Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Pushy, ‘mature’ women, and their exploitative nature

In recent comments there was some discussions about the suitability of certain women for relationships, particularly when less experienced guys are involved. Those poor souls are seemingly targeted by women who push hard for marriage and children. In those circumstances there is a lot of disbelief involved on behalf of the guys. Less experienced guys who suddenly meet a woman are so happy that finally someone, anyone, shows interest in them that they throw all caution out of the window. Let’s further explore those dynamics.

First, let’s restate that women who push hard for marriage and children, after barely knowing the guy, tend to be a bit older, and thus are desperate to finally get a partner. They may feel that they haven’t achieved much in life, realise that their looks are fading, and that men don’t seem all that interested in them anymore, at least the more attractive, more desirable ones, whom she may or may not have gotten when she was younger.

Knowing that they won't be getting any younger, they start to shop around. Suddenly the “losers” get some attention. They may have a stable job or, in the current economy, any job at all, and from the looks of it, she doesn’t get the impression that he’s been much of a player. This makes him a prime target since he will be more easily controllable. What that poor shuck doesn’t know, though, is that girls under that kind of pressure can be quite active, to put it mildly. While she pretends to fall head over heals in love with you, you may be the second or third guy this year she has attempted to reel in. In particularly bad cases, you’re the third guy she’s currently working on.

What I’ve learnt from my encounters with more mature women was that they were incredibly pushy, and were trying to rush through typical stages of relationships. You know, using “we” when suggesting things, and therefore suggesting a unity that doesn’t exist yet or which you intend to never enter. Or introducing you to her friends, discussing renting a place together, or even inviting you to have dinner with her parents. I once met a woman who was so crazy that she told me I had to have dinner with her parents after talking to her for 30 or 40 minutes --- with no sexual contact at all involved. That's the moment when you excuse yourself, and try to remember whether you've told her any details that would make it possible for her to track you down.

Estrogen must be one hell of a drug. You can have a desperate 30 year old in bed who attempts to coax you into sex without a condom because you can trust her that she’s on the pill. (Yeah, right.) The next morning, if you didn’t manage to escape on time, she brings up plans for this and next weekend. If you panic in those situations, you’re right. Panic you should.

Sadly, a guy with little to know experience won’t know that something isn’t quite right and run into her trap: Oh, how come she is now pregnant all of a sudden? I guess she must have forgotten to take the pill (for weeks). What, why would you want to have a pre-nup? Don’t you trust her? Don’t you believe in love? How can you be so unromantic?

Women can be incredibly calculating when it comes to marriage, thanks to contemporary legal realities. One of the worst cases I was ever told was a story of a guy who let his new girlfriend move in — after three weeks! He had a nice condo, and when discussing how much rent she should pay, she suggested to cover part of his monthly mortgage payment. Broseph, do you have an inkling of rationality left in your mushy brain? Just like it’s better to be scammed for small amount of money in your youth, so that you learn to take care of yourself, and not later in life when the stakes may be higher, so is it better to have bad experiences with women when you’re young, so that they prepare you for the bigger trials that may be ahead of you, and know that you can’t blindly trust women — and people in general.

When it comes to women, and money, the naivety of inexperienced men is all-too easily exploited. In the case of inexperienced, older guys, this is a recipe for disaster. My advice, should you find yourself in a “relationship” with an older woman who pushes hard for commitment after a few weeks is to treat extremely carefully. I’d say that you should get rid of her asap, but knowing how weak inexperienced guys tend to be, this will hardly work. In his mind, he finally is "someone" because he's got a woman, no matter how plain or homely she may be. Finally he belongs.

But what is an inexperienced, weak-willed guy to do then? If you really have no balls, and don’t dare to tell her to get lost, then simply refuse any kind of formal commitment — but tell her that you don’t object to the relationship in general, provided this is the case. She will quickly move on, because she’s in a hurry. You’ll probably hear that you are “immature” and “commitment-phobic”. The “man up” cries from feminist corners in the mainstream media target exactly those men who think for themselves and just can't be convinced that taking a pushy older woman as a partner is such a great idea.


  1. Another great post!

    Luckily my father did a pretty good job warning me about this kind of shit when I was a teenager (and rising the awareness within me, that there are many Fucked up women out there, that can turn a happy man's life into a living hell).

    As a virgin in his late twenties, I'm really asking myself if I should even bother starting getting involved with girls, because of my lack of experience it is highly unlikely that I will reach my two big goals concerning girls:

    1) Getting a mentally stable, loving wife and build up and maintain a high quality relationship with her, marry her and have kids- all this in this father-hating justice system that is western society today.

    2) Since I don't meet that many women ( I hardly meet women anyway, different topic), who I can relate to on an emotional and intellectual level and since I do not want spend time with them I would love to be a master seducer like you who can get loads of instants pulls with hotties.

    Since I lack several attributes (to short, not toned enough, not outgoing enough, still a bit inhibited, fucked up moto neurons, strange voice, not in good shape, no sense of fashion, I hate dancing/clubs) I have quite some doubts, that I will ever get close to becoming this kind of stud, to put it mildly ;)

    I know I could get relationships with okay or even good(looking) girls, if I put some effort in my appearance, started going out and became more soical in general, but the question remains, will it be worth it, i.e. will I be happier with women in my life?

    I just have the suspicion, that in the long run, my relationships would turn out to be downers; the girls would get moody and homely as time went by, I would get pissed of about the whole situation etc.

    I just think, it needs an experienced "stud" like you, who really has this shit together, to end up in a happy relationship with a high quality woman.

    Joe Average will almost certainly find himself in a mess on the long run when it comes to women, even if he might get his fair share and have this highs and runs.

    Or am I to pessimistic?



    1. as far as i know sleazy wasnt always a "stud"
      plus ... you should focus just on sex, forget relationship
      because getting this quality shit is random.
      you meet girls like that randomly
      its like 5% of girls are attracted to you
      and then 5% of those maybe quality.
      lol-> 1/400 girls maybe quality.
      you need to fuck alot of girls to meet that girl.

    2. Nobody has always been a stud, obviously.

      Meeting women isn't quite so random. It largely depends on your environment, and the kind of women you target. At this point, many men already make grave mistakes because they don't dare to polarize. With proper precautions, your odds can be much better. That being said, finding a girl who is, or merely seems to be, suitable for a relationship is quite an undertaking.

  2. Alright, here goes!

    I've been lurking on your site on and off for a good few years. I'm a woman who has recently come out as gay, and prior to my current relationship - only dated men.

    Having gone through a ton of confusion about dating, etc myself, I strongly empathize with this community and the issues people are working on. I've always enjoyed your analyses and advice, as I've found it correlates with reality better than anything else I've encountered in this industry. (Also, Minimal Game is very sane and helpful.)

    However, I do take issue with a lot of the more recent posts here that strongly portray women as untrustworthy and manipulative. Are there women out there who are like this?

    Absolutely. I grew up around a lot of women whose Big Concern was Getting Married. Some of my friends have that agenda, too.

    But I've found that instilling this distrust of women (and people, in general) is fundamentally damaging. It is especially hurtful to a lot of people in this community, who already have problems with meeting women and maybe even socializing in general. While inexperienced men (and women) need to have some healthy warnings of what to expect, instilling such a strong, distrusting view of people doesn't help in the process of becoming more socially open (and thus allowing for more chances of stable relationships, friendships, sexual partners, etc to develop).

    I say that with certainty, because I grew up tightly holding those beliefs. My parents, without consciously being aware of it, gave me a huge distrust of relationships with people. So I grew up unable to fully give of myself with friends, and later - with the people I dated.

    The plus side is that I never really got hurt. I'd decided that people didn't deserve my trust, and so it was difficult to manipulate me. I always ejected when I got the first whiffs of things not going well, and so never stuck around when anything difficult (ie, feelings) got involved.

    The downside is that, this distrust in people only breeds more distrust. More a sense of isolation, of insecurity. I was never at ease with people, really. At every turn I would believe people were ultimately going to hurt others; that in every relationship, one of the partners was bound to be cheating on the other. I wonder about my own partner sometimes.

    And the truth is, this view isn't *wrong*. There are, in fact, plenty of people who manipulate others for their own agenda. But I guess my point is that you need to be very careful of the outlook you internalize.

    Just because there are older women out there that are manipulative and controlling, doesn't mean it is beneficial for you to internalize this and so believe you need to exact revenge and fuck and use other women in turn. If that's what you believe you need to do, then by all means go ahead and do it, but also take a look at how that mindset is affecting your own peace of mind. If it's making you more paranoid and agitated and closed off, then what's the use?

    What's the use of all this distrust and bitterness if it will inform all of your relationships with women; with people?

    By and large I'm still struggling this myself, but these are some observations I've come away with just by looking around at the people I know, and looking at myself.

    1. this is honestly is sweet .
      but the post is about pushy women.
      women hide their attraction,interest thus manipulating men into falling on
      women who isnt attracted on the long term.
      then they complain about this stuff.
      obviously rejections kill men. its hard. this why the distrust.
      plus plenty of women will just use men, for "doing things for them"
      money, attention, entertainment, emotional garbage hole.
      historically women survived by sucking things from men, using female
      manipulations. the distrust is quite justified.

    2. Hi Bel,

      writing here: male, mid 40ies, father and divorced.

      We live in crazy times. Before WWI both mariage and family were rock solid institutions of general/public interest. Now both are just a hobby among many others. I have personal experience of this, plus I have a shitload of confirmation of this experience through internet phora and real life observation.

      So, if a guy in his early 20ies asks me what he should aim for until 40: climbing all 8000ers mountains in the world or founding a family? My answer is clear. Go for the climbing: easier and less risky than the family thingie. That's how ruined mariage/family is. Only complete idiots try this shit.

      And to all gays/lesbos: stop effing telling heteros how their life is/ ought to be; you haven't got a clue. We are dealing with real men/women, not people pretending to be either.


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.