Wednesday, July 20, 2016

Grey Zone Girls

Today there was a new comment by "ERJAN" on my blog post An RSD Escape Story, which was a submission from C. It is an issue I have discussed before, but it is an important one, so it can't hurt to discuss it again. So, let's get right to it:
hey, check out the passage from a great book "models:attraction through honesty" by mark manson. This is by far the most discerning, exposing and explaining book about game!

i think the author gets it wrong! mark manson says there are 3 types of girls:
1.girls who are into you from start - aka green zone
2. girls who maybe into you if you show great personality and seduce them - aka grey zone
3. girls who are not into you at all - red zone.

in this book , the point of game is to bang girls from grey zone!

girls that into you from the beginning - are easy to get! the point of game is to show that you are attractive to all greyzone girls, potential leads. if your game is good you can bang more girls from this area.

ofcourse it is easy to fuck a girl who is into you - you escalate! but true game is about seducing girls who are not into you , but find you cool after you run game on them!

We've discussed Mark Manson before. Suffice it to say that there are quite a few guys among my followers who told me that it took them a while to realize that he is peddling "feel-good" advice instead of dishing out some harsh truths. Well, once you are past needing to feel good about your insufficiencies and got ready for some realistic dating advice, check out my material instead.
The comment above is of course rather poorly written. It does, however, highlight a dubious mentality among PUAs, namely that they should work on any girl that does not straight away tell them to fuck off. As a consequence, they collect numbers, and think that it's a matter of their "game" whether they can get the girl, not realizing that there is a reason the number he got was fake, that she never picks up the phone, or, if she meets up, tries to extract money from him.

Among PUAs there is also the bizarre idea that "game" is supposed to be difficult. Bang a chick who is into you --- and it supposedly doesn't count because it's a "fool's mate". Instead, it's quite likely that they can't handle the rare girl who is sexually interested in them and therefore chicken out. This is related to people who read a lot but never take any action. If a girl is into some PUA, for whatever bizarre reason, he suddenly has to take the lead, and he knows that he can now easily fuck it up. I saw PUAs literally falling apart when a girl immediately showed sexual interest, and the cause was of course that they now had to perform --- for real. In comparison, there is apparently great comfort in mechanically approaching women and never getting anywhere because this allows people to keep her deluded self-image of being Don Juans in training.

Arguably the biggest issue with "grey zone" women is that a sexually inexperienced guy, which includes the vast majority of the PUA community, is unable to tell when a girl is not at all interested but merely friendly. A "red zone" girl would tell him to fuck off, but what he perceives to be a "grey zone" girl is all-too-often just a "red zone" girl who had a good upbringing and therefore is polite. That's all there is to it. He may delude himself that he can "build rapport" via text messages, and eventually get her to realize how alpha he is, even though he is a fucking joke. In the end, he is only wasting his time.

Real "grey zone" girls are girls who are interested in you in principle, but, for whatever reason, are currently not available. Let's say she is in a relationship, or going through a breakup, or has a tough exam coming up, or has to leave for a longer business trip tomorrow, or needs to finish some B.S. project at work, or happens to be an accountant and is in the middle of "busy season", or she is having her best friend, who happens to live abroad, stay at her place for a week or so [everything drawn from personal experience]. All of those are perfectly legitimate reasons why she is currently (!) not available. Once her circumstances change, you may very well be the first in line to get a shot at getting her. A good indication that she might be a genuine "grey zone" girls is that she shows some affection/sexual interest and gives you a concrete time frame, e.g. "I'll be back in town next Friday". Stay in touch, exchange the occasional flirty message if you want, and from then on it should be rather smooths sailing. But of course there is always something that may come up. She may meet her personal 11/10, just as well as you may meet a woman you find roughly as attractive as her but who has the advantage that she is currently available --- and there is arguably something to be said for getting laid right now instead of possibly getting laid in two weeks, so you end up with a new fuck buddy and forget about that hot chick you met the other week that would come back at the end of the month. That's just life.

Viewing "grey zone" girls as "green zone" girls who are temporarily unavailable is arguably a much better guideline than fantasizing that any woman who wasn't hostile to can be turned around if only your game was better. Alas, as with so many things I write, this will be obvious to those who are successful with women, while the cucks and betas tend to think my writing is just another flavor of mental masturbation. Thus, I invite all cucks who are reading this to make some notes about the number of "grey zone" girls they met and whether they have gotten any of them. It's tough arguing with numbers. Then again, in that corner of the internet, people boast about how hard working they are and think that a few hundred cold approaches that led to one or two dates that led to nothing, not even blue balls because the chicks were fugly, is something to be proud of.

Of course, if I wanted to sell more books, I would target losers and tell them that if they only studied "game" hard enough, they could turn red zone grey zone chicks around because they just aren't sure yet whether they want to fuck them --- and because losers lack experience with women, they would not be able to figure out on their own that this statement is nonsense. Seriously, betas, how long does it take you to decide whether you would like to fuck a particular woman? Since you're not getting laid and therefore resort to porn, do you go through your porn library, which you surely have, and make a rational decision about which chick you're rubbing one out to --- or will you let your dick do the talking? Now here is what betas seem to have a hard time grasping: chicks get horny, too. It's not as if if would take her weeks of try-hard text messages to realize that some loser PUA is not 5'5" but instead 6'5", and now that she has figured that out she wants to fuck him.

What do you think? Let me know in the comments below!
(Also, if you’ve got a comment that is off-topic or only tangentially related to this article, then please post in the most recent Open Thread. Thank you.)


  1. Take a look at the richest woman in wikipedia: Lilane Bettencourt. She has everything a man or woman who could wish to have: fucking nice upbringing, daughter of Eugène Schueller, founder of L'Oreal. So much of her wealth was inherited from her father.

    You take this and compared to the world class player: George Soros and Warren Buffett, and you will see a marked difference.

    Warren Buffett's starting position isn't bad, but not as spatacular as Madame Bettencourt, Soros' however, starting almost from zero.

    And you have the audacity to claim that those women are "self-made" billionaire.

    1. This comment should have been posted on the previous article.

  2. It’s harder to transform a maybe into a yes than finding a new prospect who badly wants your product.

    All idiots have one thing in common: they don’t look on conversation rate. And than those guys ask why they work hard, but get nothing?

    Same is with game. Those guys who want to „game“ grey girls, don’t want to fuck, they want approval.

    There should be no maybe or grey in your life anymore, only yes or no - in or out. Fuck grey girl, they only waste your time.

  3. Do you know what's so funny about that guy? He mentions the red/grey/green classification of women, but that is a concept taken from Aaron Sleazy's Minimal Game. (I own Mark Manson's Models, too, and it is not mentioned in there.) Aaron makes a very convincing case in his book, and this post as well, to not bother with the grey zone. Yet, this dude waltzes in, takes Aaron's great concept and misuses it as an interpretation of Mark Manson's Models. Yes, he's right, in Models you get taught how to waste your time on grey zone chicks (again, this is 'Sleazy term', not a Mark Manson term) as if you're a stoner in high school kid who's got nothing to do.

  4. I think you're misunderstanding the psychology of the average gamer.

    I was roommates with a guy like this and I know what they are after. What they are really after is control through skill in order to reduce the frightening chaos of life and especially women. They are frightened men who fear randomness and chaos and strive for 'mastery'.

    You are basically telling guys to accept that they have no control over the proccess aside from fudamentals, and to accept the chaos.

    While you are right, it is terrifying to the kind of guy who becomes a gamer.

    My roommate had a personal fantasy of himself as this master manipulator who could dominate people through tricks and games. He would not give up this fantasy of himself for all the women in the world. He only wanted to get a woman if it was through tricks that gave him a feeling of control. He didn't get a girl for three years, then finally some average girl pretty much chose him over the internet, but he still played a bunch of tricks on her and went around fantasizing that he was a master manipulator fully in control.

    It was laughable and sad, but no amount of reality was going to get in the way of his fantasy.

    All gamers are like this. Women are secondary at best, some illusion or fantasy of control or being alpha is at the heart of game.

    As long as you thi k it is about effectively getting women, you're on the wrong track.

    1. Good comment. There was a post about this too:

  5. Funny thing is Mark Manson has article from 2013 which discourages going after the "grey zone". So the author of that book admits that going after women perceived to be in the "grey zone" is waste of time and effort.

    The article is called "Fuck yes or no". Some quotes from the article: "Most dating advice exists to “solve” this grey area for people. Say this line. Text her this. "........"These things may seem clever and exciting to some people who are stuck or frustrated. But this dating advice misses the point. If you’re in the grey area to begin with, you’ve already lost."

    If anybody wants to read the full article for some reason, here is the source:

  6. Considerable research has shown that trying to get people to change their minds on something is pretty damned hard, and it is a lot easier to try and reinforce existing attitudes and opinions. If a girl is ambivalent about you now, this might change over time if you keep running into her, and she changes her own mind over time. But the idea that can you move from the grey zone to green through your own efforts is pretty optimistic.

  7. "women are quite like men when it comes to sexual interest. Some will always be turned off by you. Others are immediately into you, and there is a third group that might be interested." - Aaron Sleazy, "Minimal Game"

  8. I have to ask,its about girls who play hard to get/play games. are those women genuine grey-zone girls? (and thus,should be avoided if you want a quick and easy lay. although honestly,unless the girl is the rare extremely high quality woman,most hard-to-gets are probably not worth the chase even for an LTR)


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