're hoping to record a "kiss close" where a guy stops a girl on the street kisses her".

      The big question here is, who is referring to when he says"we?" I would say it's very unlikely when he says "we", is he referring to the "unknown cameraman" and himself? Something tells me Mr. Yosha knows a lot more than he is admitting to. Again, Tom no longer works for daygame.com so it's easy to put all the blame on Tom.

      It's funny how Krauser is backing Torero so much over this. "So he decides to do fake a video, I've been out with him before and he's legit. He's a good daygamer. Time to move on, it's small potatoes"

      That's like saying this about a kindergarten teacher, "Dude, he only molested 2 children. Think about all the children he didn't molest. He's a been a teacher for quite a while now. Was just a little slip up. Move on already."

      Should the teacher be trusted again? Should a "daygamer" be trusted again that decided to blatantly rip people off with false claims of how money and looks don't matter?

  7. Yo, Sleazy.
    I heard about your stories of fast pulls in nightclubs and shit like that. We know what horny women can do. But still there're guy who shake their heads in disbelief, thinking that only "sluts" can do things like sexting, quick sex with unknown men and stuff like that, clinging what others would call a "madonna/whore complex".
    Well, if this doesn't shatter that absurd mindset that "women hate sex", then those men are hopeless.

    I know it's off topic, but I think it's worth a look.

  8. There is a video with Jad, where he is in Stockholm. I dont know if it can be found. But he fails miserably, gets nothing but a face book contact and some attention from giggling childish teens. The point is not that he fails, the point is that Stockholm shows that in a country where women have opportunities, earn their own money, feel entitled etc. they do not respond to "day game" . They respond to looks when they want sex, and social status, income etc. if they are interested in longer relations. They become pragmatic, business like in their interactions with men.

    But the point with day game is - if I get it right - to give less good looking men an advantage over better looking, wealthier, more secure men. The video gives, however, proof of the opposite.

    It's easier to find girls for ONS in bars, clubs - because there and then they want to fuck. They are pragmatic, particularly when they are good looking. For long term relations, walk on the streets in Stockholm and look: you will see beautful women with handsome (European) men. That's it. They dont walk with clowns who are good at game. The very idea of walking hour after hour in Stockholm for some forced conversations in a country where people are very reserved is just stupid - especially when you can pull a girl after 2-3 hours in a bar.


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