Friday, July 4, 2014

She is not the only girl who would want you, but run if she is

Men who lack success with women often hold questionable beliefs, as a direct consequence of their lack of experience. One example is the following comment, left on my post Let’s talk about Emotions:
Too bad there's a real possibility you dump that first girlfriend and never meet anyone again.

No, this is not a "real possibility". You can’t blame a guy who has little to no success with women to think like that, though. However, first you would have to know why that particular guy barely ever gets laid. This normally boils down to an unfortunate combination of poor presentation, little money, lack of social interactions. All of this is fairly standard. Then there are exceptions, and I’ve met a few of those men, who have their life together, dress well, are in shape, but still don’t get anywhere with girls. The issue those men have is that they don’t notice when a girl is interested, and don’t show any initiative either. I sometimes refer to this as “anti-game”.

No matter what your starting position is, and it may very well not be a particularly good one, you can improve your chances tremendously, if you work in yourself. The question is whether the potential pay-off is worth it, but that’s an entirely different issue. But let’s go back to the initial claim, and take it at face value. Indeed, if you are so desperate and so inexperienced that when you think of women you can only think of dry spells lasting years, you might be happy to take any girl who wants you. Careful you must be, young Pad wan!

Chances are that if you believe that the girl you are currently with would be the only one who would want you, you’re quite literally being set up. If you are an attractive guy who lacks self-confidence, then you are almost guaranteed to have paired up with a girl far below what you could get. Further, let’s look at the situation of the stereotypical unattractive nerd. Suddenly some girl shows great interest in you, and pushes the interaction forward. You are overjoyed that a real woman is interested in you. Finally! If anything, this should set off an alarm bell.

Pushy girls are either feeling their decreased sexual market value and getting desperate, or (this is an inclusive 'or') they are “reformed sluts” who realised that their lifestyle, while enjoyable at the moment, is not sustainable. Then there are women who very selectively chose their partners. I’m hardly the only guy who has met women like that, but I’ve met some rather peculiar ones. One woman made a point --- yes, she frequently verbalised this --- to only get involved with guys who were professionally rather well-established. Of course she would wait until she had sex with them because she had to properly check whether the guys had enough money for her plans. Eventually she found a sucker, and ‘accidentally’ got pregnant. Needless to say, she later on took him to the cleaners. From afar it all looked as if it was executed by clockwork. I bet all of you with just a little bit of experience have met, or at the very least heard of such women.

I think it is rather peculiar that we, as a society, warn young girls not to get involved with guys who will just pump and dump them — well, the warnings are there, but obviously not all girls heed the advice. But where are the societally sanctioned warnings to young men not to get involved with girls who seem to primarily have ulterior interests? Girls go gaga over the question whether the dick they’re currently riding might ‘love’ them, but as a guy you’re immediately branded a huge asshole if you question whether a woman might perceive you as a walking wallet.

Let’s be realistic, though: if women ignore you, then you can’t be very attractive. If you are attractive, but are unaware of it, or unable to take the initiative, you’re going to sell yourself short. So, what could that one girl who is oh-so into you possibly see in you that all the others don’t? Just as hot girls get pursued by many guys, so do attractive guys get plenty of chances. It doesn't mean that you would want to fuck all those girls, but the offers are definitely there. Likewise, hot girls don't want to go home with any dude who hits on them. If this is not part at all of your reality, and now suddenly one girl seems to desperately want you, then better ask yourself whether it is plausible that you are so special that only she saw something in you, but all the others didn't.


  1. Thanks for the article! Spot on as seemingly always… and I do like the rethorical question in the last paragraph… ;)

  2. women already consider 80% of all men unattractive.

    to be unattractive to women is to be normal. to be attractive to women is a sign of degeneracy.

    1. This is a non-sequitur. Being attractive to women means that you are perceived to have access to certain resources, or that you are sexually attractive. It's only a sign of degeneracy if you view lack of resources and lack of physical attractiveness as healthy normal states.

      Regarding your 80% figure: this is based on studies conducted in the context of online dating in the US. I hold the view that women who try this venue are both less attractive in general, and more interested in the state of your personal finances. Further, younger women seem underrepresented on online dating sites. Given that a good 50 % of people in the US have virtually no equity, it makes sense that financially-minded women look past them. Also, having no money won't disadvantage you if you're in an environment where most people don't have any money, but it certainly won't do you any favours if you're 40 or 50, still working a dead-end job, and are physically disintegrating.

    2. Did you ever make a blog post addressing Pareto (80/20)? If not, it might be worth looking into because this argument is a central tenet of PUA and should be argued against.

    3. I'm not sure I follow. Typical PUA teachings are far from advocating the Pareto principle. You might recall that they recommend indiscriminate approaching and collecting as many numbers as possible, hoping that one or two might turn into a "day 2". Before me I don't think anyone --- in the PUA literature at least --- pointed out that focusing on a few good leads is a much better approach.

    4. Further, feel free to let me know why the Pareto principle should be argued against.

    5. I disagree that Pareto is not part of PUA core tenets since it is what the Alpha/Beta dichotomy is derived from (e.g. implying that an arbitrarily small portion of men can be attractive to women). This can often be construed as high as 90/10 or 95/5 by the Red Pill or PUA ideology. Why should you care about this? Because it is a blatant contradiction; PUAs claim that any man can join this group simply by using their programs yet this contradicts the notion that only a few men can be "Alpha". That's why I believe it is worth examining.

    6. It is true that only a small number of men are attractive to women, just like only a small number of women are attractive to men. Most people are simply average, and as such they can't expect much. Depending on your genetic potential you can of course improve, but there are some definite upper bounds.

      I've pointed out the ineffectiveness and absurdity of common PUA beliefs, and I further drew attention to the fact that PUAs are hardly "alpha" to begin with --- neither in looks, nor in behaviour. In fact, that PUAs try so hard to appeal to some fickle notion of what women might find attractive is about as 'un-alpha' as you get.

    7. Thanks for the suggestion, Brent! At this point, though, I consider it highly unlikely that I'll be going to publish a collection of forum posts or blog comments. The forum has a search functionality, which should help you locating relevant threads and posts.

  3. Hey Aaron,

    What do you mean by "The question is whether the potential pay-off is worth it..."?

    Isn't it?...

    1. Do you have any experience with women?

    2. Not as much I'd like.

    3. i dont have exp like the guy above
      one the one hand you get horny and get erections and just want
      to fuck.
      however on the other hand it seems like a hassle, and rarely i see
      girls get attracted to me and then i have trouble approaching and or
      sometimes it catches me by surprise and later i think it better of i approached
      this thought hits me when it is too late.
      then of course there is female bs. it hits ridiculous level
      so really i am almost at a conflict here. and i dont have my life together

  4. So wait... Let's suppose that I am not selling myself short, and that I really am not all that attractive to women. Let's suppose that I'm 5'4", nerdy, geeky and don't have much experience, when it comes to women, if at all.

    Then, finally, a girl seems to really like me, claimsmto not care about height and claims to like nerds. I should dump her on the suspicion that she wants a relationship with a possibility of marriage and kids? Isn't that something that girls want from the men that they really like and value?

    You tell the generally unattractive men to dump the one girl who expresses enthusiastic interest based on the risk that something must be wrong if a woman claims to like our pathetic selves. So what will we be left with, if we listen to you? All our time and money, and no girl to fuck anf hang out with.

    1. i guess the answer will be something along the lines of
      "if she is attracted to you while most of women arent, then she isnt
      that attractive herself and probably you are better off alone."
      umm also it depends when she is pushing marriage and kids
      girls who percieve you as wallet will push you to do it instead
      of following the normal 3-4 years pattern.

  5. Well, yeah. Of course a generally unattractive guy wouldn't randomly land a model looking girl. But if such a guy is afaraid of losing the girl, she must, at the very least, be attractive enough to get him hard and get him off. And the alternative isn't a better girl, it's not having a girl attractive enough to get me off.

    As far as her pushing a guy to rush into marriage and kids, any companion who nags, acts overly pushy and is overall unpleasant would be a terrible companion who would make a guy's life worse.

    However, if the girl is generally pleasant to be around, is it such a red flag that she would be upfront about a strong desire for marriage and kids sooner rather than later? Say, the guy is 34 and the girl is 30. Wouldn't it be understandable, that in the real world, with biological realities, a girl would feel that the couple is pressed for time.

    I guess I just don't understand how wanting a family out of the relationship= not really sincerely liking the guy. Isn't it like saying that, for a guy, wanting asex out of the relationship= not sincerely liking the girl.

    1. I might reply more extensively in a separate blog post. For now, though the following has to suffice:

      1) Inexperienced guys are generally afraid to lose a girl they are with because they so seldom meet girls.

      2) If she is 30, he is 34, they have known each other for a few weeks --- and she's pushing for marriage? Dude, we're talking about her biological reality. She made a whole string of poor decisions for easily half her life. Any sane 34 year old guy should run. The craziest women can pretend to be sane for a few weeks. He'll be infinitely better off picking a 28 year-old or younger woman, and spending two years getting to know her. For him, another two years won't matter that much.

      3) A 30 year old woman wanting a relationship/kids/marriage after barely knowing the guy's name = red flag, complete wacko.

      Besides, dear female commentator, there is a hell of a lot of difference between a guy wanting to bang a girl and moving on, and a woman close to her biological expiration date desperately wanting to have a perennial meal ticket through marriage and kids. By the way, it's perfectly plausible to argue that a guy who primarily wants to get sex doesn't really care about the woman he is with, just like a woman who primarily wants children/marriage out of a relationship does not care about the guy. Maybe you should open your eyes for once, but I can perfectly understand that estrogen is clouding your vision.

  6. Hey Aaron. I'm curious where did you talk about this "Before me I don't think anyone --- in the PUA literature at least --- pointed out that focusing on a few good leads is a much better approach." I've been doing this for about 3-4 years now and in the past year or so I've arrived at a similar conclusion. I stopped approaching indiscriminately because it's mostly a waste of time and energy. Reason is the more experience I gained the more I learned about what type of women I like and what type of women like me. I learned what situations are best to approach and what situations to avoid etc. I don't just blindly roll into every single set anymore. It's just plain stupid. Now when I'm out I only talk to girls that I'm really attracted to. So I talk to them and if I get the right vibe in return I'm investing all my time and energy in that particular interaction. It just feels so natural compared to robotically approaching every dumb set even if you have no interest in the girl. I happen to have high standards so there may only be a couple of girls I would be interested in approaching the whole night. I'm tired of explaining it to the guys I go out with that if the girl isn't attracted to you there is almost nothing you can do to change that. The other night out was an example of that. My wing was approaching all night non stop. Zero success. I've only approached one girl that night, the most beautiful girl I saw that night. As soon as I saw her my feet just started walking towards her. That was only girl I talked to that night (besides general chit chat.) I took her home. My wing couldn't believe it. Anyway I enjoy reading your stuff. It's very close to what my game evolved into.


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